NATO Forces Kill 13 Pak FC's out of a total of 27!

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Forget about Russia, China or whatever.

This is our problem and no one is going to help resolve it except for Pakistan.

This will be a serious setback to government attempts to turn public opinion against the Taliban, so expect the "peace deals" to accelerate. What the response of the Taliban within Pakistan will be remains to be seen.

Al Qaeda will most likely continue to try and sow instability by resorting to its usual tactics.

Precisely.

One must not bank on others and instead go for it and come to grips with the situation.

Help if any that may come one's way should be taken as a bonus!

Self reliance is the only answer to a national health.

Dependence is a sign of despondency and insecurity of the public's resolve that must be shunned at the earliest.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

ITS.... enough i guss, now to pakistan army to show some courge to step up morale of jawans who are facing the enemy from every side. its the time for mr, musharf to stop his unlogical and unnatral support to USA......belive me he can do that.... i mean at least he can tell , pentagon.. to stop these kind of planed attacks on pakistani soil..... if they dont.... then same kind of statgy can be adopted.... i mean pakistani aramy can also go inside afghanistan...... ahot pursuite.... to unknown millitants.... and can kill as many as they want.......... it could.. make USA.... SURLY ON BACK SEAT.....???

What has this to do with President Musharraf?

It is a democratic govt that is at the helm of affairs and which has neutralised Musharraf totally, including passing a diktat that PTV cannot broadcast his speeches or his Press Conference.

Why resort to the usual gambit of blame everyone else instead of doing soul searching and realising where the fault lies.

Indeed, it will be worthwhile to see how the democratic govt responds and whether it can live upto your desires.

afghan soldiers have been attacking our FC and soldiers for the entire year, we've already had casualties. it's ironic how we can attack india, but we can't even attack a bunch of low-life tajiks who are trying to show dominance over pakistan pashtuns because of their American partners.

In so far as Tajiks alone taking on the FC etc, what makes one feel that the Afghan Army is only of Tajiks?

Again this is the escapism that one should not delude oneself with!

Reality, if faced, can only provide the solution. Escapism won't

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

An interesting comment on the Washington Post in response to this story:

I have spent some time in the tribal areas. I can report the following: the trout fishing is great, the scenery, breathtaking and the inhabitants super friendly. Of course, the friendliness stops when you start shooting at them.

Another important factor: The borders drawn on maps are pure cartographic fantasy. The tribal areas begin inside pakistan and extend well beyong Uzbekistan. It has been that way since Alexander The Great discovered he could not retreat 'til today. The big U.S. mistake was to overstay the welcome after routing the Taliban. If we would have pulled out, the tribal leaders might have sent us Osama and his cohorts instead of granting them asylum.

Of course, the Pakistani Pakistany Army is well aware of the realities of the region and will act in the best interests of Pakistan not those of a misguided policy by an incompetent American administration whose only achievement has been to ruin a good fishing place.

Alexey Braguine is the author of Kingmaker

A response to it:

harkadahl wrote:
Alexey Braguine, i have spent time there too, and your characterisation of the place rings true. The people are super friendly and super poor and very traditional. The distinctions people hold in their minds about what is Taliban, what is Pakistani, where one country/region ends and another begins are nonsense. This nonsense is manufactured by an uncomprehending western media who have no real inclination to understand or help others to understand.

For a start the borders of the entire middle east are a bogus mish-mash created by former colonial powers who's interest was certainly not the local people. The Taliban are not an army, they are a tribe that spans borders.

When America gets the hell out of the middle east for good, when it stops bullying and manipulating, the hatred for it will inevitably subside.

 

[batmannow]

I , TOTALY.... AGREE with my dear, major asad sir, and i adore that idea, we need to review our statgy on afghanistan..... and on war on terror. pakistan should clear to USA... the policy of drone missile attacks......or attacks on pakistani soil should be stopped.. immidietly at the same time should send some strong answer to the recent attack not just........words... and inquries,
strong answer is needed if not thn its, the end of our nucler state quo!!!!!!

 

[dr.rehan]

Launch a nuke. Then say sorry.

This is stupid, but stupid times ask for stupid measures.
Agree. Launch, and just issue sorry statements..
Put inn some ground to air, and heavy art. along the border of pak...
If such happens again, ever, shoot em down, then just say Sorry.

DR

 

[Tang0]

Western News Source IHT(Owned by New York Times):
The Pakistani government on Wednesday condemned American air and artillery strikes that it said killed 11 Pakistani paramilitary soldiers during a clash on the Afghan border Tuesday night.

