National Air Defense Command (NADCOM) - Updates & Discussions.

[MastanKhan]

I read somewhere that having a potent SAM system network (HQ 9s, SPADAs etc.) is a cost-effective alternative to having a potent air-force if your primarily defense oriented; is that so ?

A potent air defense system is a must for an air force like that of pakistan----. It is a force multiplier----and if it survives he first couple of days of war---you can rest assured---it will inflict heavy damage to the enemy.

Case in point the 73 ramazan war---. The israelis suffered heavy casualties when they came within range of egyptians ground to air missiles---and again---the turkish aircraft wanders into the range of syrian anti air battery and pays a heavy price----.

If your missiles can survive the strikes by the enemy against your air defense systems---it will deny them control over your air space.

 

[Armstrong]

A potent air defense system is a must for an air force like that of pakistan----. It is a force multiplier----and if it survives he first couple of days of war---you can rest assured---it will inflict heavy damage to the enemy.

Case in point the 73 ramazan war---. The israelis suffered heavy casualties when they came within range of egyptians ground to air missiles---and again---the turkish aircraft wanders into the range of syrian anti air battery and pays a heavy price----.

If your missiles can survive the strikes by the enemy against your air defense systems---it will deny them control over your air space.

Mastan Bhai, a noob question : Can Pakistan rely on our missiles (the SRBMs, the Battlefield Nukes, the Cruise Missiles etc.) to hit their FOBs and more into mainland India in case of war whereas we invest heavily in an elaborated network of Air-Defense Systems all over the country to deny them superiority over or near Pakistani Air-space instead of investing in say 300 4 th generation fighters.

 

[Last Hope]

we should erect 200 and 300 meter tall poles in our border areas....on the top of each pole we should weld one anza mk-2 manpad....bring the wires down to earth so that it can be operated from an underground command center/bunker.....one small camera with anza will also help....

very cheap and indigenous idea......

later on we can weld BVR's too on top of 400 meter tall poles.

Aren't you same person who suggested the following two posts? I have had them saved for future humor.

suppose there are two f-16's standing *on the runway....one is at the front and the other one is at the rear....then a rope or string is used to connect the f-16 at the rear with f-16 at the front...that is fire proof rope coming out of the tail of one F-16 and joining with the nose of *f-16 at the back....just like they connect gliders with propeller driver airplanes and take them into skies.......

will the F-16 at the front create such thrust that f-16 at the rear can also get airborne with engines off....so these two airplanes can travel from islamabad to karachi...over karachi the rear f-16 can get rid of the rope,start its engine and fly to towards its target further in the south?....then there can be no need of air-refuelers....like this we can work on and practice *and connect 3,4 f-16's too...so that we can incease the range........

we can master this technique so that later on we connect out of fuel f-16 near karachi coast with a f-16 full of fuel that takes off from karachi goes and connects with f-16 out of fuel and bring it back on land...we can use one hard rope like some stick to connect them with stability.

fighter jet to fighter jet refueling also has potential to strike inside india....we can remove radar from one of our jf-17....put a fuel tank in it...add a long pipe in the front....it can be used to refuel planes short of fuel in air.....

Please show some maturity.

 

[[--Leo--]]

is that anti-stealth?FT-2000 or HQ-18
They must get AESA RAdAR system with s-300 missile kit anyways some thing is better than nothing

 

[turbo charged]

Aren't you same person who suggested the following two posts? I have had them saved for future humor.





Please show some maturity.

sir americans were also shooting at japanese mitsubishi zero planes with 303 rifles and revolvers at pearl harbour........so why not manpads fitted on poles?

the basic idea is that one large 300 meter tall poll dosent has any heat signature so enemy plane will have to come near it to take it out since it will also have almost zero visibility it would be difficult to spot.....plus we can install these poles on jeeps and double cabins so that location can be changed as and when required.......

 

[Nishan_101]

Pak’s arms purchases from China go into overdrive
Thursday, November 18, 2010 12:47:20 PM by ANI

Guangdong, Nov 18 (ANI): Pakistan is interested in buying more defense systems and equipment from China, and hopes to deepen cooperation to upgrade its armed forces, a top Pakistan Air Force officer said on Wednesday.

Pakistan is evaluating, among other options, three or four Chinese surface-to-air missiles, including the advanced “HQ-18″, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman told China Daily.
Jane’s Defence News, a publication that specializes in military topics, reported that China was building the Hong Qi-18 (HQ-18) missile system based on the Russian S-300V1 type 2 (SA-12A “Gladiator”), presumably under a license agreement. But this has not been confirmed by the Chinese military, the paper added.

The missiles, with a maximum range of 100 km, can be used against short-range ballistic missiles, aircraft or cruise missiles, with intercepts taking place between a low-level 25 meters and an altitude of 25 kilometers, according to Jane’s.

