My PAK-FA analysis

[Moscow]

third official pakfa flight colored in grey white russian color

 

[Dron.ru]

Comments of american experts: youtube.com/watch?v=MQYuQq-CX0w

 

[leon]

well have u people any idea when will b the indian varient of pak fa, the fgfa will roll out

 

[sudhir007]

 

[Dark Angel]

Source: newspaper "Sight"
Author: Maria Ivanova
18:25 Published: 15/02/2010, 18:25

Fifth-generation fighter once again rose into the air

"On Saturday in Komsomolsk-on-Amur hosted the third flight of the fighter. The flight program fully implemented. All units and aircraft systems worked without any problems", - told a source in the military-industrial complex.

He clarified that the first flight of the fighter was held two weeks ago, on January 29, in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. And he and the second flight lasted about an hour. At the second test flight of the fighter has already gone in the "new look" - it was painted in the colors of the Air Force Russia - gray and white camouflage broken."From the looks of this car in the air even more swift and terrible," - noted then source in the military-industrial complex.

In the future PAK FA is waiting for a few more test flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, then the plane moves to Zhukovsky near Moscow in the Gromov Flight Research Institute, which will have the bulk of flight tests.

Tests fighter for combat application also will be held at the State flight test center of the Defense Ministry in Akhtubinsk (Astrakhan region).

Recall, February 11, Chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia Nikolay Makarov said that Russia's fifth generation fighter aircraft will have "almost human intelligence," and the price will be cheaper than the American counterpart. Also, according to him, the fighter "has a number of other advantages.

Newspaper, which sought to find out how arranged Russia's newest fighter aircraft, has already stated that Russia's new aircraft for at least the first stage will be equipped with radar N050 (improved version of the Radar Irbis-E Su-35) of millimeter waves. Besides the main airborne radar aircraft is equipped with an additional radar centimeter. Application of additional radars, spaced from both the primary position and in the frequency range, will not only increase the noise immunity and combat survivability design, but also significantly reduce the visibility of technology neutralizes the enemy planes.

According to some foreign experts, the PAK FA will be equipped with the new optical-location station OLS-50M, which would gain an advantage in detecting stealth air targets and can become the primary sensor in a dogfight with the F-22 and F-35.

Among the requirements for flight performance indicates supersonic speed in cruising flight, with the besforsazhnom mode engines.

T-50 also has the maneuverability at subsonic speeds and increased maneuverability at supersonic.This affected the aerodynamics of the aircraft, equipped with very complex with lots of wing thrust surfaces, allowing to maintain control of supercritical regimes.

As experts, characterized PAK FA will be multi-functionality (ability to solve problems defeat both air and ground targets in all weather and time of day), maneuverability, low visibility in the optical, infrared and radio wavelengths, supersonic cruising flight mode, the ability to fly and land, using land runways 300-400 meters.

In general, evaluating the test results, honored test pilot Sergei Bogdan, piloted the plane, said: "During the flight we had a primary assessment of controllability of the aircraft, engine and major systems, the aircraft made a full-time cleaning and landing gear. It is working well in all stages of our intended flight program. They are easily and comfortably manage.

The general director of company "Sukhoi" Mikhail Pogosyan in circulated a press statement said that "the plans of the company" Sukhoi "and is further developing the program PAK FA, on which we will work with Indian partners."

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who described the first flight of the fighter as "a nice event," promised that "in 2013 should do the first batch (PAK FA) in the Armed Forces, and in 2015 already begin serial purchases.

In turn, the head of the Defense Ministry Anatoly Serdyukov has expressed hope that all the time to supply the first batch of aircraft will be met.

 

[Dron.ru]

In this picture there is a mistake: PAK FA Range is not 2000 km

PAK FA T-50
Empty weight: 18500 kg
Maximum takeoff weight: 37000 kg
Weight of fuel: 12900 kg (100&#37
Weight load: 2490 kg - 10930 kg

--Filling--
Tank #1: 1.42 m³ (1115 kg)
Tank #2: 3.46 m³ (2716 kg)
Tank #3: 2.02 m³ (1585 kg)
Tank #4: 1.70 m³ (1335 kg)
Tank #5: 2.00 m³ (1570 kg)
Tank #6: 5.80 m³ (4553 kg)

Volume of tanks 1.42 + 3.46 + 2.02 + 1.7 + 2 + 5.8 = 16.4 m³
Weight of fuel 16,4 m³ x 785 kg / m³ = 12900 kg (full)
2 PTB-2000, 2 x 1570 kg = 3140 kg of fuel, the total weight of 12900 kg + 3140 kg = 16040 kg
Kilometer fuel consumption of 2.91 kg / km
Range without drop tanks - 4400 km, with drop tanks PTB-2000 - 5500 km
Range superkruiza 1850 - 2100 km (flight time in this mode, 1 hour without refueling)

F-22 Raptor (information from wiki)
Range: 2000 km
Range with PTB: 2880 km (with 2 PTB)

 

[Tiger Awan]

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who described the first flight of the fighter as "a nice event," promised that "in 2013 should do the first batch (PAK FA) in the Armed Forces, and in 2015 already begin serial purchases.

