National Air Defense Command (NADCOM) - Updates & Discussions.

[Inception-06]

@mods @Oscar @WebMaster @waz @Horus

Please clean-up this thread.

Why so ? Such politcal exchanges are a natural part of any military discussion, so come down and enjoy the showdown, try to find the points of both posters in their arguments related to the defence of the Country, which naturally means the air defence ! OBL Raid, Salala post attack, drone attacks : "War is the continuation of politics by other means."

@MastanKhan may be you did hurt and attack to much the "Pakistan", I would recommend to get more in a rational, detail argumentation rather than throw all of us in the fire ! I know, I am a nobody in your eyes to give you any advice, but I am reading your posts since 2006.....

 

[PakShaheen79]

Ok. Can anyone give me an idea about how this new command will be structured in a hierarchy? I mean who will report to who? Who will head this command? Under which force this new command will work, PAF or PA?

 

[YeBeWarned]

Hi,

It is for the reason that you have yet to be broken down and then built up ( but only if you chose to )---once that happens---you will begin to understand---.

There are many on this board who were apprehensive at first but are believers now---and my tune has not changed in the last 11 years.

i have been a silent reader here from past 3-4 years .. i just Avoid Posting because i wanted to learn more and speak less ... just because Defense Establishment does not follow your suite make then liars . your reasons are all well refuted by Bilal777 and Oscar on many occasions .. and if they are failed to convince you this than i am sure that i cant

 

[PakShaheen79]

Listen from 6:14 to 6:28 .... it seems the entire AD command is now with PAF. PAF takes control of all air defense assets including sensors, radars and missiles etc.

 

[SQ8]

Current estimated EW coverage - I change certain values out of the known database of this sim based on my knowledge
White is ranges of Individual Radars, such as Bold for AEW and TPS-77
Total radar coverage shown as well.
Red are known SAM batteries and hypothetical deployment locations for LY-80.

 

[Gryphon]

 

[mrrehan]

FM-90 (HQ-7B) SR-SAM


Analyst Haris Khan of Pakistan Military Consortium think tank has disclosed that Pakistan has formed a new Integrated Army & Air Force Command to manage air defense operations across the country.

15 systems of LY-80 (HQ-16A) MR-SAM were ordered by the PAF in 2013. All were delivered by August 2016.
Another 15 systems might be ordered by the air force for providing air defense to all of its airfields and other sensitive installations.

PAF already operates Crotale and MBDA Spada 2000 SR-SAM's and HQ-2B MR-SAM.

Pakistan is in advanced talks with CPMIEC for purchasing several systems of the HQ-9 LR-SAM. The feasibility of integrating HQ-16 with HQ-9 SAM system has already been completed.

Pakistan has also completed the feasibility of incorporating FM-90 (HQ-7B) SR-SAM with Chinese CIWS for its Army.


HQ-16A Surface-to-air missile (SAM) system:

HQ-16 SAM

The HQ-16A is a Chinese-made surface-to-air missile defence system which was introduce in the Chinese armed forces in September 2011. This is a land based version of the HQ-16 system used in ships (and fired from VLS (Vertical Launch System) containers. The HQ-16A is based on a joint development of the Russian Buk-M1 (SA-11 'Gadfly') and Ural/Buk-2M (SA-17 'Grizzly') Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) systems, for use from mobile ground vehicles and later from ships. The HQ-16A is able to engage aerial targets at high altitude; the mid-range HQ-16 is also able to intercept very low-flying targets at a distance of up to about 40 kilometers, filling the gap between the HQ-7 short-range SAM and the HQ-9 long-range SAM systems. The HQ-16A missile can hit targets of an altitude from 400 to 10,000 meters.

Technical Data

Design
The HQ-16A (LY-80) launcher missile system is carried by an 8x8 truck that contains a command and control station behind the cab, and behind those are six firing missile containers in two rows of three. These containers are tilted back so that the missiles can be fired straight up, just as they are from VLS (Vertical launch System) cells. In firing position, the wheels are raised off the ground and the carriage is supported at four points by hydraulic jacks, two at the rear and one on each side.

