Nadeem F Paracha insults Allama Iqbal.

[jaibi]

Opinions are based on coherent and logical reasoning, so-called opinion we are criticizing here is a monologue. There has to be a substance, I am yet to see the reason that made NDP to come up with this one liner?

Anyway, his reputation is very bad, majority of the reader shall turn down his opinion even if it is acceptable/debatable. I personally find no good reason to give a second thought to his opinion he made lately.

Well, at least I don't think his mother should be ashamed of birthing him.

 

[Emmie]

Two sides of the same coin.

Great! Now lets not follow anything being ascertain blindly, The brain that God has has gifted to mankind has a use.

 

[EyanKhan]

The brain that God has has gifted to mankind has a use

Indeed!

 

[Emmie]

Nobody would know the value of mother better than me. I never endorsed that part of aero.

 

[VCheng]

View attachment 21710


This anarchist pigface has crossed all limits of civil arguments. I know how much this heroine addict loves being hated, as he is one of those people who get a kick out of being hated. I just wish that you get run over by a truck you nuthead. This country can do without a self hating, anarchist jerk like you. Shame on your mother who made a mistake and ended up producing an otherwise extinct spicy of a brainless swine...​

Please calm down Sir:


"It's better to get smart than to get mad. I try not to get so insulted that I will not take advantage of an opportunity to persuade people to change their minds." - John H. Johnson

 

[Kompromat]

Please calm down Sir:


"It's better to get smart than to get mad. I try not to get so insulted that I will not take advantage of an opportunity to persuade people to change their minds." - John H. Johnson

Some people take calmness for weakness and NFP is one of them.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Q:Iqbal is critical of Mullah but eulogises ‘Mujahid’. Is Iqbal’s Mujahid any better compared to mullah when it comes to women question?

Nadeem F. Paracha: Iqbal’s mullah that he criticises is the guy who is illiterate, superstitious and usually found in a small mosque in a small village. Iqbal’s eulogised ‘Mujahid’ is someone like Abul Ala Mawddudi – Islam’s very own Platonian ‘philosopher king.’ A learned scholar, a lucid thinker, prolific writer, but at the same time, single-minded, if not entirely myopic, conservative, patriarchal, anti-pluralistic and someone geared to inspire a Muslim elite to lead a cultural and political jihad against secular nationalism and those strands of Islam that Iqbal thought were adulterated and too pacifistic.

So, yes, there’s a difference between Iqbal’s mullah and his mujahid. However, on the question of women both are conservative, but one’s conservatism is cruder than the other.


Q:Iqbal himself practiced what we can call Halala in case of his second wife. However, he was in love with a liberal women Atia Faizi. He opposes women education but employs a German nanny for his own daughter. He is Pan Islamist but wants a Kashmiri husband for his daughter. What explains these contradictions. And how do these contradictions reflect in his works?

NFP: Such contradictions can be found in a number of conservative thinkers in the region. They are conservative and yet flex their tongues and muscles like revolutionaries. They can be secular and liberal in their habits, but think that the masses would not be able to handle indulging in such habits. This has bred hypocrisy and confusion and a society riddled with some rather warped notions about all things ‘liberal.’ Even those who, unlike Iqbal, were not liberal in their habits suffer from contradictions.

Take the example of Mawddudi again. A great advocate of jihad in Kashmir, someone whose party helped ship a number of young men to wage jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan, but Mawddudi himself did not allow his own son to go to Kashmir.

There is no doubt about Iqbal’s prowess as a philosopher and poet, but I sometimes feel, a non-critical stance towards his work in this country has actually damaged his standing. He was a product of his time and well suited to compliment what was going in the minds of Indian Muslim men in the first half of the 20th century. But was he a visionary? I don’t think his work is as relevant today as it is made out to be. Certainly not in a post-modern world where the notions of universalism based on certain singular concepts of faith and progress have long crumbled and given way to a healthy respect and need for democracy, pluralism and diversity. Iqbal’s mullah is a dying breed but then so is his Mujahid whose fast becoming outdated.