In turn, the head of the Defense Ministry Anatoly Serdyukov has expressed hope that all the time to supply the first batch of aircraft will be met[/U].

The Russian Air Force's fifth-generation fighter successfully completed its second test flight in the Far East on 12 February 2010.

The prototype of the T-50 aircraft will now undergo number of test flights in KNAAPO's Komsomolsk-on-Amur plant, according to RIA Novosti.

Following the series of tests, the prototype will be sent to the Flight Trail Institute at Zhukovsky airbase near Moscow, for final testing.

Piloted by Sergei Bogdan, the prototype took flight from the KNAAPO plant and remained airborne for 57min, ten minutes longer than its maiden flight in January.

Weapons trials will be carried out at Akhtuba range in the south Russian region of Astrakhan.

The Russian Air Force will introduce the first T-50 PAK-FA fifth-generation fighter in 2015, instead of 2013, as recently requested by Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

Russia, which has been developing the fighter since the 1990s, has hailed the PAK FA as a unique warplane that combines the capabilities of an air superiority fighter and attack aircraft.

The air force is designing the PAK FA, with advanced avionics, stealth capability, a ferry range of up to 5,500km and an endurance of 3.3h, to compete with the US F-22 Raptor.


Air Force Technology - Russian Completes Second Test Flight on T-50

 

[baba firangi]

Pigs are worshiped in india and thats quite a shame for the 21st century. ewwwww.

Awww.. As if the talibs and Jamat ullu Dawa you so revere and love, are preaching the values of 22nd century by promising to launch SWAT and Afghanistan into stone age.. WHAT A SHAMEEEEEE... AAA!!!THOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Rats, pigs, cows, dogs, monkeys, elephants. woow. no wonder why you guys act so not differently on this forum.

First you put a PIG onto your PAK-FA analysis.. Then you claim that PAK-FA aint stealthy enough compared to F-35 based on its design, since it doesn't resemble resemble F-35.. Then you claim PSLV was basically a russian rocket..
And worst of all, you don't even have the basic modesty nor the courtesy to respect other's culture and religion.. You are even more pathetic than the animals you mentioned above..

that only defines you indians..

Who gives a damn to your definition of Indians..??

I M LOVING IT...

LOVE LOVE.. Its your own thread.. Love it as much as you can.. But act smart and try to abuse my religion and my countrymen instead of sticking to topic, and i promise it will all get real dirty..

 

[desiman]

Ok guys I wasn’t able to post anything for sometime but I did keep a tap this thread, and let me tell you it gave me a lot to laugh about over the time. School boys talking about things that they cannot even imagine lol. I was talking to some of my friends at Sukhoi and I mentioned some of the post here to them and only thing they did was laugh and laugh really loud. They told me that they will register on the forum to post their input soon also. Ok so as I am here I shall try to debunk some of the claim that many Pakistani members are making here –

1) People here don’t understand the meaning of Prototype lol. And those who don’t should not be on this forum. Really guys common it’s the first time this jet was unvelved and people here are already comparing it to the F-22 and F-35, when its atleast 4-5 years away from its final state. So guys stop with your idotic posting as it only deserves a laugh.

2) People here are posting about DAS systems, engine outlets, Stealth, etc etc using youtube as a reference and somehow just want to criticize the PAKFA for no reason at all. In its final form the PAKFA will be by all means second only to the F-22. The F-35 is truly amazing also but the PAKFA program is being taken care of by the best in the world not only because it will signify Russia’s come back but also will serve as India’s frontline aircraft in the coming times. The acutual program is atleast 10-15 years old and im sure engineers at Sukhoi know more that many members here lol Enough money and expertise is being poured into the program and no school boy here has any idea the amount of work that goes into getting an aircraft of such magnitude into the air.

3) Its quite funny that when Indian criticize the JF-17 everyone here seems to jump onto them and beat the guy left and right but every Pakistani member has the right to criticize something that they have no idea about. Members here talk about what the JF-17 will get 10 years from now but are not ready to accept the PAKFA will totally overawe anything else in the south Asian sky. People learn to accept facts.

