My family fought for Pakistan

[Venkat]

1 of our sabers got hit a bullet went into its fuel tank( ground Fire ) in Bangladesh we saw him ejecting from our base me and one of my course mates took the jeep and went after him, It took us 10 min to reach there and we sa

Oh, one more correction so that the history is straight and not get inaccurate No pakistani sabre was shot down by ground fire in bangladesh. all Sabres that went down - were shot down in air combat fair and square.

And the pilot would have ejected close to dacca - because thats where the fights usually happened.

 

[MOSABJA]

There is nothing called "Bengali River". And Bangaldeshi are not starving, even if that is an image that brings great solace to you as a sop to your anger that Bengalees cocked a snoot at you.

Did you forget about Farraka dam.17 of bangladeshi rivers have already dried up.INDIANS did not dare to build that when it was east pakistan.8 are on the verge of drying.

“Today, Bangladesh does not get the water it needs during the summer due to the barrage, and a vast area of Bangladesh is (becoming desert) because of the scarcity of natural flow of water from Indian river Ganga, which is named the Padma river in the Bangladesh part,” alleged Dr Ainun Nishat, country representative of IUCN Bangladesh.

Bangladeshis have not ever thought their independence to be a "mistake. If they did, then they would have rejoined Pakistan. Let your anguish of Bangladeshi having parted ways and proved that they were better men than be a second rate citizen not give way to your dreams.

You r right that Bangladeshis right now are not longing to get into Pakistan.I just wanted to say that the HEARTS are SOFTENING.Event though U being an INDIAN will not like but this is a fact .Iqbals poetry is an example.

Yes they were treated as 2 class citizens but thats why they will not join pakistan again they just want good relations with PAKISTAN which I said Pakistan could turn into Confed.

If indeed Bangladesh is to join a Military Confederation, then why should it be Pakistan? She is very friendly with China. Don't you think it is better to have a budding super power to a country which is not a superpower and is in itself having problems?

I said it in a long term.For this purpose.
*Pakistan will have to give total rights to its own provinces and be a democratic country.Get rid of NATO menace on its head.BE AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY AS IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE .ENFORCE LAW OF SHARIAH ad Mr JINNAH said"pakistani law was made 1300 years ago"

**CHINA cannot replace Pakistan Viz a Vis Bangladesh.First of all Chinese will never have a military confederation with any country even PAKISTAN.
**China has its own goals Viz a Vis India .it want good relations.Pakistan relations Viz a Vis India are analogue to bangladesh(India is choking water of both countries)
** remember that even a person like MUJIB UR REHMAN said that BANGLADESH could be a nuclear power by co operating with PAKISTAN.If Mujib could have such a desire then why cant ordinary Bengali.

In Bangladesh, the ultra religious parties are on the run and is not gaining any credence. Heard of Bangla something or the other who was recently executed amongst others?

Bro you have given the answer of your question.Heard of Bangla was executed .What was the need of him to be executed ?????
It means there is some sort of islamic movement gaining in Bangla.
Bangladesh has seen a rapid growth of political Islam. The main religious political party is Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh (JIB - a sister organization of Jamaat-e-Islami, in Pakistan).

On many occasions, the CWI in Pakistan, the Socialist Movement Pakistan (SMP), has made the point that Bangladesh has become a new fortress for religious fanatics. Now this has been confirmed by the international media. According to the recent report in the ‘New York Times’, 10,000 Islamists regrouped, on 23 January, under the banner of ‘Jagrata Muslim Janata’ (JMJ), in northern Bangladesh. This group want to place several provinces under Islamic laws. This group has so far killed 22 left wing activists.

There are 2 million madresah student in Bangladesh in 64000 seminaries

Read Bangladeshi newspapers to know Bangladesh and not Jang. BTW, what has Jang said? In fact, Jang is also keen that Pakistan takes a tailspin. Heard of Geo TV?

Facts, not fiction should guide your thoughts!

YOu can say what ever you want .But Both countries want good relations and specially a UNION against India to protect our waters .

 

[MOSABJA]

All that "brother" stuff is humbug


This ummah thing is utopia. If it were so, what has taken the Moslem world all this time and still not achieving the same? Where is the delay if ummah was all that a driving force?

Friend, let us face reality and not dream.

Crimes in Mumbai are not the same as separatist tendencies as MQM!

May I request you to face reality and not dream?

