Nadeem F Paracha insults Allama Iqbal.

[Multani]

Ataturk completely dismantled Islamic strongholds in Turkey, executed Imams and Sheiks en masse, banned the hijab and the Fez and ALMOST changed the way that religion is taught completely.
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Kemal Pasha, did not dismantle "completely" all Islamic strongholds in Turkey. This is gross misinformation, or should i say a lie. Kemal Pasha, completely missed the east in fact, and was trying his best to dismantle the west, but unfortunately did not succeed there either.

Islam and its students are not that easy to dismantle. 600s of Caliphate, and 1200 of Islamic Studies are not that easy to dismantle.

 

[Kompromat]

I do think it is a bit late for Iqbal to sue for defamation.

Shall we wait for more trolls are in store?

 

[KingMamba]

Just a drug addict anarchist who writes for DAWN. He is also a good friend of Indian Canadian, Pakistan basher Tarek Fatah.

Arrey bhai you should know by now that these whores will do anything for attention, insulting the fathers of Pakistani nation is one way to get attention otherwise nobody would care about Nadeem whatever.

 

[Spring Onion]

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This anarchist pigface has crossed all limits of civil arguments. I know how much this heroine addict loves being hated, as he is one of those people who get a kick out of being hated. I just wish that you get run over by a truck you nuthead. This country can do without a self hating, anarchist jerk like you. Shame on your mother who made a mistake and ended up producing an otherwise extinct spicy of a brainless swine...​

and you believed a drug addict actually studied Iqbal? he is abnormal man who vent his frustration by speaking against even own fellow media persons and media outlets . his cheap satires have died down and he needs new cheap shots so what will be better than Great Iqbal to revive NFP's gutter level publicity

 

[KingMamba]

Kemal Pasha, did not dismantle "completely" all Islamic strongholds in Turkey. This is gross misinformation, or should i say a lie. Kemal Pasha, completely missed the east in fact, and was trying his best to dismantle the west, but unfortunately did not succeed there either.

Islam and its students are not that easy to dismantle. 600s of Caliphate, and 1200 of Islamic Studies are not that easy to dismantle.

He didn't but he sure as hell tried lol.

 

[Luftwaffe]

How is 'Quran thumping' an insult to the Quran? It is an insult to those who thump the Quran in our faces.

I don't know how you treat things when you talk about Quran I find it insulting you could have chosen other words/sentence. Although i agree that we talk alot of BS about arab moulanas but they are far better because they don't politicise things in Masajids and everywhere compared to Pakistani moulanas [I choose the word moulanas against mullah that is also an insult]. If I am you I when speaking about Quran would be very careful utmost even if i give reference about other people in the same sentence.

 

[Jackdaws]

Shall we wait for more trolls are in store?

Oh please. I deeply respect the fine Indian poet Iqbal. I am happy that B'desh and Pakistan have both chosen Indians to be their national poets.

 

[Spring Onion]

When so-called "artists" run out of creative ideas, they resort to cheap pornography and claim they are "pushing the boundaries".

Paracha ran out of original ideas long ago. All he does is rehash the same, tired old tripe over and over, and, like junkies addicted to dope, his audience laps it up.

I am sure, like all brainless addicts, his followers in India and Pakistan will pat themselves on the back for daring to "push the envelope".

Original ideas? when he had any of these even in past?

i have found only one worth reading stuff by him and that was about his party PPP.

 

[KingMamba]

Oh please. I deeply respect the fine Indian poet Iqbal. I am happy that B'desh and Pakistan have both chosen Indians to be their national poets.

LOL spare us we all know what Iqbal thought about India by the end of his life.

 

[EyanKhan]

Oh please. I deeply respect the fine Indian poet Iqbal. I am happy that B'desh and Pakistan have both chosen Indians to be their national poets.

