Nadeem F Paracha insults Allama Iqbal.

[Armstrong]

@Luftwaffe - Why did you give me a Negative Rating ?

 

[Nadi]

Given that NFP does hit at the right place at the right time in some cases.. are you not in essence shirking your own belief statement in your critique of Iqbal as not being right all the time.. i.e. not a prophet or otherwise by saying NFP "tells the truth as it is"?? If you do consider NFP your Iqbal then so be it. But then you should give those that do revere iqbal the right to flay NFP for his views.
This particular statement of yours for e.g.
"if you are a 'sacha musalmaan', then you must obviously support me"
seems to be a double edged sword for your post.. as it also seems that you intend to say
"if you are a 'sacha realist', then you must obviously support me"
Liberal or not, your truth is your perception of the facts on the ground. Unless it is recognized on the basis of concrete proof... it will always be debatable. Iqbal's idea of the Shaheen(as philosophical as its grounding is) was never meant to be the "all in one" solution. That has not come after the Quran or Prophet since.. but its one solution that people preferred and liked over others. Just because NFP does not like the solution since it does not seem to represent his extreme marxist and socially liberal views.. does not mean we all want what NFP or you have to offer.

needless to say, the rest of your post on kemalism is misplaced in its "Approach" to Islam. The First people Kemal took out were specifically sufis.. so I somehow doubt the veracity in the statement that you have read about the history of Ataturk and Turkey post first world war.. It is only because that Sufism is closest to spirituality that it stuck around in Turkey. Otherwise, had it been up to Kemal, he would have killed out Islam outright. NOTHING in his approach has ANYTHING to do with Islam or controlling/tuning/refining it.

Yes, Agreed sufism is one of the paths that has shown the most potential.. and Iqbal himself considered himself as one. But there are other ways as well. Sufism is just more difficult yet more rewarding. The question then comes to extremism and the outright "alien" and "adulterated" version of Islamic ideology and philosophy being forcefed to Pakistanis via the way of Arabia.. and by Maududi(whom i consider no less guilty in adulterating Islam as I consider Ibn Abd al Wahab) which is displacing the amalgamated and adapted version that has evolved around the core that was brought in by the first traders some 1000 years ago; That is for a different topic.

Long story short.. you agreeing with NFP.. does not make him right in my view.. and people disagreeing with him and calling him names.. doesnt really make them right in your view. However, you can go ahead and defend NFP.. and they can defend is Iqbal.. and I can vent my disdain for Maududi and Abd-al-Wahab.. neither of us have the right to shut the other up as long as we are not preaching death of the other person.

Again, I am not against anyone who disagrees with NFP. Disagree all you want. I am against the name-calling going on and abuses being hurled at him. This is NOT the modus operandi of civilized folks. Just because NFP drinks, calling him things like 'cheap drunk attention seeker' is a bit uncalled for or names like 'pigface'. What is this? Highschool girl fight?

And I am not saying, agree with me or else. People are free to disagree. And I do understand people's perceptions shape their understandings of reality and facts.

I do agree with the rest of your post. You are probably one of the few saner folks here and you make your point without bad-mouthing or cursing, etc. You have my respect.

 

[notsuperstitious]

This anarchist pigface has crossed all limits of civil arguments. I know how much this heroine addict loves being hated, as he is one of those people who get a kick out of being hated. I just wish that you get run over by a truck you nuthead. This country can do without a self hating, anarchist jerk like you. Shame on your mother who made a mistake and ended up producing an otherwise extinct spicy of a brainless swine...​

You should atleast remove that reference to his mother. Not for Paracha or your own reputation, but for this forum in general.

 

[Emmie]

We should respect his opinions at least.

Opinions are based on coherent and logical reasoning, so-called opinion we are criticizing here is a monologue. There has to be a substance, I am yet to see the reason that made NDP to come up with this one liner?

Anyway, his reputation is very bad, majority of the reader shall turn down his opinion even if it is acceptable/debatable. I personally find no good reason to give a second thought to his opinion he made lately.

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Luftwaffe - Why did you give me a Negative Rating ?

Wrora when did I give you negative rating?

 

[Armstrong]

I am an avid fan of sufism (thats what you meant right?)