Q:Iqbal’s role model is Shaheen (Falcon). In an interview with Viewpoint, Manzur Ejaz said Taliban were Iqbal’s Shaheen. One may not fully agree with him but Iqbal’s Sheheen is hardly feminist. His Shaheen, many will find, as patriarchal. Your comments?

NFP: Iqbal’s Shaheen is a Muslim adoption, rather mutation of Nietzsche’s Superman. And I think he acknowledges that. When Iqbal talks about the Shaheen in the context of the Muslim ummah, the impression one gets is that the ummah is first and foremost a macho, all-male fraternity. At least that’s the initial impression.

(Taken from ViewPoint magazine April 2011 issue)

 

[Developereo]

Original ideas? when he had any of these even in past?

I read that he used to be a music critic long time ago.

 

[Not Sure]

I will when he issues an apology.

Why are you staking your own reputation on his actions? You are old enough to know better than that. And calling him "bitch" and "pigface" etcetera are stuff that kids do because of their inability to do any real harm. Is that how you want to be viewed as?

You, and many other members protested against Paracha's statements, and that was pretty cool because we all can understand your angst, after all Iqbal is your national poet and is considered by many the spiritual leader. But the moment such impotent, but petty and immature name-calling starts, people stop taking you seriously, and all your protests go in vain. Baaki aap khud samajhdar hain.

Here for an idiot NFP who can't really understand Iqbal.

People who have no hold over their process of thinking are likely to be ruined by liberty of thought. If thought is immmature, liberty of though becomes a method of converting men into animals.

M. Iqbal

On that definition, people like Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Kant, Schopenhauer, Zeno, Socrates, Vivekanand, Cantor, Turin Siddhartha, Christ and all those in that line will be considered animals. The very animals on whose ideas we run this world so successfully. And then I wonder what comes of the argument that the first sign of a fledgling civilization is free thinking.

 

[Cherokee]

Q:Iqbal is critical of Mullah but eulogises ‘Mujahid’. Is Iqbal’s Mujahid any better compared to mullah when it comes to women question?

Nadeem F. Paracha: Iqbal’s mullah that he criticises is the guy who is illiterate, superstitious and usually found in a small mosque in a small village. Iqbal’s eulogised ‘Mujahid’ is someone like Abul Ala Mawddudi – Islam’s very own Platonian ‘philosopher king.’ A learned scholar, a lucid thinker, prolific writer, but at the same time, single-minded, if not entirely myopic, conservative, patriarchal, anti-pluralistic and someone geared to inspire a Muslim elite to lead a cultural and political jihad against secular nationalism and those strands of Islam that Iqbal thought were adulterated and too pacifistic.

So, yes, there’s a difference between Iqbal’s mullah and his mujahid. However, on the question of women both are conservative, but one’s conservatism is cruder than the other.


Q:Iqbal himself practiced what we can call Halala in case of his second wife. However, he was in love with a liberal women Atia Faizi. He opposes women education but employs a German nanny for his own daughter. He is Pan Islamist but wants a Kashmiri husband for his daughter. What explains these contradictions. And how do these contradictions reflect in his works?

NFP: Such contradictions can be found in a number of conservative thinkers in the region. They are conservative and yet flex their tongues and muscles like revolutionaries. They can be secular and liberal in their habits, but think that the masses would not be able to handle indulging in such habits. This has bred hypocrisy and confusion and a society riddled with some rather warped notions about all things ‘liberal.’ Even those who, unlike Iqbal, were not liberal in their habits suffer from contradictions.

Take the example of Mawddudi again. A great advocate of jihad in Kashmir, someone whose party helped ship a number of young men to wage jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan, but Mawddudi himself did not allow his own son to go to Kashmir.

