NATO Forces Kill 13 Pak FC's out of a total of 27!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

US planes bomb S Waziristan​

Thursday, June 12, 2008

By Mushtaq Yusufzai

PESHAWAR: Two US planes on Wednesday evening again violated the Pakistan airspace and attacked the Zeba Mountain near Angoor Adda in the South Waziristan Agency (SWA).

Sources told this correspondent that the US forces from Afghanistan’s adjoining Paktika province fired mortar and artillery shells on South Waziristan, which fell on the mountains near Angoor Adda, the border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Official and tribal sources said two US fighters were seen flying over the Pakistani territory and bombing the border area. They said several bombs were dropped on the Zeba Mountain, which has thick forests. Residents said loud explosions were heard in the distant town of Wana, which is the regional headquarters of SWA. The bombing caused a fire in the forests.

Officials said the US troops based at Machadat camp in the adjoining Paktika province later fired mortar and artillery shells towards the Pakistani territory. However, there were no details of casualties.

In the North Waziristan Agency (NWA) too, two US spy planes were seen flying over the tribal area on Wednesday.Local residents from Miranshah told this correspondent that two unmanned aerial vehicles flew over Miranshah, Dande Darpakhel, Datta Khel, Ghulam Khan, Shawal and Spalga areas.

They said both the unmanned spy planes made flights at an extremely low altitude and terrified the local tribesmen. A senior government official in Miranshah, on condition of anonymity, told The News that they had informed the concerned officials in Peshawar about the flights of US unmanned aerial vehicles over the town.

US planes bomb S Waziristan

I've become convinced that the ineptitude characterized by the Bush Administration, when it comes to actually thinking intelligently about policy and repercussions from polices, is shared by the US military leadership in general.

Blow **** up and pulverize an opposing force - they are the men for the job!

They have no clue what to do after, except blow more **** up.

 

[muse]

Agnostic

I'm not for drastic or imprudent anything, on the other hand the honor of the unifrom and the service has requirements and these MUST be met, served hot or cold, it must be served - its just standard, at least the way I understand it.

The larger question really is US policy and Pakistani interests. Soon Bush will be history, and 20 years from now, most Americans will be deeply ashamed of this period and will not want to talk or investigate this period of time. I don't mean this incident, but the entire 8 years of shameless failure and the change they have brought to the meaning of America and American ideas.

Who ever the next President is will have to confront this issue and however this criminal cabal that now have set themselves up as representatives of the people of Pakistan will have to be held accountable. In a major test of the state's ability to defend it's interests it has failed.

In a blink the Afghan population will double, all the BS about developing Afghanistan is just that, it's complete BS. Get a topographical map and you will see how geography conspires against the ambition; communication is a freaking nightmare, unless we can alter the geography, the provinces are compartmentalized, it is really unique feature - anyway, what will be the implications for Pakistan when the Afghan population will at least double in 10 to 15 years (remember they are muslims and contraception...) and how will they be fed, how are their expectations to be met? A little education is dangerous and in Afghanistan, all education is dangerous, especially for Pakistan. Everyday the US sponsored radio stations spew anti-Pakistan poison, non-stop, their version of history paints them as a chosen, victimized by evil Pakistan, it's common understanding - and yet, you will be hard pressed to run in to run in to people who have not lived and worked in Pakistan and of course "feel" Pakistan has not done enough for them -- you really think US will want to deal with the problem -- these Afghans, I fear, will be like a new Mongol invasion -- they are people too, they have aspirations and pride in their sense of who and what they are -- in Iran they are just Mongols who cannot have access to legal papers except refugee documents that entitle them to be trash collectors and construction laborers -- and however much they hate Pakistan, these people will head for Pakistan because Pakistani society will make room for them -- and then they will change Pakistan and Pakistani society -- If I were an Indian I would worry about that eventuality even more -- and we can be sure the US has not the stomach for spending it's dwindling treasure for any other than war - in other words they will leave us holding the bag once again, like modern day viking berserkers, they will not have a meaningful effect other than negatively effecting Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The larger question really is US policy and Pakistani interests.