4) Let me explain stealth tech to the fanboys here seem to know much more the Sukhoi engineers lol
The idea is for the radar antenna to send out a burst of radio energy, which is then reflected back by any object it happens to encounter. The radar antenna measures the time it takes for the reflection to arrive, and with that information can tell how far away the object is.
The metal body of an airplane is very good at reflecting radar signals, and this makes it easy to find and track airplanes with radar equipment.

The goal of stealth technology is to make an airplane invisible to radar. There are two different ways to create invisibility:
• The airplane can be shaped so that any radar signals it reflects are reflected away from the radar equipment.
• The airplane can be covered in materials that absorb radar signals.

Most conventional aircraft have a rounded shape. This shape makes them aerodynamic, but it also creates a very efficient radar reflector. The round shape means that no matter where the radar signal hits the plane, some of the signal gets reflected back:

A stealth aircraft, on the other hand, is made up of completely flat surfaces and very sharp edges. When a radar signal hits a stealth plane, the signal reflects away at an angle, like this:

In addition, surfaces on a stealth aircraft can be treated so they absorb radar energy as well. The overall result is that a stealth aircraft like an F-117A can have the radar signature of a small bird rather than an airplane. The only exception is when the plane banks -- there will often be a moment when one of the panels of the plane will perfectly reflect a burst of radar energy back to the antenna.

One of the technologies that the PAKFA will unitize which is also used by the F-22 and F-35 is called Facing. Which is to incorporate angels into the structure of the aircraft so that it can diffuse all sort of signals such as radar and give it the so called “Low observance”. The problem is that one cannot have 100% stealth because of the fact that the design must be able to fly. Even Aircraft such as the F-22 cannot fly without the help of sophisticated “Fly by wire” technology. Another technique that may be used on the PAKFA but not yet confirmed is to charge the leading edges of the aircraft with millions of volts of electricity when in flight this pushed positively air particles ahead of the aircraft at the same time negatively charged are expelled from the jet exhaust. This will help push the aircraft through the air by softening the sound barrier an essential to the “Super cruise theory “and will also reduce sound and the vapor contrail of the engines. The created electric fields also eat into the radar waves further reducing its RCS signature. The PAKFA will also be coated with a electrically charged skin light emitting polymer paint. This will help the PAKFA in 2 ways – the charged skin absorbs radar waves but will also glow when charged allowing the aircraft to change it brightness automatically to blend in the sky giving true stealth and invisibility even in daylight.

So please stop criticizing the PAKFA even before its even close to being ready just because you cannot swallow the facts. The Chinese are quite close also but still are atleast 5 years away from their first prototype. Pakistani fanboys specially the ones obsessed with China must realize that even with China’s progress in Aviation, stealth is something that take years and years of work. The Russian have been on it since the cold war times and are only now starting to reap the benefits. Its not about the budget but about the expertise and availability of needed information. Even if China manages to induct the J-XX asap the PAF can almost forget about getting their hands on it as first of all it will be to expensive and secondly the Chinese never share their best with anyone else. Keeping in mind the amount of money it takes to maintain a 5th generation aircraft only India, China and Russia are capable to maintaining them in the region. Rather than criticizing the PAKFA like immature school kids look for alternatives for the PAF as the gap between the IAF and the PAF is getting nothing but bigger. Cheer to our Russian friends, may our friendship last forever.

I still have loads of more info on the PAKFA and will post that as an ongoing process.

Будем здоровы! : P ahh my days in Moscow lol



DD

 

[amalakas]

Ok guys I wasn’t able to post anything for sometime but I did keep a tap this thread, and let me tell you it gave me a lot to laugh about over the time. School boys talking about things that they cannot even imagine lol. I was talking to some of my friends at Sukhoi and I mentioned some of the post here to them and only thing they did was laugh and laugh really loud. They told me that they will register on the forum to post their input soon also. Ok so as I am here I shall try to debunk some of the claim that many Pakistani members are making here –

1) Not all of us put down the PAK FA.
2) For someone who is supposed to know so much, you are just repeating well known and trivial facts about radar and stealth.
3) Not all of us in here are school boys.. some of us have PhDs.....
4) You have friends in Sukhoi..how come they didn't give you any more solid information than a wiki would..strange ?
5) The fact that they laugh at this thread if true doesn't mean much..most developers try to laugh off competing designs.. its only after that real strengths and weaknesses are revealed.

