New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy

[Joe Shearer]

Sushma Swaraj in her briefing at Lok Sabha, clearly mentions Jammu & Kashmir:

Swaraj was speaking against the backdrop of recent decision to re-start the ‘Comprehensive’ dialogue with Pakistan under which various subjects, including terrorism and Jammu and Kashmir, will be discussed. - See more at: War with Pakistan not an option, talks to end terror: Sushma Swaraj | The Indian Express​

Raghvan is just beating about bush.

​

How does that contradict Raghavan? It precisely reinforces his statement. To an Indian, any Indian, Pakistan-controlled Kashmir is Jammu and Kashmir.

 

[ssethii]

You should in fact hand over the lands under your control to India, unless you argue that main force is the basis for decisions on which part of the land is to belong to whom. That might not be the best argument to use, considering the state of Pakistan at present.

what are you trying to imply?

Which fact have I twisted? You said this earlier, I asked you earlier, and you did not reply. I ask you again, which fact have I twisted?

When you claim without any data to back up your claim, i can safety call it a twisted fact or propaganda.

About the National Conference being the main political force, there is enough reason to think that it was. There was no election data anywhere else; how was the Muslim Conference the main political base in Mirpur? In the Vale, the National Conference were able to mobilise the people, and did so, not just in 1947 but in 1965 as well. NC volunteers were prepared to resist the raiders through force of arms and took to patrolling the streets in anticipation. In case you think that this was not sufficient, they won the elections in which Mohammed Abdullah came to power, not one, presumably, in which any unseen hand might be thought to have functioned.

Enough reason suggest that to you because it suits your opinion better. I would rather listen to documented facts and figures rather than individual thoughts on an account.

You say that there was democracy in Azad Kashmir, and that is how they filled their legislature and appointed a Prime Minister. Are you addressing an illiterate? From 1947/49 until 1970, there was no representative government in Azad Kashmir; so much for the use of the term Azad. A quote from the only source that is likely to be familiar to this audience:

Elections were held to the 49-seat Legislative Assembly of Azad Kashmir on July 11 to the eighth Legislative Assembly since 1970 (seventh since 1974 when Pakistan granted the region a parliamentary system with adult franchise).Azad Kashmir is categorised as an autonomous region. But critics claim titles such as Prime Minister and President for the region's elected political leadership are misleading as candidates are required to sign an affidavit of allegiance to Kashmir's accession to Pakistan.

I would be the last person on the earth to form an opinion based on Wikipedia article. I just asked your opinion which you still haven't conveyed yet.

Who is the fact-twisting hypocrite, deliberately telling a lie to make a point?

Calm down professor, don't take things too personal here.

If Muslim majority was to have been the basis, if the Two Nation Theory was to have been the basis, then we would still have a Pakistan in two segments. 1971 effectively destroyed the myth of a Muslim majority area belonging by prescriptive right to Pakistan; it doesn't.

Last time I checked Bangladesh was an Independent Muslim majority state, names don't matter here what matters is that even after the split they haven't joined India so what you teach in your institutions about TNT is no true because the ground reality proves otherwise.

It was, in fact, not the basis. The princely states were not governed by this principle; perhaps you should look up the original India Independence Act, since much of your argument is based on a specious and superficial knowledge of the facts. The princely states were given their independence, and warned that Great Britain would not recognise any of them as Dominions, and expected each of them to join either of the two Dominions of India or Pakistan, but subject to continguity. That is why Kalat was refused accession to India by India, since there was no contiguity. That, too, governed the situation in Hyderabad, and in Junagadh.

So you are impaling that Kashmir and other princely states were discouraged to remain independent and they had to join either one of the divided nations. I don't fully agree with that because British were not in power to dictate such things to princely but even for the argument sake If we say that it is true even then the Muslim majority of the state makes it a strong case for Pakistan.

You might argue that it should at least be an independent entity and not part of India at all. That too fails; Kashmir was never offered independent existence. The ruler had two choices and only two: Pakistan or India. And it was the ruler who had the choice.