Suleman also said that China had completed the first of four Chinese ZDK-03 airborne warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft for the Pakistan Air Force on November 13.

“The delivery to Pakistan will start in the early part of next year,” said Suleman, who is also Pakistan Air Force’s Chief of Air Staff.

He said that the Pakistan Air Force was also looking at the option of purchasing Chinese engines, though any final decision will depend on the engines’ quality.

Suleman brought FC-1 (Fighter China-1) Xiaolong aircraft, an improved version of China’s new generation fighter jet co-developed with Pakistan, to the China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition in Zhuhai.

Military research and development cooperation with China will continue not only in aircraft production, but “in other areas” as well, he maintained.

The Pakistan Air Force is increasing production docks for the FC-1 (named the JF-17 Thunder in Pakistan) from four to six, and is aiming to have about 25 aircraft assembled by the end of the year, the paper said.

“It’s on a very fast track, and there is no other fighter aircraft anywhere in the world,” which has been produced so quickly, pointed out Suleman.

China and Pakistan have traditionally had close military relations, and Suleman said that bringing the FC-1 Xiaolong aircraft to Zhuhai was to display “solidarity with China” and “to show to the world that we have a tremendous amount of respect and love for our Chinese friends”.

Commenting on cooperation in military research and development, he said China and Pakistan “will continue working together. There is no shortage of trust and no shortage of will. There will be more projects developed successfully.”

Meanwhile, Chinese experts noted that the envisaged cooperation, however, does not target any country, and is “tiny” in scale compared to huge defense deals signed by US President Barack Obama in India earlier this month.

Beijing-based military strategist Peng Guangqian said that Beijing’s weapons deal with Islamabad had almost no effect on the balance of military power between Pakistan and India, especially given the multi-billion dollar defense deals signed between the United States and India during Obama’s visit.

The China-Pakistan deals should not be a cause of alarm for other countries, he said, referring to the foreign media reports that the FC-1 was a concern for the Indian Air Force.

Sun Shihai, director of the Center for South Asian Studies under the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, added that Obama also promised India that the US would give it easier access to high-tech equipment for both civilian and military use.

Despite the huge gap between the Pakistani and Indian military forces, especially in terms of conventional weapons, the situation in the region is basically balanced given the fact that both countries have nuclear weapons, he said. (ANI)



Pak’s arms purchases from China go into overdrive

Although would be much better if we had joined with Chinese over the development of different electronics and electrical devices with Chinese along with Sensors so that we can also develop such system at home like PAC(Avionics Division), KRL, Institute of Optronics and other Public Firms will join in with Chinese to develop such system which can used on our own developed Missiles(SAM class).

 

[Edevelop]

Pakistan should keep it simple. Just keep increasing Thunders, AWACS and the SAM systems. They will make us well defended...

 

[karan21]

Its time Pak should build some weapons like sams on their own. If India can build long range sams Pakistan needs to prove it can too

 

[Last Hope]

sir americans were also shooting at japanese mitsubishi zero planes with 303 rifles and revolvers at pearl harbour........so why not manpads fitted on poles?

the basic idea is that one large 300 meter tall poll dosent has any heat signature so enemy plane will have to come near it to take it out since it will also have almost zero visibility it would be difficult to spot.....plus we can install these poles on jeeps and double cabins so that location can be changed as and when required.......

The point is not fixing Manpads on the fence, the point is first building a 300 meter long fence would cost a lot. Secondly, building it on the borderline would a difficult job, as the Indians would not only be against it but even ambush the team building the fence. Thirdly, in-case of a war, it will take just a few tank or artillery hits to break down the fence and hence millions of dollars wasted and nothing achieved. Not only the enemy aircraft would drift into Pakistani airspace without any hits by Manpads, but the Anza MkII would have hands laid on by Indians and they would determine the working and weak points, counter them and build a better Manpad copied from Anza themselves.

 

[mymeaningislion]

we should erect 200 and 300 meter tall poles in our border areas....on the top of each pole we should weld one anza mk-2 manpad....bring the wires down to earth so that it can be operated from an underground command center/bunker.....one small camera with anza will also help....

very cheap and indigenous idea......

later on we can weld BVR's too on top of 400 meter tall poles.

Where were u before....we were so foolish to neglect that.....o wow.......kid go and have a loli pop.......you post is miserable....i am not laughing....

 

[Arsalan]

SAM is a must have for PAF and PA air defence units!
we currently seriously lack a good medium to high altitude SAM system.
there were talks about HQ-9, HQ-18 (Chinese S-300V), FT-2000 but nothin have been confirmed.
This was all discussed back in 2010 at:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-strategic-forces/20716-surface-air-missile-20.html
System details, there procurement news and all...

Also there was an official statement of Pakistan evaluating HQ-18.

Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman told China Daily that Pakistan is evaluating, among other options, three or four Chinese surface-to-air missiles including the advanced "HQ-18".