Indeed it is, and as I mentioned earlier, at this point their policy seems to be not much better than floundering around, lashing out and blowing things up, with puff pieces about their abilities to construct a road here and a school there, and how wonderfully adaptive they are to the local culture in sipping tea with the locals and having posters detailing the code of pashtunwali in their bases.

Wait for November, as you said, to see if the "new cabal" has anything different to offer.

 

[Tang0]

Technical note, November is just the election date. The new President will take the office on January 20th. Seems like a technicality now, but if the policy is radically different, a few months can matter alot.

 

[Tang0]

As for the notion that the US will look back at this time and moan at the destruction of their credibility and senseless losses, I doubt it. From one perspective you are right, our credibility has been even further damaged in the middle east and among Muslim nations almost certainly beyond repair. However, on the larger scale of things, so what? The "War on Terror" will claim 8-10 thousand American lives before it is over, over a period of approx. 10 or so years. Vietnam claimed over 60,000 over about 7 years. Many of those were conscripts fighting a war they didn't care about. The current U.S military is all volunteer. They signed up for it. Going even further back to Korea and WWII make this current conflict just a blip on the radar of failed U.S foreign policy.

The middle east collectively has not contributed anything more than say...Singapore to the sciences and industries over the last 50 years. (I am excluding Pakistan and Isreal) If not for the accident of Oil, the Middle east would be about as important as sub-Saharan Africa on the global scale. The only thing that will be taken from this conflict is High Oil prices, but they were going to go up in any case because of rising demand. No, US citizens will forget. It is a skill they have. The Veterans will bear their burdens quietly, and those abroad who are damaged by failed policy are to poor to have their voices heard. Europeans will snub their noses at brutish American Cowboys, but it is not like they didn't do that before the war.

In the end, American dominance of the world scene will end within the next 20-30 years. Not because of the WoT but merely because of increasing economic pressures from the huge population and industrial ability of China, and rising Oil Giant of Russia.

Course, this is all conjecture of what a western textbook will look like in 50 years or so, and not directly related to the thread at all. I just felt like I had to add the foreign perspective relating to muses comments.

In the end though, yeah, the WoT will have a significant net negative effect as far as Pakistan is concerned. Just don't get the impression that the average American cares, or that anyone will remember in 10 years. Sad, but looking at US policy over the last 50 years, and the general ignorance of it in the populace...Thats just how it goes....

 

[muse]

Tango


It's not what the US will have done to it's credibility, though it is important, in my opinion, it is more important what Us society has suffered at home.

It is a very different US society and a perhaps most may not see it yet, but it is also a very different govt - a society of fear, built on fear - and an erosion of liberty -- a society with problems telling friend from foe, indeed, these distinctions no longer exist, everyone is a foe.

The coming currency shock, now disguised as an oil shock is no accident.

Most of all I think Americans will be ashamed - the US is a fundamentally decent peoples, it offends their sense of themselves to be anything less - and once it awakens from this stupor, well... this just is not the US of the majority of Americans self image.

About middle east and it's contribution and the consumption of American lives and treasure in effort to mould the Muslim world in some image of itself, it is just delusion, and a much impoverished US and all the people of the world who see in it inspiration, need not have learnt so expensive a lesson

 

[Flintlock]

In a blink the Afghan population will double, all the BS about developing Afghanistan is just that, it's complete BS. Get a topographical map and you will see how geography conspires against the ambition; communication is a freaking nightmare, unless we can alter the geography, the provinces are compartmentalized, it is really unique feature

muse, there is a reason why Afghanistan needs to be developed, irrespective of how difficult the task may seem.

The world cannot move on with vast populations stuck in the middle ages. It undermines human progress.
Unless we can find a way to feed Afghans and keep them contented, terrorism will continue to thrive in these lawless areas and threaten civilization.