The ruler who fled to save his life and disowned his people. I am sure India must have produced such documents in front of UN also.

India was the Maharaja's choice and Sheikh Abdullah's choice, and it was their choice to make, not the Pakistani government sitting in Karachi. This was made clear about all the princely states to the two Dominions. It was the delicacy of feeling of Mountbatten and of Nehru that made them ask for a plebiscite after the raiders had been driven out. The documents and the correspondence are both very clear in this regard.

Then why are we debating this after so many years.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Please read article



Drunk for sure are you.

Protest In Srinagar | Getty Images

Looks like there is an ISIS flag in the background- speaks a lot about what kind of losers these guys are. They are just asking to be detained (at best).

I don't think this image supports your point/stance as much as you think it does.

 

[Passionaire]

How does that contradict Raghavan? It precisely reinforces his statement. To an Indian, any Indian, Pakistan-controlled Kashmir is Jammu and Kashmir.

Jammu is controlled in its entirety by India. While a chunk of Kashmir is controlled by Pakistan. Correct if I am wrong.

 

[dray]

We all know Kashmir is an internationally disputed territory under UN

NO. Not anymore since 2010. Sorry!

 

[zebra7]

Jammu is controlled in its entirety by India. While a chunk of Kashmir is controlled by Pakistan. Correct if I am wrong.

You can assume 3 types of region in J&K. First is the Jammu region including Udhampur. Second is the Kashmir Region, including the Srinagar valleh, and more plainer regions or Uri and Mujaffrabad and Mirpur, third is the Ladakh Region, including Kargil, Leh, skardu. Pakistani controls the part of kashmir and some parts of Ladhakh region. India have control over the Srinagar valleh, Uri aka kashmir, whole Jammu region, and half Ladhakh region.

 

[utraash]

We all know Kashmir is an internationally disputed territory under UN.As per UN Kashmir dispute must be solved bilaterally by Pakistan and India.

The dispute is created by Pakistan... We are happy with whatever we have ......

 

[Zibago]

The dispute is created by Pakistan... We are happy with whatever we have ......

Hindus are happy muslims not so much

You can assume 3 types of region in J&K. First is the Jammu region including Udhampur. Second is the Kashmir Region, including the Srinagar valleh, and more plainer regions or Uri and Mujaffrabad and Mirpur, third is the Ladakh Region, including Kargil, Leh, skardu. Pakistani controls the part of kashmir and some parts of Ladhakh region. India have control over the Srinagar valleh, Uri aka kashmir, whole Jammu region, and half Ladhakh region.

This would be an appropriate description of Kashmir,s ethnicities

 

[zebra7]

Hindus are happy muslims not so much

Who told you that ? Bhai mere Subhay ho gayi hai Mamoo.
Few radical group of kashmiri people are not all the Muslims of the Kashmir. There are Gujjars and muslims in Ladhakh regions also. And talking of Hindus if you are reffering to the Kashmiri Pandits, then you could not diffrentiate between the Kashmiri Pandit, and Kashmiri Muslims.

This would be an appropriate description of Kashmir,s ethnicities

I was referring to the geographical conditions. Most don't realized that there is a huge series of mountaineous terrain between Jammu region and Kashmir region, and the road connecting them is very dangerous and hazzardaus. Second a road or a rail link could be easily connected with the Kashmir via plains of Uri but that will be very close to the border.

Then why are we debating this after so many years.

So that the illegal occupation of the Kashmir could be returned back, or make the status quo final and convert it into international border.

@waz @Slav Defence

Sir Pls merge all the threads together, it has become confusing to watch them all

India ONLY set to discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir: diplomat
New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy
New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy

 

[Zibago]

Who told you that ? Bhai mere Subhay ho gayi hai Mamoo.
Few radical group of kashmiri people are not all the Muslims of the Kashmir. There are Gujjars and muslims in Ladhakh regions also. And talking of Hindus if you are reffering to the Kashmiri Pandits, then you could not diffrentiate between the Kashmiri Pandit, and Kashmiri Muslims.



