Nationalism as opposed to Religion?

[qamar1990]

Modern history.The age your talking about..nationalism didn't exist.Religion had no alternative.Today go try a caliphate ,can't deal with tiny syria..and look at guys like qamar preaching to us about brotherhood while paksitanis slaughtering shias like sheep.

idk who is killing shias but it surely arent muslims who follow the quran and the sunnah of the prophet muhammed(pbuh).
shias are my muslim brothers just as much as any other muslim and im sure i speak for 99% of muslims when i say that.


the caliphate for the muslim countries will be good, like a un type of group but with only muslims.

 

[Spring Onion]

Badmaash bu.t.t. Aaj meri ummi nay keralay pakaii hain.

Usually she makes me kerala ghosht, but today just kerala.


My mom is going into surgery in 6 days, and Inshallah everything is going to be good from now on.

kerala??? ab tu bharati riyasaton ko bhee khanay laga ha .


wish your mother good health

 

[qamar1990]

@Armstrong

good to see you my friend; as you can see, my "break" didnt last as long as i'd like it to have....missed your posts


"nationalism" itself is an abstract term that cant be quantified....tribalism and sectarianism is the biggest threat to the Islamic Ummah; not nationalism per se -- though hyper nationalism is not good because too much to the right or too much to the left is not good. Balance is important

nationalism is causing tensions between afghanistan and pakistan otherwise our countries would be friendlly like we are with iran.

 

[RazPaK]

Oi @RazPaK aaaj dupaihar khaneiii mein kiyaa pakayaa haiii ?

Kuch achaa banayaa haii tou main aa jaooon ?

Oy chawal. App apni ummi say naraz to ney ho?

 

[CometMibro]

Modern history.The age your talking about..nationalism didn't exist.Religion had no alternative.Today go try a caliphate ,can't deal with tiny syria..and look at guys like qamar preaching to us about brotherhood while paksitanis slaughtering shias like sheep.

So, in your opinion, nationalism did not exist between 632-1923AD? Are you sure? Are you REALLY, almost CERTAINLY sure? nationalism is an idea that stood since the beginning of time. The caliphate abolished (for the most part) such values.

Really, your argument about the caliphate is also moot, considering a caliphate does not exist (though we Muslims should always strive to bring it back) so you can't tell me that a caliphate is a failure when you can't give me an example of a modern day one, plus you have to consider that previous caliphates were generally successful.

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong

good to see you my friend; as you can see, my "break" didnt last as long as i'd like it to have....missed your posts


"nationalism" itself is an abstract term that cant be quantified....tribalism and sectarianism is the biggest threat to the Islamic Ummah; not nationalism per se -- though hyper nationalism is not good because too much to the right or too much to the left is not good. Balance is important

I'm good wrror....we all missed you too !

Badmaash bu.t.t. Aaj meri ummi nay keralay pakaii hain.

Usually she makes me kerala ghosht, but today just kerala.


My mom is going into surgery in 6 days, and Inshallah everything is going to be good from now on.

Surgery - Inshallah everything will be fine !

Oy chawal. App apni ummi say naraz to ney ho?

Ami neii daaal roootiii banaii hoii haiii !

 

[Spring Onion]

Hello @Spring Onion Apa !

hello kaka ki hal wa

 

[ranjeet]

I don't believe my country is my mother though. What do I owe my country? I only owe God for everything I have.

Tear your passport off and instead carry a copy of Quran and hum the tunes of "Umaah" while taking your next flight to KSA, rest of the story I would read in the papers.

 

[Armstrong]

hello kaka ki hal wa

Aaap thoraa sa Namak Mandi seiii pack karvaa kar TCS kar deiin - Aaap kaa taheii-dil seiii mushkoor hooon gaa !

Ammi neiii aaaj daal-rooti banaiii haiii !

 

[Beerbal]

\\ Type of governance..

1. Kingdoms:
2. Theocratic states
3. Old Democracy (India, greek etc)
4. Modern democracy.
5. Autocratic governments..

When Islam was born Nation state concept was week. Jesus army was using religion as a tool to conquer world. Muhammad inspired by Jesus Idea and he formed Islam.