Umma concept is not a UTOPIA.Desire for caliphate and shariah is in the mind of every muslim but the desire has been crushed .US and FREEMASONS are trying desperately to stop Caliphate



.Go in SOMALIA and see the poor blacks chanting ALLAHUAKBAR.But the next day they enforced shariah they were BOMBED.
Go in Chechnya and see the White tall caucasians rasing flag of Shahadah.Only 3 years after the enforced shariah in Chechen republic Russia invaded.
Go in Egypt where Ikhwanulmuslimoon is gaining popularity.But is brutally cracked down by HUSNI MUBARAK PUPPET
Go in indonesia where hundreds of Muslims carrying Batons burnt night clubs.THEIR LEADER WERE HANGED BY INDONESIA
Go in Bangladesh where 2 million students study in madressah alone.BANGLA WAS EXECUTED
Go in Cent asia.In uzbekistan Uzbek islamic Movement controlled capital for 3 days.KARIMOV KILLED HUNDREDS OF INNOCENTS AND BOILED MUSLIMS
Go to Tajikistan where there had been a 5 years civil war between islamist parties and Communists.IT WAS CRUSHED WITH RUSSIAN SUPPORT
Go to Algeria where Islamic salvation front WIPED all seats in parliament but Army denied them


So you see that in all Muslim countries specially after 911 ISLAMIC MOVEMENTS are gaining strength but hey are crushed .BUT REMEMBER THAT IF YOU ARE A MUSLIM THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO BELIEVE IN WHAT PROPHET SAID


Hudhayfah son of Al-Yaman reported that the Messenger of Allah sallalluhu 'alayhi wa sallam said,

"Prophethood (meaning himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain, then Allah will raise it up whenever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, he will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of oppressive (The reign of Muslim kings who are partially unjust) rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood." Then Hudhayfah said, "The Prophet stopped speaking."

(As-Sililah As Sahihah, vol. 1, no. 5. The same hadith without any change of a word is also narrated by Hadrat Nauman Ibn-e-Basheer Radiyallaho Anhu in Musnad-e-Ahmad Ibn-e-Hanbal.)

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I understand your views but I am interested in the ground situation and not fantasies or in the futile blame game to cover up inherent flaws!

What is in the hearts and minds and not manifested on the ground is not worth considering or debate since it will be mere punching the thin air .

Action and ground realities are the key issues for reckoning!

 

[BATMAN]

Salim, to which part are you reffering as fantasy.
As usuall, it is almost impossible to see your point.
I'm always struggling to connect your sentences and find the hidden message.

 

[BATMAN]

Oh, one more correction so that the history is straight and not get inaccurate No pakistani sabre was shot down by ground fire in bangladesh. all Sabres that went down - were shot down in air combat fair and square.

And the pilot would have ejected close to dacca - because thats where the fights usually happened.

And what do you think you are doing here.
You know your facts does not match with ours, if you are interested to know the other side of story than listen otherwise just leave.
Indian forums are the ideal place where you get accolades for lies.
BTW, what is your reputaion visa vi a well cultured man made of honor and principals.

 

[MastanKhan]

Venkat,

Thankyou for your post. Are you concerned to tell us who you are?
The info is not beyond the scope of normal intro---as a matter of fact it is a standard procedure on any defence related site or any other discussion group--- .

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Salim, to which part are you reffering as fantasy.
As usuall, it is almost impossible to see your point.
I'm always struggling to connect your sentences and find the hidden message.

I am sorry that you did not understand and think there are hidden messages.

The Da Vinci Code!!

I allude to the 'brother' stuff.

 

[ejaz007]

The reality is that the people of Bangladesh have started to realize that the events of 1971 were exaggerated and presented to them by International media especially Indian media in the wrong way. Incompetence of both East and West Pakistan politicians also had a negative impact. International conspiracy was also at work. Still the end result was the partition of the country by ARMED AGGRESSION not by the resistance of the people of East Pakistan.
Even the stories of mass genocide and rape by Pakistan Army have recently been put into question by some.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The reality is that the people of Bangladesh have started to realize that the events of 1971 were exaggerated and presented to them by International media especially Indian media in the wrong way. Incompetence of both East and West Pakistan politicians also had a negative impact. International conspiracy was also at work. Still the end result was the partition of the country by ARMED AGGRESSION not by the resistance of the people of East Pakistan.
Even the stories of mass genocide and rape by Pakistan Army have recently been put into question by some.

The websites of Bangaladesh does not indicate that the people of Bangladesh have had any change of heart over the Liberation. Nor do the Bengali newspaper point to this direction.

Therefore, I have constrained to surmise that the post is your own perception.

It would also give the Indian Army a superhuman capability and total brilliance if indeed you were right that the East Pakistan people did not put up resistance. The rallies following the Liberation is adequate proof of their involvement as also their jubilation.

It is only when Mujib overreached himself, did he fall from the pedestal!

 

[salman nedian]

The websites of Bangaladesh does not indicate that the people of Bangladesh have had any change of heart over the Liberation. Nor do the Bengali newspaper point to this direction.

Therefore, I have constrained to surmise that the post is your own perception.