I was referring to the geographical conditions. Most don't realized that there is a huge series of mountaineous terrain between Jammu region and Kashmir region, and the road connecting them is very dangerous and hazzardaus. Second a road or a rail link could be easily connected with the Kashmir via plains of Uri but that will be very close to the border.



So that the illegal occupation of the Kashmir could be returned back, or make the status quo final and convert it into international border.

@waz @Slav Defence

Sir Pls merge all the threads together, it has become confusing to watch them all

India ONLY set to discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir: diplomat
New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy
New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy

Few elements?70%+ of Muslims in the valley favour independence
In Kashmir, nearly half favour independence
PKKH.tv Archives 95% of Muslims In Occupied Kashmir Want Aazadi From India » PKKH.tv Archives

Illegal occulation yes illegal occupation of India of Kashmiri land that was given to them by racist dogra ruler

 

[zebra7]

Few elements?70%+ of Muslims in the valley favour independence
In Kashmir, nearly half favour independence
PKKH.tv Archives 95% of Muslims In Occupied Kashmir Want Aazadi From India » PKKH.tv Archives

Illegal occulation yes illegal occupation of India of Kashmiri land that was given to them by racist dogra ruler

From your first link

Nearly half of the people living in the Indian and Pakistani parts of Kashmir want their disputed and divided state to become an independent country, according to a poll published by think tank Chatham House.

London-based Chatham House says the poll is the first to be conducted on both sides of the Line of Control (LoC), a military control line that has separated Indian and Pakistani controlled Kashmir since the U.N.-brokered ceasefire between two rivals in 1949.

The poll has produced startling results. On average 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favoured independence, compared with 43 percent in Indian Kashmir.

But in the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which is at the centre of the two-decades-old anti-India insurgency, between 75 percent and 95 percent support freedom both from India and Pakistan.

The scenic Himalayan region, which is divided between three nuclear-armed neighbours India, Pakistan and China, comprises of three regions — Buddhist-dominated Ladakh, Hindu-dominated Jammu and Muslim-majority Kashmir valley.

Twenty one percent of the population said they would vote for the whole of Kashmir to join India, and only 15 percent said they would vote for it to join Pakistan.

At least 80 percent of Kashmiris on both sides of LoC say that the decades-old dispute is very important to them personally.

The other findings are:
At least 43 percent on the Indian side and 19 percent on Pakistani side are concerned about human rights abuses.

A strong 80 percent on the Indian side and 66 percent on the Pakistani side say unemployment is the most significant problem facing Kashmiris.

Over a third, 36 percent in both parts believed that rebel violence would be less likely to solve the Kashmir dispute, compared with nearly a quarter, 24 percent who thought it would be more likely to.

Robert Bradnock, an associate fellow at the Chatham House think-tank in London, told BBC that the results of the polls show no single proposition for the future of Kashmir which could be put to the population, and get majority support.

“The poll offers no simple fixes but offers signposts, through which the political process, engaging India, Pakistan and wider Kashmiri representation, could move it towards resolution,” Bradnock said.


In realities these polls have no significance, because most of the polls are done in the cities. And if you go to the remote areas, people even don't know who is the chief minister or who is prime minister.

Some facts for you

1. Before cross border terrorism in the valley, J&K state was very prosperous, and happy with the lowest crime rate in the country.

2. Kashmiri gujjar Muslims are giving their services from centuries to reach their hindu brothers to their religious shrines like Vaisno Devi and Amarnath.

3. Problem with the pakistani govt to understand the ground realities are Huriyaat is not J&K governmet, and few radical people raising flag in Lal Chauk are not Kashmiri people standing for freedom, because they know if they are arrested by J&K police, they will be dealt with the law i.e small fine, and if Indian Army (who are only confined to the cantonment areas)would try to supress those demostration though force, as propaganda by Pakistani govt. their will be no wisper in the valley leave aside the voice

 

[Zibago]

From your first link

Nearly half of the people living in the Indian and Pakistani parts of Kashmir want their disputed and divided state to become an independent country, according to a poll published by think tank Chatham House.

