Nationalism as opposed to Religion?

[qamar1990]

nationalism in its present form did not exist then....

seriously? lol
do you really believe that?
for me my religion is first before my nation, becuase i believe it to be true so obviously i would put god before pakistan.

 

[CometMibro]

Nationalism has proven to be the true successful political unit in modern history,pure religious identities have failed.Like it or not,deal with it.

Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case with Muslims. The Islamic empire stood tall for over a thousand years. After the ottomans, what is left of us? Isn't it funny that the situation of the Muslims went downhill ever since the caliphate broke up?

Religious identities:

The Rashidun Caliphate (632–661)
The Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) - Successor of the Rashidun Caliphate
The Umayyad Caliphate of Cordoba in Islamic Spain (756–929–1031)
The Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258) - Successor of the Umayyad Caliphaten
The Fatimid Caliphate (910–1171)
The Mamluk Caliphate (Bahri dynasty then preceded by Burji dynasty) (1250–1517)
The Ottoman Caliphate (1299–1923)

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Nationalism can be mixed with religiosity (not to be confused with "fanaticism" or "extremism")

Pak Army is a good example in which both are bridged together and where losing your tribal or village or sectarian identity becomes Cornerstone to moving forward and becoming a Professional and a patriotic Citizen


I say it proudly: I am Pakistani/Muslim first. Both are equally important.

 

[qamar1990]

Could you please provide your proofs? Here's mine that it is not:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.


The Prophet Muhammad's last sermon

ignore the haters they are just jealous that we muslims can love each other like brothers without sharing the same blood while these people cant even look at their blood brothers in a good way.

 

[Armstrong]

Oi @RazPaK aaaj dupaihar khaneiii mein kiyaa pakayaa haiii ?

Kuch achaa banayaa haii tou main aa jaooon ?

 

[CometMibro]

At any rate we don't face that dilemma because we're One Nation not because we speak one language or are ethnically the speak; we're One Nation because we're Muslims.

Indeed a good ideal to have! Let's strive for this! Ameen.

 

[valkyr_96]

agreed and it still remains to this day and hence this hadith you quoted the reason i pointed out that islam is against smaller denominated groups and for a collective muslim approach is because there are more hadith pointing in that direction

The Glorious Quran in Chapter 6, Verse 159 ''As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, you have no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.''

Misguided nationalism broke our country into two more on our part then theirs

 

[RazPaK]

Islam it self is hidden Arab nationalism.

I used to think like you. I was almost convinced that what you are saying is the truth.


But there came a point in my life, where I realized..

The arabs of today are disgraceful. They are worthless. They do not represent Islam.

If you think Saudis represent Islam, then you are mistaken.

You Turks never go to Hajj.

Go to Hajj. And see all the people around the world that go there. You will be surprised. Islam does not equal Arab. Arabs were once a great people, but now look at them.

They will try to insult me for saying this because they have money. But I laugh at them harder. Did they earn any of that money?

Did they work for it?

The only Arab I like is my messenger Muhammad saw.

If Iranians were Sunni, they would be 1000x better than Saudis or Arabs in general.

Just something I have observed.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@Armstrong

good to see you my friend; as you can see, my "break" didnt last as long as i'd like it to have....missed your posts


"nationalism" itself is an abstract term that cant be quantified....tribalism and sectarianism is the biggest threat to the Islamic Ummah; not nationalism per se -- though hyper nationalism is not good because too much to the right or too much to the left is not good. Balance is important

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case with Muslims. The Islamic empire stood tall for over a thousand years. After the ottomans, what is left of us? Isn't it funny that the situation of the Muslims went downhill ever since the caliphate broke up?

Religious identities:

The Rashidun Caliphate (632–661)
The Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) - Successor of the Rashidun Caliphate
The Umayyad Caliphate of Cordoba in Islamic Spain (756–929–1031)
The Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258) - Successor of the Umayyad Caliphaten
The Fatimid Caliphate (910–1171)
The Mamluk Caliphate (Bahri dynasty then preceded by Burji dynasty) (1250–1517)
The Ottoman Caliphate (1299–1923)

Modern history.The age your talking about..nationalism didn't exist.Religion had no alternative.Today go try a caliphate ,can't deal with tiny syria..and look at guys like qamar preaching to us about brotherhood while paksitanis slaughtering shias like sheep.

 

[qamar1990]

Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case with Muslims. The Islamic empire stood tall for over a thousand years. After the ottomans, what is left of us? Isn't it funny that the situation of the Muslims went downhill ever since the caliphate broke up?

Religious identities:

The Rashidun Caliphate (632–661)
The Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) - Successor of the Rashidun Caliphate
The Umayyad Caliphate of Cordoba in Islamic Spain (756–929–1031)
The Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258) - Successor of the Umayyad Caliphaten
The Fatimid Caliphate (910–1171)
The Mamluk Caliphate (Bahri dynasty then preceded by Burji dynasty) (1250–1517)
The Ottoman Caliphate (1299–1923)

ataturk the devils left hand is responsible for this, he destroyed turkeys culture as well besides destroying the caliphate, and all for nothing becuase even till today 100 years later turkey is still not a developed nation unlike its counterpart secular countries, and in those countries you can even wear a scarf in government buildings but you cant in turkey.
why did he do this to turkey? for progress? from what, why did greece become a developed country but not turkey even though turkey more secular?

 

[RazPaK]

Oi @RazPaK aaaj dupaihar khaneiii mein kiyaa pakayaa haiii ?

Kuch achaa banayaa haii tou main aa jaooon ?

Badmaash bu.t.t. Aaj meri ummi nay keralay pakaii hain.

Usually she makes me kerala ghosht, but today just kerala.


My mom is going into surgery in 6 days, and Inshallah everything is going to be good from now on.

 

[Spring Onion]

Brother, I can't speak urdu... sorry

and we cant speak telegu sorry

 

[Armstrong]

Hello @Spring Onion Apa !

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Badmaash bu.t.t. Aaj meri ummi nay keralay pakaii hain.

Usually she makes me kerala ghosht, but today just kerala.


My mom is going into surgery in 6 days, and Inshallah everything is going to be good from now on.

Inshallah brother God willing.

all these talks of food....making me hungry