It would also give the Indian Army a superhuman capability and total brilliance if indeed you were right that the East Pakistan people did not put up resistance. The rallies following the Liberation is adequate proof of their involvement as also their jubilation.

It is only when Mujib overreached himself, did he fall from the pedestal!

Whatever it is past now, Bangladeshis want good relations with Pakistan we need to define a road map guys suggest roadmaps.

 

[Muradk]

And what do you think you are doing here.
You know your facts does not match with ours, if you are interested to know the other side of story than listen otherwise just leave.
Indian forums are the ideal place where you get accolades for lies.
BTW, what is your reputaion visa vi a well cultured man made of honor and principals.

Bat dont worry buddy this Discussion is over. lets give him one more chance.
To tell you the truth if Mr. Salim Sahib tells me what he did in 71 war, I will believe him WHY, Because I was'nt there and most Officers who have gone through hell meaning War dont lie.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

MuradK,

Sir,

I fought on the Western Front in the actual war.

I was there in the Eastern sector immediately after the war.

In fact, going to Bangladesh had become a pastime, since no passport or visa was required and taking a bus was very cheap! It is also true that Indians, especially Bengalees were not allowed to reimburse their hospitality!

My uncle's classmate who used to come to India regularly for business, and who used to stay with us when he was in Kolkata, was our host there. So, my experience was totally from the civilian point of view.

The current situation is that because of problems with India, Bangladesh is not very enamoured with India. The souring of relations has been during Khaleda Zia's time since because she was a Pakistani officers wife, there is no doubt that she had fond memories of her days in Pakistan, more so, since the Army has a prime position in Pakistani societal life and governance and so the elite of the elite! It is in her time, the terrorists and separatists of India were given shelter.

Right now, the interim govt of Bangladesh is trying to clean the system, that like Pakistan, the politicians have bled it red.

There is no doubt that Bangladesh should have good relations with Pakistan given the triad with China. However, to state that they are thinking of an union because of their being Moslem and for upholding it for the ummah, is not a correct assessment.

In Kolkata, there is a whole lot of Bangladeshi of all social strata and they do interact and being Bengalees, there is less of inhibitions to speak their mind with us, notwithstanding the difference in religion.

 

[salman nedian]

MuradK,
There is no doubt that Bangladesh should have good relations with Pakistan given the triad with China. However, to state that they are thinking of an union because of their being Moslem and for upholding it for the ummah, is not a correct assessment.

every one make mistakes there were mistakes from both sides but the main thing is learning from those mistakes. you cannot involve religion with state affairs b/c it is the ideology of your country but since our ideology is different and Pak and BD were one country so there might be timely differences but the ideology remains same.

I was also suggesting this that China should be involved in developing good relations b/w both the countries and BD can automatically develop good relations with China when they develop their ties with Pakistan.

Union of Ummah is at some distance at this point but Union of Pak and BD will create a roll model for Ummah.

 

[MOSABJA]

i think that RE UNIOIN is a far of thing but what i think is that Bangladesh and Pakistan can have very ood relations and if we turn this ood relations into Military confederation then it would be a good thing.China can only have good relations with any country it can never have military confederation/BUT PAKISTAN AND BANGLADESH CAN HAVE.

Even Sheikh mujib ur Rehman said that Bangladesh can become a nuclear power by collaborating with pakistan.If Mujib can have this desire then why cant a ORDINARY BENGALI


I dont say that PAKISTAN DIDNT OPRESS BAGLADESH
that BANGLADESHIS DIDNT WANT INDEPENDENT
that BANGLADESHIS WNAT REUNION

But just this due to indian attitude and changing mind set,
If pakistan solves its own problems
MAKE IT A WELFARE SELF.
MAKE ITSELF AN ISLAMIC STATE.
GIVE ITS PROVINCES TOTAL AUTONOMY .
IF WE GET RID OF NATO MENACE ON OUR HEAD.
IF WE EXPLOIT GWADAR PORT TO GET billions $ transit fees
IF WE EXPLOIT OUR 27 BILLION BARREL PIL,250 TRILLON CUBIC FEET GAS,HIGH LEVEL OF GOLD AND URANIUM AND
MILITARY POWER+ECONOMIC POWER+ISLAMIC WELFARE STATE only then BANGLADSH CAN LOOK FOR A MILITARY CONFEDERATION WITH PAKISTAN.
It will never be re united.
Confed is possible in case we make ourselves strong and BENGALIS start needing us.Remember necessity is the mother of invention.

Again i am not an idealist.i just gave a scenario .if this Happens though chances are less BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE then we can lok for bangladesh but right now no way so the bottom line is PAKISTANN SHOULD TRY TO GET ITS HOUSE IN ORDER BEFORE LOOKING IN OTHERS.