London-based Chatham House says the poll is the first to be conducted on both sides of the Line of Control (LoC), a military control line that has separated Indian and Pakistani controlled Kashmir since the U.N.-brokered ceasefire between two rivals in 1949.

The poll has produced startling results. On average 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favoured independence, compared with 43 percent in Indian Kashmir.

But in the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which is at the centre of the two-decades-old anti-India insurgency, between 75 percent and 95 percent support freedom both from India and Pakistan.

The scenic Himalayan region, which is divided between three nuclear-armed neighbours India, Pakistan and China, comprises of three regions — Buddhist-dominated Ladakh, Hindu-dominated Jammu and Muslim-majority Kashmir valley.

Twenty one percent of the population said they would vote for the whole of Kashmir to join India, and only 15 percent said they would vote for it to join Pakistan.

At least 80 percent of Kashmiris on both sides of LoC say that the decades-old dispute is very important to them personally.

The other findings are:
At least 43 percent on the Indian side and 19 percent on Pakistani side are concerned about human rights abuses.

A strong 80 percent on the Indian side and 66 percent on the Pakistani side say unemployment is the most significant problem facing Kashmiris.

Over a third, 36 percent in both parts believed that rebel violence would be less likely to solve the Kashmir dispute, compared with nearly a quarter, 24 percent who thought it would be more likely to.

Robert Bradnock, an associate fellow at the Chatham House think-tank in London, told BBC that the results of the polls show no single proposition for the future of Kashmir which could be put to the population, and get majority support.

“The poll offers no simple fixes but offers signposts, through which the political process, engaging India, Pakistan and wider Kashmiri representation, could move it towards resolution,” Bradnock said.


In realities these polls have no significance, because most of the polls are done in the cities. And if you go to the remote areas, people even don't know who is the chief minister or who is prime minister.

Some facts for you

1. Before cross border terrorism in the valley, J&K state was very prosperous, and happy with the lowest crime rate in the country.

2. Kashmiri gujjar Muslims are giving their services from centuries to reach their hindu brothers to their religious shrines like Vaisno Devi and Amarnath.

3. Problem with the pakistani govt to understand the ground realities are Huriyaat is not J&K governmet, and few radical people raising flag in Lal Chauk are not Kashmiri people standing for freedom, because they know if they are arrested by J&K police, they will be dealt with the law i.e small fine, and if Indian Army (who are only confined to the cantonment areas)would try to supress those demostration though force, as propaganda by Pakistani govt. their will be no wisper in the valley leave aside the voice

Oh yeah so the 80% in the valley are aliens from another planet who dont want to be with india right

Small fines all folks who raised Pakistani flags were arrested some dissappear just like the stone pelters forever
Meet the young men who make Pakistani flags in India-held Kashmir - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Hoisting Pakistani flags in Indian Kashmir: When the wind blows - The Express Tribune
90,000 martyred Kashmiris and 40,000 refugees in Azad Kashmir speaks volume of soft approach of Indian government

 

[zebra7]

Oh yeah so the 80% in the valley are aliens from another planet who dont want to be with india right

Small fines all folks who raised Pakistani flags were arrested some dissappear just like the stone pelters forever
Meet the young men who make Pakistani flags in India-held Kashmir - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Hoisting Pakistani flags in Indian Kashmir: When the wind blows - The Express Tribune
90,000 martyred Kashmiris and 40,000 refugees in Azad Kashmir speaks volume of soft approach of Indian government

Enough of your rant kid

90,000 martyred according to whom and by whom Indian army or the terrorist sponsored by Pakistan.

why kashmiri pandits are refugee in their own country.

 

[Zibago]

Enough of your rant kid

90,000 martyred according to whom and by whom Indian army or the terrorist sponsored by Pakistan.

why kashmiri pandits are refugee in their own country.

40,000 is the number which is accepted even by Indian government

Why do Kashmiris have to live as slaves in their own lands?

 

[utraash]

Hindus are happy muslims not so much

Brother I know more about inhabitants of jnk than you do so plz keep your convenient judgement to yourself alone ....