Missile
The HQ-16A (LY-80) missile can intercept an aerial flying target from an 15 m to 18 km of altitude, while its maximum interception range for combat aircraft is 40 km, and between 3.5 km and 12 km for cruise missiles flying at an altitude of 50 meters at a speed of 300 meters/second. Single-shot kill probability is a claimed figure of 85 per cent against combat aircraft, and 60 per cent against cruise missiles. The missile guidance system is of the composite type, comprising initial independent inertial guidance and intermittent illumination and semi-active homing terminal guidance.

Control and command systems
The HQ16A (LY-80) SAM components comprise a searching radar vehicle, command vehicle, radar tracking and guidance vehicle, launcher unit vehicle, and missiles canister. Technical support equipment includes missile transportation and loading vehicle, power supply vehicle, maintenance vehicle, and missile-test equipment. A single radar guidance vehicle controls two to four launcher units with six missiles ready to launch. The command vehicle is responsible to send target information and combat orders.
The searching radar vehicle is equipped with solid-state S-band 3-D passive phased-array radar mounted on the top of a mast. When the target is detected, the searching radar vehicle performs automatic IFF (Identification Friend-or-Foe), threat judgment, flight path processing and provide target engagement information for the tracking-and-guidance radar. The S-band radar has a range of 140 km and can detect targets flying at an altitude of 20 km.

IBIS150 3D Target Designation Radar

The tracking and guidance radar vehicle performs target acquisition and tracking, and identification of target types. It also controls the missile launching and illuminates the target after the missile is fired. L-band passive phased-array radar is mounted at the rear of the vehicle and has a range of 85 km. The L-band radar can detect up to six targets and track four of them, and provide fire-control/guidance for up to eight missiles.

@Horus @Windjammer @Quwa @Areesh @New Resolve @Oscar

Nice news

Current estimated EW coverage - I change certain values out of the known database of this sim based on my knowledge
White is ranges of Individual Radars, such as Bold for AEW and TPS-77
Total radar coverage shown as well.
Red are known SAM batteries and hypothetical deployment locations for LY-80.
View attachment 345667
View attachment 345668
View attachment 345666
View attachment 345670
View attachment 345669

Good Information Thanks

 

[Khafee]

Did you make this?

 

[Gryphon]

Did you make this?

It shows a HQ-16 battery (without support vehicles). Created the image in Paint.

 

[khanasifm]

According to the prime contractor, the solid propellant missile can engage targets at a range of 3.5 to 50km, with interception altitude up to a maximum of 20km. The missiles are cold launched and a single shot kill probability of between 0.9 and 0.95 is being claimed.

A complete LY-80 system can be deployed in 12 minutes and out of action time is about six minutes.

The naval version is designated the LY-80N, has similar capabilities and is also launched vertically, with each cell having eight missiles in the ready-to-launch position.

http://www.janes.com/article/63784/long-march-fast-aad16d2

 

[mrrehan]

Hi,

Just because the neighbor is 5 times bigger does not mean much---.

We are 5 times smaller---that means we can utilize a higher quality equipment in lesser numbers because of our geographical positioning in relation to the enemy's.

The Pak army's minimal deterrence is not working fine---you have been lied to and you do not have the ability to understand the damage it has caused---because since---2002---you have been on the back foot---your country has been sabotaged ruthlessly and brutally by the enemy for the last 14 years and you act clueless to the damage to YOUR PROGRESS---.

With a weak military---where you can only make retaliatory threats of using tactical nucs---you are just a slave to the enemy's propaganda and enemy's sabotage of your facilities and LOC violations---.

At least this time we can block Indian economic activity by sea or at least make it hard for them.