It makes us more happy that the visionary of Pakistan is so well respected by you

 

[Kompromat]

Ataturk completely dismantled Islamic strongholds in Turkey, executed Imams and Sheiks en masse, banned the hijab and the Fez and ALMOST changed the way that religion is taught completely.

Are you justifying the murder of people who may or may not have anything to do with the defeat of Turkey in the first world war?
Do you also know that Ataturk in fact was an unelected dictator who was a surgery Turkey needed because they were occupied!

I do understand that you get a kick out of killing imams, qaris and everyone with a little bit of Islam left in them as it sounds like such a stalinist goolagist/Nazi concentration camps style 'purification' process. Does it not? - Please educate me how killing imams, qaris, banning Hijab, and 'Almost changing the way Islam is taught' is going to help Pakistan become a better place?

 

[SQ8]

WHAAAAT? Islam is NOT about the 'utopia' of Islamic brotherhood; Islam talks about a Islamic brotherhood in 'real' terms which was achieved in the early days of Islam and never since. It has become a utopia 'now' that Muslims are divided in to sects, schools of thought, etc.

Any "Utopia" is a state of everyone practicing a philosophy the way it is supposed to be; thus rendering the need for crime and punishment to desist - and that's never going to happen for any philosophy and it wont happen for Islam - not least because there is no agreement on "what Muslims are supposed to be" in the first place. There is The Quran, then the Hadith, some Muslims agree with the need for Hadith, others don't. Four major schools of thought and an increasing number of different sects in Islamic thought, faith and practice. We, Muslims can't even agree on one legal framework and interpretation/understanding of the Sharia.

All of that aside, "Utopia" is a state of perfection - and we all know that it is waste of time pondering over that day when all Muslims once again achieve that perfection. It will never happena again.

Turkey - the last Muslim country with a Khalifa abolished the Caliphate. There ended any chances of an 'ummah'. Yet Turkey is vastly successful today and a relatively freer society today than compared to almost all Muslim countries. Ataturk completely dismantled Islamic strongholds in Turkey, executed Imams and Sheiks en masse, banned the hijab and the Fez and ALMOST changed the way that religion is taught completely. The main brand of Islam in Turkey is Sufi Islam (the whirling dervishes) - a brand that we have a strong base for in Pakistan as well- but it is being killed off by Wahabi and Salafi oil money because for them, Sufis are heretics. To understand Turks and Turkish politics you must first acquaint yourself with Kemal Ataturk: and once you have read his biography and life, you will understand the Turks and how their experiment with Islam has worked while we in Pakistan have failed; even though Pakistan was NOT created for Islam, it was created for Muslims.

NFP is NOT insulting any 'foundations of Pakistan', this is your rhetorical spin on his words to marshal support for your argument on the basis of "if you are a 'sacha musalmaan', then you must obviously support me" - an argument used by Pakistani religious parties, figures, etc for decades- but is essentially an intellectual blackmail.

NFP tells the truth as it is, whether you like it or not. Time for my fellow Pakistanis, I pray, to step up to the plate and start deconstructing their preconceived notions about various things and let go of their inherent prejudices and reflect seriously on who we are, what we stand for. The truth should be the winner, not a particular agenda.

Given that NFP does hit at the right place at the right time in some cases.. are you not in essence shirking your own belief statement in your critique of Iqbal as not being right all the time.. i.e. not a prophet or otherwise by saying NFP "tells the truth as it is"?? If you do consider NFP your Iqbal then so be it. But then you should give those that do revere iqbal the right to flay NFP for his views.
This particular statement of yours for e.g.
"if you are a 'sacha musalmaan', then you must obviously support me"
seems to be a double edged sword for your post.. as it also seems that you intend to say
"if you are a 'sacha realist', then you must obviously support me"
Liberal or not, your truth is your perception of the facts on the ground. Unless it is recognized on the basis of concrete proof... it will always be debatable. Iqbal's idea of the Shaheen(as philosophical as its grounding is) was never meant to be the "all in one" solution. That has not come after the Quran or Prophet since.. but its one solution that people preferred and liked over others. Just because NFP does not like the solution since it does not seem to represent his extreme marxist and socially liberal views.. does not mean we all want what NFP or you have to offer.