Map of middle east while Islam was taking birth.. Muhammad saw it as opportunity as two superpower were busy in fighting each other..

 

[qamar1990]

I used to think like you. I was almost convinced that what you are saying is the truth.


But there came a point in my life, where I realized..

The arabs of today are disgraceful. They are worthless. They do not represent Islam.

If you think Saudis represent Islam, then you are mistaken.

You Turks never go to Hajj.

Go to Hajj. And see all the people around the world that go there. You will be surprised. Islam does not equal Arab. Arabs were once a great people, but now look at them.

They will try to insult me for saying this because they have money. But I laugh at them harder. Did they earn any of that money?

Did they work for it?

The only Arab I like is my messenger Muhammad saw.

If Iranians were Sunni, they would be 1000x better than Saudis or Arabs in general.

Just something I have observed.

what these secular turks should answer is that where has turkey gone in a 100 years by being extremely secular?
no where!!
greece is a developed nation while turkey still is not considered one!!!!.
they sold out their culture and everything to be like europe for what? nothing, what they fail to understand is that these white people nations help each other thats why they are where they are, haven't they noticed yet that only white countries are extremely developed? besides the exceptions of japan and south korea who are basically the bit ches of the great ole usa.

latin america is not developed, asia, africa but it seems only white countries make progress for some reason why is that???

 

[revojam]

Could you please provide your proofs? Here's mine that it is not:

-Arabs considered holy people(just like there are Neo-con American apologists always ready to defend Israel how many times we seen even in this forum countless non-Arabs apologists always try to justify everything Gulf-Arabs done)

-Arabic is considered holy language(how many times i seen people taking a paper they seen on the street because script on the paper Arabic ).

-Both Adhan and Quaran must be read in Arabic language therefore all muslims must learn Arabic at very young age(how many times i seen parents teaching their children Arabic just to read one single book even though they are countless translations out there and what more pitiful they teach Arabic to their children even before they master their own mother language.).

-In islam the life-style enforced as "modest life-style" is nothing more than Arab Beodun culture.

-All muslim should abondon and stop thinking with nationality but on other should learn Arabic language and copy Arab culture(outright assimilation).

This is exactly how today countless Middle-East and African countries Arabized(look at Egypt for once) , Islam is without a doubt the ultimate form of assimilation.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

So, in your opinion, nationalism did not exist between 632-1923AD? Are you sure? Are you REALLY, almost CERTAINLY sure? nationalism is an idea that stood since the beginning of time. The caliphate abolished (for the most part) such values.

Really, your argument about the caliphate is also moot, considering a caliphate does not exist (though we Muslims should always strive to bring it back) so you can't tell me that a caliphate is a failure when you can't give me an example of a modern day one, plus you have to consider that previous caliphates were generally successful.

Nationalism began from around mid 1700s,and took form in its entirety after french revolution and napoleonic wars during 1789-1815.
Ottoman empire was in decline from around 1700s.By 1800 and later it was empire in name only,kept alive by a mutual understanding of european powers who didn't want russia[whose goal was to recapture constantinopole for orthodox church and control black sea] gobbling it all up and getting too powerful.

 

[qamar1990]

\\ Type of governance..

1. Kingdoms:
2. Theocratic states
3. Old Democracy (India, greek etc)
4. Modern democracy.
5. Autocratic governments..

When Islam was born Nation state concept was week. Jesus army was using religion as a tool to conquer world. Muhammad inspired by Jesus Idea and he formed Islam.


Map of middle east while Islam was taking birth.. Muhammad saw it as opportunity as two superpower were busy in fighting each other..

well so muhammad (pbuh) was one smart guy, thats what you getting at? lol
we already know how much of a genius he was. after he is the most influential person in history of mankind, the only man in the world to actually lay the foundations for dozen of the greatest empires in the world

 

[Bang Galore]

Tear your passport off and instead carry a copy of Quran and hum the tunes of "Umaah" while taking your next flight to KSA, rest of the story I would read in the papers.

I have never understood why Pakistanis are more susceptible to this "disease" as opposed to Muslims living elsewhere? Is it because they were the only Muslim state created because of religion...?