Jane's Defence News, a publication that specializes in military topics, reported that China was building the Hong Qi-18 (HQ-18) missile system based upon the Russian S-300V1 type 2 (SA-12A "Gladiator"), presumably under a license agreement. But this has not been confirmed by the Chinese military.

The missiles, with a maximum range of 100 km, can be used against short-range ballistic missiles, aircraft or cruise missiles, with intercepts taking place between a low-level 25 meters and an altitude of 25 kilometers, according to Jane's.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2010-11/18/content_11566984.htm
But nothing have been confirmed.

Only there were rumors that PAF have actually acquired some HQ-18 batteries but that was never announced publicly!!

regards!

 

[turbo charged]

The point is not fixing Manpads on the fence, the point is first building a 300 meter long fence would cost a lot. Secondly, building it on the borderline would a difficult job, as the Indians would not only be against it but even ambush the team building the fence. Thirdly, in-case of a war, it will take just a few tank or artillery hits to break down the fence and hence millions of dollars wasted and nothing achieved. Not only the enemy aircraft would drift into Pakistani airspace without any hits by Manpads, but the Anza MkII would have hands laid on by Indians and they would determine the working and weak points, counter them and build a better Manpad copied from Anza themselves.

sir i am not talking about fence....i am talking about poles...poles...poles.....a pole is a vertical thing and a fence is horizontal...a pole just like cricket stadium flood lights......just replacing the flood lights with manpads......

some this that is airborne all the time.....300 meters is a lot of altitude....has zero heat signature and is hardly visible to naked eye and not building on borders..erecting these poles in border towns and villages or even near senstive locations......luring the enemy aircraft to them and then booooom.

plus if we can erect this pole in the load compartment of a double cabin....it would be mobile...changing location....

 

[Capt.Popeye]

sir i am not talking about fence....i am talking about poles...poles...poles.....a pole is a vertical thing and a fence is horizontal...a pole just like cricket stadium flood lights......just replacing the flood lights with manpads......

some this that is airborne all the time.....300 meters is a lot of altitude....has zero heat signature and is hardly visible to naked eye and not building on borders..erecting these poles in border towns and villages or even near senstive locations......luring the enemy aircraft to them and then booooom.

plus if we can erect this pole in the load compartment of a double cabin....it would be mobile...changing location....

Idea is really Jazzy! Only just calculate the weight of this 300 mtr "pole" before monting it on the load-bed of a double cabin. Cos that Double Cabin will just topple over on its side. Apart from that- just a single "pole" 300 mtrs tall will just sway in the wind uncontrollably, what will happen to the MANPAD then?

Don't give your ideas to PAF please, that will just be adding insult to injury.
But good for a smile though.

p.s. take a good look at the base and overall size of the light towers at the cricket stadia, you'll wisen up. And they're not even 300 mtrs tall. Only about 50 mtrs or so.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Lack of Point Defense SAM's for higher altitude interception of both a/c and incomming SRBM's and A/SLCM's is serious issue with the planners at both PAF and SPD.

MANPADS are not the answer and are designed for a differnt role. PAF, PN, and Army have been using these AA solutions to fill obvious gaps in a true integrated airdefense plan. But they are not the solution. Navy needs med. range SAM's. Both PAF and Strategic Air Defense requires Med. to High altitude SAM's. MANPADS will continue to play their role against low level interdiction in foward defense command posts, radar installations, dumps, and artilliary positions and provide mobile AA cover to fast moving armoured thrusts. For PAF they are interlaced with point defense Crotale to avert lowlevel interdiction at airbases, and radar sites.

The bottom line, need Med to long range SAM's for point defense of strategic assets and air bases.

 

[ice_man]

Lack of Point Defense SAM's for higher altitude interception of both a/c and incomming SRBM's and A/SLCM's is serious issue with the planners at both PAF and SPD.

MANPADS are not the answer and are designed for a differnt role. PAF, PN, and Army have been using these AA solutions to fill obvious gaps in a true integrated airdefense plan. But they are not the solution. Navy needs med. range SAM's. Both PAF and Strategic Air Defense requires Med. to High altitude SAM's. MANPADS will continue to play their role against low level interdiction in foward defense command posts, radar installations, dumps, and artilliary positions and provide mobile AA cover to fast moving armoured thrusts. For PAF they are interlaced with point defense Crotale to avert lowlevel interdiction at airbases, and radar sites.

The bottom line, need Med to long range SAM's for point defense of strategic assets and air bases.

our country's armed forces believe that the best defence is a good offence & a mobile moving defence rather than a stationary target! hence PAF always invests in fighters and not so much in SAMs!

SAM systems are too costly & can be destroyed by SEAD operations. hence pakitan with its limited resources avoids good SAM systems.

the first GULF WAR showed how a SAM system can be annihilated by a major super power on the first night of hostilies! hence PAF is not keen SAMs unfortunately.