The 21st century has shown that we don't even need great roads or physical contact in order to build an economy. What we need is a paradigm shift in our thought processes.

- anyway, what will be the implications for Pakistan when the Afghan population will at least double in 10 to 15 years (remember they are muslims and contraception...) and how will they be fed, how are their expectations to be met? A little education is dangerous and in Afghanistan, all education is dangerous, especially for Pakistan.

How exactly is it safer to keep Afghans illiterate and uneducated? It is not possible. Sooner or later some of them will realize that their lives suck and they will rebel.
What you are advocating is impossible. We cannot have islands of lawlessness in the modern world where everything does. Pakistan will suffer forever if this is allowed to fester.

Everyday the US sponsored radio stations spew anti-Pakistan poison, non-stop, their version of history paints them as a chosen, victimized by evil Pakistan, it's common understanding - and yet, you will be hard pressed to run in to run in to people who have not lived and worked in Pakistan and of course "feel" Pakistan has not done enough for them -- you really think US will want to deal with the problem -- these Afghans, I fear, will be like a new Mongol invasion -- they are people too, they have aspirations and pride in their sense of who and what they are -- in Iran they are just Mongols who cannot have access to legal papers except refugee documents that entitle them to be trash collectors and construction laborers -- and however much they hate Pakistan, these people will head for Pakistan because Pakistani society will make room for them -- and then they will change Pakistan and Pakistani society -- If I were an Indian I would worry about that eventuality even more -- and we can be sure the US has not the stomach for spending it's dwindling treasure for any other than war - in other words they will leave us holding the bag once again, like modern day viking berserkers, they will not have a meaningful effect other than negatively effecting Pakistan.

Afghans will continue to migrate into Pakistan as long as their country offers them nothing. Migrations have happened throughout history, and we know that there is nothing we can do about it unless people are kept happy where they are.
The only viable option is for Pak and US army to stick to their guns and somehow improve living conditions in Afghanistan.
There is no second option.

Also, you guys must find a way to secure the western borders, whatever it takes, cede territory, or occupy Afghan territory. It will take a lot of resolve and it will probably break a great many egos.

 

[Awesome]

The US is claiming that it was fired upon by the FC and it informed Pakistan that its going to attack.

And Pakistan did nothing?

The only answer is to deny them airspace rights and then let them beg for us for a time. We'll reopen it but at least they'd know there are consequences.

Pakistan army informed of Mohmand operation: US

By Anwar Iqbal

WASHINGTON, June 11: The United States said on Wednesday that a US military operation which killed 11 Pakistani soldiers was first coordinated with the Pakistan Army.

Also on Wednesday, a media report quoted Pakistan’s envoy to Washington as saying that US leaders had warned Islamabad that if the United States suffered an attack that was traced back to Pakistan Washington would retaliate.

“Those (statements) have been made,” Ambassador Hussain Haqqani told editors and reporters at The Washington Post. “We want to make sure that it doesn’t come to that.”

Meanwhile, a spokesman for the US-led Nato forces in Afghanistan confirmed the clash but said that coalition forces had come under fire “during an operation that had been previously coordinated with Pakistan”.

Reports in the US media said the fighting erupted when Afghan troops tried to establish a checkpost near the village area of Sheikh Baba in the Mohmand tribal region.

First Lt. Nathan Perry, a spokesman for the coalition forces, told Dawn that coalition forces received small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire from an unknown number of anti-Afghan forces approximately 200 meters inside the Kunar province.

“Coalition forces returned fire in self-defence,” he added.

“Shortly after the attack began, coalition forces informed the Pakistan Army that they were being engaged by anti-Afghan forces in a wooded area near the Gora Prai checkpoint,” he said.

“At the same time, an unmanned aerial system also identified anti-Afghan forces firing at coalition forces. In self-defence, coalition forces fired artillery rounds at the militants.”

