Nationalism as opposed to Religion?

[Coltsfan]

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I can ask the same thing brother- but why would you put your god (Belief) over your duty to your country (whose existence we are 100% sure of).

I'm not trying to answer for Comet......but if the basis for creation of a nation is the common "belief" in God (as in case of Pakistan), then its inhabitants have no choice but to place God before nation!

 

[SHAMK9]

I'm not trying to answer for Comet......but if the basis for creation of a nation is the common "belief" in God (as in case of Pakistan), then its inhabitants have no choice but to place God before nation!

Thanks for the advice but belief should be kept in houses not shoved down throats.

 

[Coltsfan]

Thanks for the advice but belief should be kept in houses not shoved down throats.

It wasn't an advice but a comment!

In an ideal world, religious beliefs could be kept in house, I can't imagine that happening in Pakistan. Considering the history of creation of Pakistan religion will always take precedence over nation for an overwhelming % of population.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Easier for me since I am an Atheist. (And my family are Chinese Buddhists.)

I'm loyal to the Chinese civilization. Which today takes the form of a modern Chinese "nation-state", while historically it was a civilization-state.

So my answer is nationalism, simply because the Chinese civilization today is manifested as a nation.

 

[shuntmaster]

Thanks for the advice but belief should be kept in houses not shoved down throats.

Islam mandates that sharia should be implemented in Dar-Al-Islam. Sharia doesn't allow the separation of the state and mosque. So, religion/spirituality is not a private affair in Islamic nation and it is closely bound to the affairs of the state.

 

[doppelganger]

turkey isn't too far off from the muslim world, the only reason it is even where it is right now is because of its alliance with the west, don't be naive, the white people's countries are successful while all other races with exception of japan and south korea are third world countries, why is that? because these white people want to keep the rest of us down by waging war making mischief in our countries.
a countries success it seems doesn't have nothing to do with democracy or being secular, its actually involves kissing *** of the west and doing what they say, otherwise your going to have to work your *** off and suffer for decades to get out of your situation.

all of africa is poor, most of asia is third world, even some central asia is third world,but all the nations with white people are developed becuase they help each other while creating rift between the rest of us.

I do think you are being unfair to Turkey. I will tell you why. You say Turkey became what it did because it sucked up to the West.

Well, what about every Arabian nation today then? At least Turkey is a full fledged NATO ally. Why are there US air bases dotted all over the Middle East? Are they then not suck ups?

Why are there US air bases in Pakistan? Pakistan enjoyed the largesse of the West for most of its history. Even today you are their "most important non-NATO ally."

Why then have you not progressed and done half as well as Turkey or Malaysia or Indonesia?

Surely there must be something more to it than just licking white bottom?

 

[AHAM BRIHMASMI]

Could you please provide your proofs? Here's mine that it is not:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.


The Prophet Muhammad's last sermon

this is crux of problem with islam, they are brother of only muslims , not any body else, and snatching, looting, plundering anything including women and children is haram only if the victim is a muslim, other wise it may be considered legitimate, all gazwa were based on this philosophy.

 

[shuntmaster]

this is crux of problem with islam, they are brother of only muslims , not any body else, and snatching, looting, plundering anything including women and children is haram only if the victim is a muslim, other wise it may be considered legitimate, all gazwa were based on this philosophy.

Arabs are brotherly only to fellow Arabs. Just look at how the Arabs treat the non-Arab Muslim immigrants in the GCC countries. In Islamic worlds class structure, the Arabs of the GCC form the top tier, next is the Arab from non-GCC, below them is the Shia's and at the bottom is Muslims from south and South-east Asia.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Nationalism here means "Ethinicity", I don't think there is anything wrong with nationalism as long as it does not creates or promotes hatred among Muslims.

It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He is not one us who calls for nationalism, or who fights for nationalism or who dies for nationalism."

You won't understand that, please don't try to answer something which is beyond your comprehension.

Brother first itroduce yourself in member introducion section & and kindly explain your question.

 

[kobiraaz]

long thread. anyway, nationalism is ok. you can love your country pakistan, your people.. the word is asabiyah i guess.. it means you have to love other non pakistani muslims as well... for example- i can hate people who were responsible for 1971, but not their children who are muslims and innocent.

 

[basharfark]

Nationalism is okay as long as it doesn't become Ultra-nationalism as seen in early 20th century Europe especially in Germany.

 

[CometMibro]

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I can ask the same thing brother- but why would you put your god (Belief) over your duty to your country (whose existence we are 100% sure of).

But what if I have proof God 100% exists? Don't I owe far more to God than to the place I was born (which in turn was given from God too?)?

Do you not see the Pakistan of today? Do you not appreciate that Pakistan was a creation of religion and has had more than its share of religion for its entire existence. Yet it is what it is today. So the panacea as per you is still more religion? If common religion really was the answer, as was theorized by Jinnah's thought process when demanding Pakistan for the Muslims, then Pakistan should have been the most tightly knit and united society in the world today. Is it?

Then he got it wrong, if he wanted to unite Pakistan based on religion he should have given thought to a caliphate and established Islamic scholars in official positions.

 

[CometMibro]

this is crux of problem with islam, they are brother of only muslims , not any body else, and snatching, looting, plundering anything including women and children is haram only if the victim is a muslim, other wise it may be considered legitimate, all gazwa were based on this philosophy.

How do you know? Do you have proof?

I just love how people come and make baseless claims on the behalf of Islam and islamic history... seriously guys...

 

[doppelganger]

Then he got it wrong, if he wanted to unite Pakistan based on religion he should have given thought to a caliphate and established Islamic scholars in official positions.

At least we agree that he got it wrong.

If not why.

 

[Zaryanshah]

I am a Muslim [i.e one who submits to Allah SWT] and hence I prioritize only God over the rest. What he commands is final since he is our creator, not the other way around. Non-Muslims may find it difficult to understand but we Muslims recognise the SUPREME power of the Almighty and hence it is his words that matter and nobody else's. We would give our lives should he ask that of us.

If he has decreed that asabiyya [nationalism of ANY kind] is impermissible for us or any previous believing nation then that is all that matters and we believers stick with the believers. Where is the mettle of Umar radi allahu anhu in today's mumineen?