Listen from 6:14 to 6:28 .... it seems the entire AD command is now with PAF. PAF takes control of all air defense assets including sensors, radars and missiles etc.

Quite good and informative

FM-90 (HQ-7B) SR-SAM


Analyst Haris Khan of Pakistan Military Consortium think tank has disclosed that Pakistan has formed a new Integrated Army & Air Force Command to manage air defense operations across the country.

15 systems of LY-80 (HQ-16A) MR-SAM were ordered by the PAF in 2013. All were delivered by August 2016.
Another 15 systems might be ordered by the air force for providing air defense to all of its airfields and other sensitive installations.

PAF already operates Crotale and MBDA Spada 2000 SR-SAM's and HQ-2B MR-SAM.

Pakistan is in advanced talks with CPMIEC for purchasing several systems of the HQ-9 LR-SAM. The feasibility of integrating HQ-16 with HQ-9 SAM system has already been completed.

Pakistan has also completed the feasibility of incorporating FM-90 (HQ-7B) SR-SAM with Chinese CIWS for its Army.


HQ-16A Surface-to-air missile (SAM) system:

HQ-16 SAM

The HQ-16A is a Chinese-made surface-to-air missile defence system which was introduce in the Chinese armed forces in September 2011. This is a land based version of the HQ-16 system used in ships (and fired from VLS (Vertical Launch System) containers. The HQ-16A is based on a joint development of the Russian Buk-M1 (SA-11 'Gadfly') and Ural/Buk-2M (SA-17 'Grizzly') Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) systems, for use from mobile ground vehicles and later from ships. The HQ-16A is able to engage aerial targets at high altitude; the mid-range HQ-16 is also able to intercept very low-flying targets at a distance of up to about 40 kilometers, filling the gap between the HQ-7 short-range SAM and the HQ-9 long-range SAM systems. The HQ-16A missile can hit targets of an altitude from 400 to 10,000 meters.

Technical Data

Design
The HQ-16A (LY-80) launcher missile system is carried by an 8x8 truck that contains a command and control station behind the cab, and behind those are six firing missile containers in two rows of three. These containers are tilted back so that the missiles can be fired straight up, just as they are from VLS (Vertical launch System) cells. In firing position, the wheels are raised off the ground and the carriage is supported at four points by hydraulic jacks, two at the rear and one on each side.

Missile
The HQ-16A (LY-80) missile can intercept an aerial flying target from an 15 m to 18 km of altitude, while its maximum interception range for combat aircraft is 40 km, and between 3.5 km and 12 km for cruise missiles flying at an altitude of 50 meters at a speed of 300 meters/second. Single-shot kill probability is a claimed figure of 85 per cent against combat aircraft, and 60 per cent against cruise missiles. The missile guidance system is of the composite type, comprising initial independent inertial guidance and intermittent illumination and semi-active homing terminal guidance.

Control and command systems
The HQ16A (LY-80) SAM components comprise a searching radar vehicle, command vehicle, radar tracking and guidance vehicle, launcher unit vehicle, and missiles canister. Technical support equipment includes missile transportation and loading vehicle, power supply vehicle, maintenance vehicle, and missile-test equipment. A single radar guidance vehicle controls two to four launcher units with six missiles ready to launch. The command vehicle is responsible to send target information and combat orders.
The searching radar vehicle is equipped with solid-state S-band 3-D passive phased-array radar mounted on the top of a mast. When the target is detected, the searching radar vehicle performs automatic IFF (Identification Friend-or-Foe), threat judgment, flight path processing and provide target engagement information for the tracking-and-guidance radar. The S-band radar has a range of 140 km and can detect targets flying at an altitude of 20 km.

IBIS150 3D Target Designation Radar

The tracking and guidance radar vehicle performs target acquisition and tracking, and identification of target types. It also controls the missile launching and illuminates the target after the missile is fired. L-band passive phased-array radar is mounted at the rear of the vehicle and has a range of 85 km. The L-band radar can detect up to six targets and track four of them, and provide fire-control/guidance for up to eight missiles.