Son, you don't know what Sufism is yet !

Don't worry as soon as you grow up.....you've got your Brother Armstrong to provide guidance !

And no @Oscar isn't a Sufi - Hes very....very...very...very Conservative !

Can you believe it that whenever he walks on the road he wears those blinders that Donkey's are made to wear so that even accidentally he doesn't looks at a lady !

 

[Kompromat]

You should atleast remove that reference to his mother. Not for Paracha or your own reputation, but for this forum in general.

I will when he issues an apology.

 

[EyanKhan]

Son, you don't know what Sufism is yet !

Don't worry as soon as you grow up.....you've got your Brother Armstrong to provide guidance !

And no @Oscar isn't a Sufi - Hes very....very...very...very Conservative !

Can you believe it that whenever he walks on the road he wears those blinders that Donkey's are made to wear so that even accidentally he doesn't looks at a lady !

lol I enjoy it from afar , no intention of becoming one myself

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Armstrong I removed it I don't know how I clicked my mind might be busy in reading so many def pages sorry bro I didn't even give -ve to batmannow after suffering so much by reading his posts.

 

[Nadi]

Women wearing hijabs in universities is a political aspect of Islam?

Its not. Thats why in my follow up post, I talked about Erdogan undoing some ultra secularist policies - dress code being one of them. There is nothing in my comments to suggest everything that Attaturk did was right, he took it too far at times. He was just a man. No one's perfect. Not Attaturk, nor Iqbal, nor NFP.

 

[SQ8]

You have to understand the reality of what Pakistan is. People here are frustrated, tired.. whether physically mentally or any other "ally". In these times and environment they have made themselves cocoons and part non-religious icons/refuge where they see a light of hope. For many it is Jinnah or Iqbal as they are the only people in the history of the struggle for Pakistan whose intentions are not suspect.. they really did wish for the betterment of everyone without caring for their own interests...we believe that in faith.. I believe that.
After that you have idols such as Imran Khan, Nawaz, Altaf Hussain etc etc. .. these people are also defending as unlike Jinnah or Iqbal they currently exist and can be looked for immediate comfort... In short.. they are beacons of hope at various levels.

If you attack these beacons.. you are directly attacking a person's means of mental/spiritual/egoistic oxygen.. and like any animal.. they will bite back with ferocity with little regard for their own image or personality. I would do it for certain figures.. You just did so in a way as well. Now, here is the real catch... the less you KNOW about your icon.. their life..their facts.. and the less you know about context.. multiplied by the amount you have had a less than perfect day.. your response will be as rabid.

POint being. NFP(if that really is his account) is at no level to judge Iqbal when his contemporaries held him in such high esteem. It is perhaps best left to one of Iqbal's qualifications to properly put this in context.

 

[Emmie]

@EyanKhan

By that argument you are negating (sorry to say more then 50 percent) of Pak's population
who like to end sentences with "Islam says so"

How about those who conclude by saying "people say so" ?

 

[SQ8]

Son, you don't know what Sufism is yet !

Don't worry as soon as you grow up.....you've got your Brother Armstrong to provide guidance !

And no @Oscar isn't a Sufi - Hes very....very...very...very Conservative !

Can you believe it that whenever he walks on the road he wears those blinders that Donkey's are made to wear so that even accidentally he doesn't looks at a lady !

No Bhatta.. you are not a Sufi.. you are as much as Sufi as much as Meera is NOT in that video.. You are a phatoshopped and annimation sufi.. who coincidently wants to wear blinders even when looking at men.

Also, you cant be a sufi.. you are a Pandit.. and this is all forbidden to you.. Stick to your Bhajans.

 

[EyanKhan]

@EyanKhan


How about those who conclude by saying "people say so" ?

Two sides of the same coin.

 

[SQ8]

@EyanKhan


How about those who conclude by saying "people say so" ?

Well, Id rather not target or name or accuse one sect or the other(even through I do in certain cases).. but these days there is a certain trend of putting every other normal good advice or saying under Hazrat Ali's name.

God Forbid.. and forgive.. I am prone to thinking that they'll probably come up with a saying in Hazrat Ali's name with "mein te honda-e laysan".. It is ridiculous to the level Islam is used as tissue paper in Pakistan.