Lt Perry claimed that an unmanned aerial system identified additional anti-Afghan forces joining the attack against the coalition forces.

“While maintaining positive identification of the enemy, close-air support was then used by coalition forces to gain fire superiority until the threat was eliminated,” said the spokesman.

“At no time did coalition ground forces cross into Pakistan.”

Asked if missiles and artillery shells fired by coalition forces hit targets inside Pakistan, the spokesman said: “Yes, that’s correct.”

Lt Perry said US military officials had already ordered an investigation of this incident.

US-led Nato forces have launched several air strikes inside Pakistan’s tribal areas over the last year but this is the first time that the Pakistan Army has directly blamed US-led Nato forces for killing its soldiers.

On Tuesday, Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, warned that Al Qaeda leaders operating in Pakistan’s tribal areas were planning new terrorist attacks against the United States and urged Islamabad to eliminate their sanctuary.

Admiral Mullen called upon Pakistani authorities to enforce any deals they strike with tribal leaders in the Fata and to require not only the expulsion of Al Qaeda but also a halt to the flow of insurgents across the border into Afghanistan.

In his interview to the Post, Ambassador Haqqani listed new conditions Pakistan would impose in any deal with militants. Fighters will now have to pledge not to launch attacks in either Pakistan or Afghanistan. All foreign fighters in the tribal areas must be expelled. And extremists must promise not to give safe haven to any group targeting any of Pakistan’s allies, including the United States.

Mr Haqqani also offered to overcome any misgivings that the US might have about sharing intelligence with Pakistan.

Pakistan army informed of Mohmand operation: US -DAWN - Top Stories; June 12, 2008

 

[muse]

Assasin

I'm not sugesting that Afghans be kept uneducated - please do try not to misunderstand - it is the content of the education that is important - isn't that so? After all Madressah education once gave the world scientists, physicians and philosophers, and what does it deliver know?? Content and the ideas that illuminate the content are vitally important.

About develoment -- yes you are right that many things are possible with technology - for instance instead of roads connecting afghanistan, we can have airports connecting afghanistan -- but is this a economically feaseable idea -- i encourage you to think, I certainly want nothing but the best for Afghanistan, however; reality will hit you when you try and tackle the problem. It is a difficult problem.

And yes, you are exactly right about people, any people, wanting better for themselves and their children - and therefore my point about Us policy and Pakistani interests.

 

[asad ikram]

WHAT A DISGUISTING WAY THAT WE ADOPT ON THE KILLING OF MAJOR AND OTHER SECURITY MEN OF PAKISTAN .NOW WE SHOULD STAND ON THIS .THIS IS JUST LIKE THE SIGNAL FOR PAKISTAN TO WAR.WE SHOULD NOW FINISH UP OUR COORDINATION WITH US AMD NATO FORCES AND SHOULD SEAL THE AFGAN BORDER AND SHOULD FILL UP THE BORDER WITH MINES AND SHOULD SETUP A PAF BASE THERE SO THAT WHEN THE NATO AND US DETECTIVE PLANES ENTER IN PAKISTAN BORDER OUR SHERDILS SHOULD FINISH THEM SO THAT US NEVER AGAIN DO THIS MISTAKE ,,,
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!!

 

[ejaz007]

Asad,
I have a cheaper theory. Why don't just send a division of army and capture Kabul or use airforce and bomb bagram and kabul airports.
Instead of writing without thinking I think we need to have a well devised strategy for such a situation. The US, ISAF and Afghan forces must be targeted on border and use what ever force we can. If we retaliate strongly these events might stop or atleast make US, ISAF and Afghans think before doing such stupid things.

 

[Sam Dhanraj]

US coalition releases video of Pakistan air strikes​

Email Print Normal font Large font June 12, 2008 - 5:44PM

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The US-led coalition in Afghanistan on Thursday deflected accusations that it killed 11 Pakistani soldiers in an air strike, releasing video footage which it says shows its forces targeting insurgents.