The Pakistani soldiers appear to have been caught up in a firefight between coalition forces and Taliban fighters in Kunar Province, on the Afghan side of the border. A spokesman for the Taliban said their forces had attacked an American and Afghan position near the border and said eight of their fighters had been killed and nine wounded in the fighting.

The American military in Afghanistan and Pentagon officials said that coalition forces responded to fire from "anti-Afghan forces," their name for insurgents who frequently cross the border from sanctuaries in Pakistan to mount attacks in Afghanistan.

A Pentagon official in Washington said that after coalition forces returned fire on the ground, two United States Air Force F-15E fighter-bombers and one B-1 bomber dropped about a dozen bombs — mostly 500-pound laser-guided munitions — on the attackers.

"The bombs hit the target they were aimed at," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani of Pakistan denounced the attack in Parliament and said he had instructed the foreign ministry to make a formal protest to the American ambassador. And the Pakistani military released a statement calling the airstrikes "unprovoked and cowardly."

The attack comes at a time of some rising tension between the United States and the new government in Pakistan, which has granted wide latitude to militants in its border areas under a new series of peace deals, drawing criticism from the United States. NATO and American commanders say cross-border attacks in Afghanistan by insurgents have risen sharply since talks for those peace deals began in March.

Condemning the American airstrike, the Pakistani military said the deaths "hit at the very basis of cooperation" in the battle against terrorism, according to an army statement quoted by news agencies. "Such acts of aggression do not serve the common cause of fighting terrorism," it said.

The precise circumstances surrounding the reported deaths remained unclear. It was not certain from either the American or Pakistani account whether the Pakistani forces knew they were firing at the coalition forces.

News agencies earlier reported that militants based in Pakistan had sought to infiltrate Afghanistan, provoking a counter-attack late Tuesday from coalition forces within Afghanistan, during which the Pakistani paramilitary soldiers were killed.

The United States has about 34,000 military personnel in Afghanistan, part of an international presence totaling some 60,000.

The United States said coalition forces took fire from small-arms and rockets from within Afghanistan and "returned fire in self- defense."

Pakistani newspapers also reported an airstrike in the area by an American drone aircraft, although it was not clear if these reports referred to the same airstrike. Such aircraft are often used for surveillance, and some are armed with air-to-ground missiles.

There have been several American strikes recently on insurgents inside Pakistani territory. In March, three bombs, apparently dropped by an American aircraft, killed nine people and wounded nine others in the tribal area of South Waziristan that officials say provides sanctuary to Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

In late January, one of Osama bin Laden's top lieutenants, Abu Laith al-Libi, was killed by two Hellfire missiles launched from a Predator surveillance aircraft.

The latest clash occurred at a border post called Chopara on the border with the Afghan province of Kunar, where American and Afghan forces have battled insurgents for several years.

The insurgents have been using Mohmand and the adjacent area of Bajaur as a base for cross-border attacks into Afghanistan.

Fighting has been reported on the Afghan side of the border between insurgents and Afghan and United States forces. According to one news report, one militant was killed and three wounded in a firefight Monday.

The dead on the Pakistani side included a major and were all from the Mohmand Rifles, a paramilitary detachment of the Frontier Corps, the force deployed in Pakistan's tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, a security official said, speaking in return for customary anonymity.

Officers in the Frontier Corps are generally assigned from the Pakistani Army.

The bodies of the dead were being flown to the Pakistani city of Peshawar on Wednesday morning, the government official said.

Among five wounded were three civilians, he said.

Local tribesmen with rocket launchers and Kalashnikov rifles gathered Wednesday near the checkpoint that was reportedly attacked by the airstrikes to show their outrage after the attack, Agence France-Presse reported.

Earlier this month, the American commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan said that Taliban forces in southern Afghanistan were fleeing to the Pakistani border after being routed in recent operations by the United States Marines.

 

[Tang0]

Also, for all of those beating the war drums. What precisely would the US/NATO stand to gain from yet more violence from a new enemy? Violations of sovereign territory are a serious matter, but as has already been mentioned, it isn't like the control of Pakistan's Govt. actually realistically extends to these border areas. I should hope this all turns out to be a terrible accident for the good of all the countries involved...

PS
Any notion that US officers "Despise" Pakistan is silly. They chaff at the inability to follow the Taliban over the border, and are angry that the government of Pakistan is dealing instead of fighting. But they do not harbor resentment to make them break the oaths they have sworn and go off and try and start a war. The USMC officer corp. is arguably one of the most professional in the world.

 

[Interceptor]

this was a ISAF operation with air-support and the under equipped FC soldiers got killed. you are going to see more of these incidents as the US/Nato puts pressure on pakistan to re-start the WoT in the FATA by the PA. unfortunately nothing will happen as we will accept this incident as a operation gone wrong. the FC were mistaken for taliban.