Millions of volts one the wing leading edges ? Electricaly charged skin ? ......... you do realize that the Voltage is applied in a pair.. you can't have positive without negative .. which way would the polarity be? To expell negatively charged particles from the rear ? how ? is the PAK FA going to have an ION engine ?
You do realize that the color of the sky you see from the ground is not the same you see from above or sides or sides from a distance ?
is the pak Fa going to be calculating the angles of refraction and produce different colors for its top, bottom and sides ?? and do that constantly ? .................................. wow.. .. and if it flies over the sea ? is it going to turn dark blue on the top ?

 

[desiman]

1) Not all of us put down the PAK FA.
2) For someone who is supposed to know so much, you are just repeating well known and trivial facts about radar and stealth.
3) Not all of us in here are school boys.. some of us have PhDs.....
4) You have friends in Sukhoi..how come they didn't give you any more solid information than a wiki would..strange ?
5) The fact that they laugh at this thread if true doesn't mean much..most developers try to laugh off competing designs.. its only after that real strengths and weaknesses are revealed.

Millions of volts one the wing leading edges ? Electricaly charged skin ? ......... you do realize that the Voltage is applied in a pair.. you can't have positive without negative .. which way would the polarity be? To expell negatively charged particles from the rear ? how ? is the PAK FA going to have an ION engine ?
You do realize that the color of the sky you see from the ground is not the same you see from above or sides or sides from a distance ?
is the pak Fa going to be calculating the angles of refraction and produce different colors for its top, bottom and sides ?? and do that constantly ? .................................. wow.. .. and if it flies over the sea ? is it going to turn dark blue on the top ?

amalakas I wasnt referring to you when i said said "School Boys", I have read your comments and they make sense till now. In regards to the questions you have aske, they are too broad and require way too much information. When one talks about visual stealth we do not refers to Mr.India type invisibility but concealing the aircraft as much as possible. It is quite an obvious answer that true visual stealth has not been achieved by anyone yet. If you want to know more about how visual stealth please search about it on Google. There is enough info about it as it is used on the F-22 as well as the B-2 spirit.

Your comment about giving more information is valid but do you think it makes a difference. Many Indian members here have posted detailed analysis about Indian and Russian tech on this forum only to be ridiculed even further by people who don’t know the difference between apples and oranges. I don’t plan to waste my time to write an essay about what I know, to then have some fanboy come up with a non-sense counter argument and also then accuse me of trolling lol. If you need detailed info about the PAKFA as well as info about what the sukhoi engineers really said please feel free to msg me personally.

P.s. having a PHD does not guarantee that your smart and know what your doing

 

[amalakas]

P.s. having a PHD does not guarantee that your smart and know what your doing

Hahahahahaha ..that is so true actually...

 

[desiman]

Hahahahahaha ..that is so true actually...

Yup it is, my boss also has one cough cough

 

[gambit]

People here don’t understand the meaning of Prototype lol. And those who don’t should not be on this forum. Really guys common it’s the first time this jet was unvelved and people here are already comparing it to the F-22 and F-35,...

Yes...Quite often it is the Russians and the Chinese who are comparing the PRAT-FALL with the F-22 and F-35. lol.

In its final form the PAKFA will be by all means second only to the F-22.

But did you just criticize others for making comparisons?

Enough money and expertise is being poured into the program...

If a PhD does not mean one knows everything, as you said, then throwing plenty of money at a project does not mean it will succeed. Right, comrade?

...and no school boy here has any idea the amount of work that goes into getting an aircraft of such magnitude into the air.

I do. At least some.

Let me explain stealth tech...

Yes...We shall see.

The idea is for the radar antenna to send out a burst of radio energy, which is then reflected back by any object it happens to encounter. The radar antenna measures the time it takes for the reflection to arrive, and with that information can tell how far away the object is.

The language is crude but acceptable.

The metal body of an airplane is very good at reflecting radar signals, and this makes it easy to find and track airplanes with radar equipment.

All bodies, from organic to metallic, reflects an impinging EM wave. But essentially, a hard body, such as that of a metal or even plastic, reflects more energy.

The goal of stealth technology is to make an airplane invisible to radar.

Nothing is 'invisible' to radar detection. We can detect raindrops, albeit in cluster, but detect them nevertheless.

There are two different ways to create invisibility:
• The airplane can be shaped so that any radar signals it reflects are reflected away from the radar equipment.
• The airplane can be covered in materials that absorb radar signals.

No violations of the laws of physics here.

Most conventional aircraft have a rounded shape. This shape makes them aerodynamic, but it also creates a very efficient radar reflector. The round shape means that no matter where the radar signal hits the plane, some of the signal gets reflected back:

Wrong...A sphere or curve is a natural radar low observability planform due to the 'creeping wave' effect...