@Horus @Windjammer @Quwa @Areesh @New Resolve @Oscar

We need serious efforts to make institutions composed of experience international and local Pakistanis brain to develop this technology at home. This is what Quaid-e-Azam said about a strong Air Force stronger Air Defense.

 

[monitor]

IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
Poland buys six Pilica air defence batteries
Remigiusz Wilk, Warsaw - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
30 November 2016
Poland's Armament Inspectorate has signed a PLN746 million (USD180 million) contract for the delivery of six batteries of the PSR-A Pilica very short-range air defence (VSHORAD) missile-and-gun system from Zaklady Mechaniczne Tarnow (ZMT).

Battery chart for the Pilica VSHORAD system. (ZMT)

Pilica has been developed to meet a Polish Air Force requirement for an air transportable air defence system. A single PSR-A Pilica battery includes six ZUR-23-2SP Jodek-SP missile-and-gun systems, a command vehicle, six towing trucks, two ammunition trucks, and two transport trucks (all based on Jelcz 442.32), and (currently) a ZDPSR Sola mobile radar station.

Speaking to IHS Jane's the operational director of ZMT, Tomasz Berezowski, said, "The first interim Pilica battery is to be finished in October 2019, because the system is to be adapted for three different mobile radar stations.

"Under the contract the first two PSR-A systems in serial configuration are to be delivered in 2020; another two in 2021; the last one and the initial Pilica, updated to serial configuration, in October 2022", Berezowski added.

Each ZUR-23-2SP Jodek-SP fire unit is armed with two Grom or Piorun 5,000 m range man portable air defence systems (MANPADS) as their primary effector and two 23 mm 2A14 cannons for 1,000-2,000 m short-range air defence. A single Pilica battery is capable of defending a 350 sq km area. The ZUR-23-2SP and ammunition can be transported on board Poland's Airbus C295M cargo aircraft, while the Sola needs to be lifted by Poland's C-130E Hercules transport aircraft.

The PSR-A Pilica system has been developed by a consortium led by ZMT, along with CRW Telesystem-Mesko, Jelcz, PCO, PIT-RADWAR, Prexer, and WZL nr.2.

After evaluation of the Pilica in the early 2020s the Polish Armed Forces are planning to purchase an additional 6-12 batteries, IHS Jane's was told.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options　ihs.com/contact



To read the full article, Client Login
(311 of 481 words)

 

[Muhammad Omar]

IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
Poland buys six Pilica air defence batteries
Remigiusz Wilk, Warsaw - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
30 November 2016
Poland's Armament Inspectorate has signed a PLN746 million (USD180 million) contract for the delivery of six batteries of the PSR-A Pilica very short-range air defence (VSHORAD) missile-and-gun system from Zaklady Mechaniczne Tarnow (ZMT).

Battery chart for the Pilica VSHORAD system. (ZMT)

Pilica has been developed to meet a Polish Air Force requirement for an air transportable air defence system. A single PSR-A Pilica battery includes six ZUR-23-2SP Jodek-SP missile-and-gun systems, a command vehicle, six towing trucks, two ammunition trucks, and two transport trucks (all based on Jelcz 442.32), and (currently) a ZDPSR Sola mobile radar station.

Speaking to IHS Jane's the operational director of ZMT, Tomasz Berezowski, said, "The first interim Pilica battery is to be finished in October 2019, because the system is to be adapted for three different mobile radar stations.

"Under the contract the first two PSR-A systems in serial configuration are to be delivered in 2020; another two in 2021; the last one and the initial Pilica, updated to serial configuration, in October 2022", Berezowski added.

Each ZUR-23-2SP Jodek-SP fire unit is armed with two Grom or Piorun 5,000 m range man portable air defence systems (MANPADS) as their primary effector and two 23 mm 2A14 cannons for 1,000-2,000 m short-range air defence. A single Pilica battery is capable of defending a 350 sq km area. The ZUR-23-2SP and ammunition can be transported on board Poland's Airbus C295M cargo aircraft, while the Sola needs to be lifted by Poland's C-130E Hercules transport aircraft.