The PM has strongly condemned this act and shown resentments in the Budget sesion in Parliment to day, this aint Musharraftocracy and we aint fighting anyones war here.

 

[Interceptor]

This is stupid, but stupid times ask for stupid measures.
Agree. Launch, and just issue sorry statements..
Put inn some ground to air, and heavy art. along the border of pak...
If such happens again, ever, shoot em down, then just say Sorry.

DR

No lets not be stupid. Launch nothing accept take away US support even more, that is the reason behind the attacks on PA, the new GOV isn't compromising with sovereignty of Pakistan for US, and what the US wants is to use the PA like they were using it during Musharraf era, it is better to slowly disengage from US war and let them fend for themselves after all they have more than a hand full to fight about. If these attacks continue to occur the GOV will pull more of its self out of their war, it was already a slap for them to day when the PM again had to reiterate that this should stop now, if this carries on coalition will work on resolution for the Parliment to pass, the Pakistani people dont want any Musharraf wars anymore.

 

[Interceptor]

Forget about Russia, China or whatever.

This is our problem and no one is going to help resolve it except for Pakistan.

This will be a serious setback to government attempts to turn public opinion against the Taliban, so expect the "peace deals" to accelerate. What the response of the Taliban within Pakistan will be remains to be seen.

Al Qaeda will most likely continue to try and sow instability by resorting to its usual tactics.

And who better to solve it, Asfand is doing every thing to get stability back on its feet, Asfand and his party are key share holders of the peace agreements. Attacking the extremist networks is like attacking a bee hive, the only way is negotiations and allowing the political structure in Baluchistan and NWFP to strengthen.

 

[mujahideen]

The PM has strongly condemned this act and shown resentments in the Budget sesion in Parliment to day, this aint Musharraftocracy and we aint fighting anyones war here.

All these incidents ought to be condemed. But what differnce does it mak who is in power. President Musharraf only condemmed these attacks and the PPP government will only condem them. It not like they will do more then that.

 

[mujahideen]

All I know is they have violated all of our soverignty. This is our Pakistan. No matter who is in power they must send a strong message. Whatever we do with our people is our problem, no need for foreign forces to get involved. This is our land, these politicians are ours(as corrupt as they may be), Pakistan is ours and we will defend it to the last drop of our blood.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

All these incidents ought to be condemed. But what differnce does it mak who is in power. President Musharraf only condemmed these attacks and the PPP government will only condem them. It not like they will do more then that.

Popular support in the electorate.

The advantage of an established democracy is that your politicians will not be able to hold up against public opinion when it is this strong for very long.

Just look at what happened to so many of the governments around the world that supported the US invasion of Iraq, and their electorate was no where as close to pissed as ours is.

We may be a nascent democracy, but there is only so much pressure that this government will be able to take before it has to take actions that will be neither in the interest of Pakistan nor Nato.

I would argue that this fact alone would make NATO more careful over how it uses force.

One huge flaw with US policy has been that while it considers controlling events in FATA vital to their success in Afghanistan, winning over the people of FATA and Pakistan has not really played much of a role in their policy in the region. The people of FATA are Pakistanis, yet while you hear stories all over of NATO troops sipping tea and chatting with elders (in Afghanistan) in an attempt to win hearts and minds, what efforts have been expended to do the same in Pakistan?

If FATA and Pakistan are that crucial to victory, then it seems the height of stupidity to not even try and win Pakistanis over - and supplying F-16's does not count.

Its not like there haven't been opportunities - the BIT, negotiations on an FTA etc. All of that has been approached with absolutely no interest by the Bush Adminsitration, and then they expect that by some miracle the distrust and dislike built up over decades will just evaporate and Pakistanis will support US interests and goals.

Even the FATA development bill, such a crucial aspect of introducing progress in FATA, is stuck up in congress. And they have been talking about that for how many years now?

Development in Afghanistan is at a snails pace, and any efforts at helping development in Pakistan is at an even slower pace.

Absolutely abysmal policy for the region.

 

[Skywalker]

Well I would like to ask one question from all our homembers in this respected forum:

Are we nueclear power or unclear power??
How could a **** country like Afghanistan could challenge our soveriegnity.

 

[TALWAR]

All this confusion will end when people realize that there is nothing called jihad in real world scenario. Because no war in this world can be called holy, because they are not faught for Islam but for selfish desires. The war against US by the terrorists is for their own selfish reasons and they stupidly called it holy war. Taliban attack afganistan and call it jihad, they attack pakistan army and call it jihad. We should not mess between Islam and national or organizational interests.

There is no solution to terrorism, but education.