Creeping wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Creeping waves greatly extend the ground wave propagation of long wavelength (low frequency) radio. They also cause both of a person's ears to hear a sound, rather than only the ear on the side of the head facing the origin of the sound. In radar ranging, the creeping wave return appears to come from behind the target.

A stealth aircraft, on the other hand, is made up of completely flat surfaces and very sharp edges.

Wrong...You are seriously out of date, buddy. First...What is casually thrown out as 'stealth' is properly called 'radar avoidance' or being a 'noncooperative' target. An airliner is a 'cooperative' target, it wants everyone to know it is out there. In contrast, hostile aircrafts, be it a fighter or even the giant C-5, because they have hostile intents, they want to be 'noncooperative'. Second...Flying below the radar horizon make ANY aircraft a 'noncooperative' target, hence automatically a 'stealth' aircraft. Throwing out a lot of ECM measures also make an aircraft a 'noncooperative' target.

When a radar signal hits a stealth plane, the signal reflects away at an angle, like this:

Like what? Did you missed a copy/paste somewhere after the colon? Looks like you are lifting your arguments from someone else's.

In addition,...

In addition to what? You cannot say 'in addition' without giving the readers some previous info. You may want to review whatever sources you have the next time you want to copy/paste your arguments.

...surfaces on a stealth aircraft can be treated so they absorb radar energy as well. The overall result is that a stealth aircraft like an F-117A can have the radar signature of a small bird rather than an airplane.

The F-22 uses far less absorbers than the F-117 and it has a lower overall RCS. On the F-22, absorbers are most prominent on leading edges such as intakes and control surfaces. To achieve such radar low observability, the F-22 and F-35 uses mostly curves to exploit the 'creeping wave' effect. There are some angled faceting and some absorbers.

The only exception is when the plane banks -- there will often be a moment when one of the panels of the plane will perfectly reflect a burst of radar energy back to the antenna.

No problem there.

One of the technologies that the PAKFA will unitize which is also used by the F-22 and F-35 is called Facing. Which is to incorporate angels into the structure of the aircraft so that it can diffuse all sort of signals such as radar and give it the so called “Low observance”.

Proper word is 'faceting' or the phrase 'angled faceting'. The F-117 used this technique prominently. The F-22 and F-35 considerably less. See 'creeping wave' effect.

The problem is that one cannot have 100% stealth because of the fact that the design must be able to fly. Even Aircraft such as the F-22 cannot fly without the help of sophisticated “Fly by wire” technology.

What kind of explanation is that? Fly-by-wire in analog form was in the F-16. Prior to that, we have computer assisted 'stability augmentation' in mechnical flight control systems.

Another technique that may be used on the PAKFA but not yet confirmed is to charge the leading edges of the aircraft with millions of volts of electricity when in flight this pushed positively air particles ahead of the aircraft at the same time negatively charged are expelled from the jet exhaust. This will help push the aircraft through the air by softening the sound barrier an essential to the “Super cruise theory “and will also reduce sound and the vapor contrail of the engines. The created electric fields also eat into the radar waves further reducing its RCS signature. The PAKFA will also be coated with a electrically charged skin light emitting polymer paint. This will help the PAKFA in 2 ways – the charged skin absorbs radar waves but will also glow when charged allowing the aircraft to change it brightness automatically to blend in the sky giving true stealth and invisibility even in daylight.

Not going to bother with this one.

 

[amalakas]

Quote:
Originally Posted by desiman View Post
Another technique that may be used on the PAKFA but not yet confirmed is to charge the leading edges of the aircraft with millions of volts of electricity when in flight this pushed positively air particles ahead of the aircraft at the same time negatively charged are expelled from the jet exhaust. This will help push the aircraft through the air by softening the sound barrier an essential to the “Super cruise theory “and will also reduce sound and the vapor contrail of the engines. The created electric fields also eat into the radar waves further reducing its RCS signature. The PAKFA will also be coated with a electrically charged skin light emitting polymer paint. This will help the PAKFA in 2 ways – the charged skin absorbs radar waves but will also glow when charged allowing the aircraft to change it brightness automatically to blend in the sky giving true stealth and invisibility even in daylight.
Not going to bother with this one.

haha..was wondering when you will get your hands on this post.
Electricaly charged skin !!! You have to wonder..all that static electricity due to friction with the air ..why did they try to get rid of it all these years...they should have kept it..airplanes would be invisible since the first jet flew....