There is no doubt about Iqbal’s prowess as a philosopher and poet, but I sometimes feel, a non-critical stance towards his work in this country has actually damaged his standing. He was a product of his time and well suited to compliment what was going in the minds of Indian Muslim men in the first half of the 20th century. But was he a visionary? I don’t think his work is as relevant today as it is made out to be. Certainly not in a post-modern world where the notions of universalism based on certain singular concepts of faith and progress have long crumbled and given way to a healthy respect and need for democracy, pluralism and diversity. Iqbal’s mullah is a dying breed but then so is his Mujahid whose fast becoming outdated.

Q:Iqbal’s role model is Shaheen (Falcon). In an interview with Viewpoint, Manzur Ejaz said Taliban were Iqbal’s Shaheen. One may not fully agree with him but Iqbal’s Sheheen is hardly feminist. His Shaheen, many will find, as patriarchal. Your comments?
NFP: Iqbal’s Shaheen is a Muslim adoption, rather mutation of Nietzsche’s Superman. And I think he acknowledges that. When Iqbal talks about the Shaheen in the context of the Muslim ummah, the impression one gets is that the ummah is first and foremost a macho, all-male fraternity. At least that’s the initial impression.

(Taken from ViewPoint magazine April 2011 issue)

Incredibly well put .

 

[Multani]

Whatever the reasons for the dismantling of the Caliphate, it was done. And thats the end of it. No Caliphate is ever coming back no matter how much you'd want to day dream about it.

Nadi, come on. You don't really have an idea of what a Caliphate is in Islam. You said, the Caliphate is not coming back. But it is the Belief [ MUTAWATIR] that Imam al Mahdi alaihissalam is going to establish the Caliphate. And he is not yet back. And do you know where? I leave it to you to answer where he would establish the Caliphate. Let me give you a hint. There will be five riders, as our Habeeb salAllaho alaihi wa alihi wa sallam reminded us. This is the belief of ALL Muslims. Its a MUTAWATIR belief. Find out what that means.

 

[Luftwaffe]

On that definition, people like Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Kant, Schopenhauer, Zeno, Socrates, Vivekanand, Cantor, Turin Siddhartha, Christ and all those in that line will be considered animals. The very animals on whose ideas we run this world so successfully. And then I wonder what comes of the argument that the first sign of a fledgling civilization is free thinking.

See that's where you did not catch Iqbal that's the problem when people interpret in their own way through their limited intellectual capability, To understand Iqbal people like you will have take 4 years of master classes.

I don't want to get into debate on few things but there are things I can explain to you from bible where the "biblical" Jesus is mostly in his era and blank...zilch of his [biblical man god] ideas revolves in this current world.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

A special report on this loser....

​

 

[Zarvan]

What else you guys were expecting from a pig and traitor of Islam and Pakistan he has sold Pakistan long ago a bloody drug addict swine who can't coup up with the fact that we defeated his first daddy USSR and now his second daddy USA is also running away from Afghanistan he was traitor than he is a traitor now so nothing new from him once a pig always a pig

 

[Not Sure]

See that's where you did not catch Iqbal that's the problem when people interpret in their own way through their limited intellectual capability, To understand Iqbal people like you will have take 4 years of master classes.

I don't want to get into debate on few things but there are things I can explain to you from bible where the "biblical" Jesus is mostly in his era and blank...zilch of his [biblical man god] ideas revolves in this current world.

The onus to make a clearer statement lies on Iqbal. It is not a workable excuse that to understand the meaning of those words one should first study or understand the philosophy of the speaker. The grammar of any language in itself is a set of strict rules that do not allow different interpretations of same sentence. So while I tend to think that Iqbal did not mean the way I interpreted the words (which I did very correctly, per the language), I do question his statement because his being a poet he should have known very well that unless he makes a perfectly clear statement, it can, and should, always be interpreted in different ways as well.

For example, had it not been Iqbal, but some average unknown guy, (say me) to speak those exact words, then you and everyone else would come out with the same counter argument that I did today.

So, for the sake of brevity, all I will say is that Iqbal should have made his statement much clearer than what you quoted.