Islamabad has accused US-led forces in Afghanistan of launching an unprovoked and "cowardly" attack on the checkpost in Pakistan's volatile Mohmand tribal zone, further straining ties between the "war on terror" allies.

In response, US officials said Washington regretted the "reported loss of Pakistani life" but insisted its forces had carried out a "legitimate strike" in the early hours of Wednesday -- and had given Pakistan advance warning.

On Thursday, the coalition backed those claims with video footage showing what it called "precision" strikes on a group of seven insurgents who sought refuge in Pakistan after attacking a coalition patrol in eastern Afghanistan.

The video footage, taken by an unmanned drone, shows a first strike targeted at men hiding behind a rock, and three subsequent attacks on men seeking cover in a ravine.

"It is clear there are no structures or (Pakistani) outposts in the impact area," a voice says off-camera.

The incident would be the worst of its kind since Islamabad sided with the United States in 2001 in its fight against Taliban and Al-Qaeda extremism.

It also comes amid growing unease in Washington and Kabul over Pakistan's efforts to negotiate with Taliban militants.

"The timing is terrible," said Bruce Riedel, a senior Brookings Institution analyst as well as a former CIA officer and advisor to three US presidents on South Asian affairs.

"Whatever little pressure Pakistan has been putting on Al-Qaeda is likely to get even smaller," he told AFP.

Pakistani security officials say Afghan troops crossed the pourous frontier and tried to occupy a strategic Pakistani post in a long-disputed area of the troubled tribal belt.

The Afghan troops were repulsed, the officials say, with coalition forces then bombing the area, killing 11 soldiers and around 15 Taliban.

In an unusually harsh statement, a Pakistani army spokesman "condemned this completely unprovoked and cowardly act" and warned that it had "hit at the very basis" of cooperation in the anti-terror fight.

Islamabad later summoned US ambassador Anne Patterson to lodge a protest.

The US-led coalition said no troops crossed into Pakistan during the incident.

US State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said Washington was "sad to see the reported loss of Pakistani life," but added: "Our troops were defending themselves against a hostile act, which they have the right to do."

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell echoed those comments, saying "every indication we have is that it was a legitimate strike in self-defence against forces that had attacked the coalition forces."

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf backed the toppling of Afghanistan's Taliban regime after the September 11, 2001 attacks, but his support has angered many Pakistanis and drawn the wrath of militants.

Earlier this year his allies were voted out of office, and the new government has sought to strike peace deals with militants in the restive tribal zones.

Insurgents fighting the Afghan government and the NATO- and US-led forces shoring it up regularly cross into the tribal zones, where they find refuge as well as a steady supply of weapons, ammunition and new recruits, experts say.

Pakistan has protested over a spate of missile strikes attributed to US-led forces in Afghanistan in recent months.

Several Pakistani soldiers have also been killed by stray shells, but this week's incident appears to be the first time any may have been killed by a targeted air strike by US forces.

The attack came two days after a think tank funded by the US Department of Defence said members of Pakistan's intelligence services and its paramilitary forces were supporting the Taliban.

© 2008 AFP

US coalition releases video of Pakistan air strikes - Breaking News - World - Breaking News

 

[Comet]

By the way do you know what are you talking about. three enemies killing each other PA attacking ISAF-US_NATO and local Talibans. Talibans Atacking US_NATO_ISAF and PA. US-NATO-ISAF killing PA and Talibans. and if Taliban stood for help of PA then we will surely be known as sympathisers to Talibans.

 

[Sam Dhanraj]

Could not find the Video on the ISAF website but came across the video on ********. (Low Quality)

********.com - Coalition Forces Repel Militant Attack in Afghanistan

 

[Awesome]

So the Afghans were trying to occupy our post and we fired and removed them till the Americans came to the Afghans rescue and bombed our men out!

What the is effin wrong with them?

We need to deny them airspace rights. We just have to.