needless to say, the rest of your post on kemalism is misplaced in its "Approach" to Islam. The First people Kemal took out were specifically sufis.. so I somehow doubt the veracity in the statement that you have read about the history of Ataturk and Turkey post first world war.. It is only because that Sufism is closest to spirituality that it stuck around in Turkey. Otherwise, had it been up to Kemal, he would have killed out Islam outright. NOTHING in his approach has ANYTHING to do with Islam or controlling/tuning/refining it.

Yes, Agreed sufism is one of the paths that has shown the most potential.. and Iqbal himself considered himself as one. But there are other ways as well. Sufism is just more difficult yet more rewarding. The question then comes to extremism and the outright "alien" and "adulterated" version of Islamic ideology and philosophy being forcefed to Pakistanis via the way of Arabia.. and by Maududi(whom i consider no less guilty in adulterating Islam as I consider Ibn Abd al Wahab) which is displacing the amalgamated and adapted version that has evolved around the core that was brought in by the first traders some 1000 years ago; That is for a different topic.

Long story short.. you agreeing with NFP.. does not make him right in my view.. and people disagreeing with him and calling him names.. doesnt really make them right in your view. However, you can go ahead and defend NFP.. and they can defend Iqbal.. and I can vent my disdain for Maududi and Abd-al-Wahab.. neither of us have the right to shut the other up as long as we are not preaching death of the other person.

 

[Leader]

I do think it is a bit late for Iqbal to sue for defamation.

I didnt mean in legal sense..perhaps one's heir can?, some legal guy may know !

 

[Spring Onion]

Nah ... This anarchist pigface has got the guts to express himself freely in a highly hypocritical and conservative society ... A very rare quality indeed

He is clear in his thoughts . He rejects all Islamists . For him , they are all bad . And when he said "Iqbal was worse than Maudodi" , he meant Iqbal was more extreme in his views than Maudodi . The conservatives and Iqbal worshippers should take it as a compliment !!!

I myself am a big admirer of Iqbal and I believe Iqbal was not a Mullah by any definition

GUTS? he is just an attention seeker. cheap satire and classic one are two different things.

 

[SQ8]

Mr Paracha said Allamah Iqbal was talking of a Utopia. Allamah Iqbal was a REALIST. He was a spiritualist, with real living teachers, from whom he gained knowledge, and then pondered, unlike Mr Paracha, who has not learned religion, and from your post Nadi, I don't believe you have either.

The Uthmani Caliphate was abolished due to external aggression and instigated internal aggression. You have given evidence of that aggression.

You, Nadi, do not seem to know about the other side of Turkey. I did not see it in your post above. You don't seem to have knowledge of Islamic Turkey. It seems you are not acquainted with contemporary Turkish Sunni Scholars and Sufi Masters. Probably, you are not aware of their education institutes, their seminaries, teachers, and students. I am not bragging, but letting you know that there is another side of Turkey, which it seems, you don't know about. So, I don't think you hold much ground in using Turkey as an example for Pakistan.

Mr Paracha has lied. But his lie is based on his gross [ and deliberate ] misunderstanding of Allamah Iqbal and other Muslims. He comes with pre-conceived notions that he has developed in cognition to Western/progressive thought. Stuck in his own bubble, that is the reason why he describes himself as an anarchist. Allama Iqbal was a realist, from the villages and towns of Punjab. A man of the land.

But there is one important teaching taught by all Auliya in their acts.. that unlike the disease from Najd.. or the one from our own soil.. We(Sufis) do not throw people out of Islam on disagreements. Do not declare them Kafir on the slightest whim.. let the judgement rest with the almighty.