The PSR-A Pilica system has been developed by a consortium led by ZMT, along with CRW Telesystem-Mesko, Jelcz, PCO, PIT-RADWAR, Prexer, and WZL nr.2.

After evaluation of the Pilica in the early 2020s the Polish Armed Forces are planning to purchase an additional 6-12 batteries, IHS Jane's was told.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options　ihs.com/contact



To read the full article, Client Login
(311 of 481 words)

What this news has to do with Pakistan??

 

[Inception-06]

According to the prime contractor, the solid propellant missile can engage targets at a range of 3.5 to 50km, with interception altitude up to a maximum of 20km. The missiles are cold launched and a single shot kill probability of between 0.9 and 0.95 is being claimed.

A complete LY-80 system can be deployed in 12 minutes and out of action time is about six minutes.

The naval version is designated the LY-80N, has similar capabilities and is also launched vertically, with each cell having eight missiles in the ready-to-launch position.

http://www.janes.com/article/63784/long-march-fast-aad16d2

@MastanKhan @Sarge @fatman17 @war&peace @DESERT FIGHTER

Why our air defence network did fail during the 2011 NATO ATTACK/Salala attack ?

"attack continued for two hours, even after Pakistani officials alerted coalition forces to stop",120 minutes air violation and massacring our Soldiers through air attacks and no sign of air defence ?

Pakistani troops stationed at the nearby post named "Boulder" engaged the NATO helicopters with anti-aircraft guns. The helicopters soon withdrew.

(That picture is just a example)

Pakistani authorities tried to contact their NATO counterparts in an effort to inform them of the situation but the Pakistani request reportedly failed to reach the attacking force. The helicopters returned a second time engaging Boulder border post again. A short while later communication with the NATO commanders was established and the attack was called off. All casualties were from the initial attack on the Volcano border post. Later, Major General Abbas expressed that it was beyond comprehension why the NATO forces returned to attack the second time. And still no sign of PAF in the air !

 

[Bratva]

@MastanKhan @Sarge @fatman17 @war&peace @DESERT FIGHTER

Why our air defence network did fail during the 2011 NATO ATTACK/Salala attack ?

"attack continued for two hours, even after Pakistani officials alerted coalition forces to stop",120 minutes air violation and massacring our Soldiers through air attacks and no sign of air defence ?

Pakistani troops stationed at the nearby post named "Boulder" engaged the NATO helicopters with anti-aircraft guns. The helicopters soon withdrew.

Pakistani authorities tried to contact their NATO counterparts in an effort to inform them of the situation but the Pakistani request reportedly failed to reach the attacking force. The helicopters returned a second time engaging Boulder border post again. A short while later communication with the NATO commanders was established and the attack was called off. All casualties were from the initial attack on the Volcano border post. Later, Major General Abbas expressed that it was beyond comprehension why the NATO forces returned to attack the second time. And still no sign of PAF in the air !

.The most logical reason could be during NATO attack, they were actively jamming communication of volcano border post. By the time Boulder post got the gist of whats happening, they conveyed back to Command post and communication reaching there from the TOP i.e. GHQ and then to make contact with NATO through Pakistan Liaison (A brig rank IIRC) there In NATO command center . It seems a matter of minutes, but during active jamming situation and relaying corroborating facts and then asking NATO to stop the attack, while PAF is being kept out of loop because matter is being handled by GHQ and NATO forces directly is how we reach the 2 hour mark and no sign of PAF.

About why our Radars couldnt detect NATO activities on the night of attack, Remember all this aerial action occurred below 500 meter and you can not plug low level Radar blindness along the more than 1000 KM border with afghanistan within 5-6 months of OBL fiasco.