My family fought for Pakistan

[Venkat]

It is not a nice story at all. His name is SA khan God Bless his soul, the person with me was Atta-Ur-Rehman a bangali Officer and a good fighter pilot retired as a Air vice Marshal from PAF. what was there to write or tell. The whole event is recorded and written The Library in Air command & Staff College has the complete version.

And Venkat I ask this from everyone and will ask you too. Please go to the intro section and introduce your self so we know who you are.
THK.

Will do the intro - not much there to intro myself (I am an Indian, my name is Venkat and my interest is history - what more to tell?) - but let me check the thread.

Regarding your deceased friend SA Khan who ejected in EP and was killed by the MB. Officially the PAF still believed he is missing and not killed. Both the PAF Histories speculate that he was missing but does not give the story of his death. Perhaps you may want to write to the PAF HQ and ask them to set their records straight? Even as recent as 1998 that gp capt who writes stories on defence journal wrote the same thing and did not tell this story. Or does the PAF NOT want to tell the story (for reasons best known to them)?

 

[roadrunner]

If your brotherly concerns were so intense, you would not have left East Pakistan so defenceless, fending for itself as also not taken them to be inferior a race (as is so evident from the internet and compounded by the observations of Road Runner, who has total contempt for Bengalis and obviously, he is not alone in such a racist feeling)

Quote one thing of what I said that was racist. Stop accusing and wallowing in self-pitiful delusion that you're a victim of some fictitious abuse.

I could quote some racial attitudes you have, and have expressed on here.

 

[Muradk]

Will do the intro - not much there to intro myself (I am an Indian, my name is Venkat and my interest is history - what more to tell?) - but let me check the thread.

Regarding your deceased friend SA Khan who ejected in EP and was killed by the MB. Officially the PAF still believed he is missing and not killed. Both the PAF Histories speculate that he was missing but does not give the story of his death. Perhaps you may want to write to the PAF HQ and ask them to set their records straight? Even as recent as 1998 that gp capt who writes stories on defence journal wrote the same thing and did not tell this story. Or does the PAF NOT want to tell the story (for reasons best known to them)?

Gp Cap Hali wrote what is in Kaiser's Book. The Father and mother of the shaheed know the true event. What Kaiser has in his books or even
Air Cdre Khalees Book they only say murdered by rebles and yours Bharat Rakshak says the same. And Son you dont want to know the details .

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Venkat,

World armies, normally donot disclose the method a soldier died, if the act was gruesome. It is a standard practise world wide and all armies stick to it. There is no reason to get the civilians involved---the families are already traumatized. You don't want to add to their despair. It is also for giving dignity to the victim who faced a gruesome ending.

For your intro---we would like to know what you do, what age group you are in---where you are located at, so that we know where you are coming from when we see your input. Thankyou.

Just for your information---there was this country in eastern europe---and there was this guy---he started out by telling the people how their countrymen died years ago by the aggressors. He even dug up the graves of his dead ancestors to make his point---Balkans has never been the same since then. So, let us not start it over here.

 

[MOSABJA]

It is not some thing very much Impossible.


In jang if you read recent articles.Bengalis are now beginning to realize that there separation with pakistan was as mistake.The real thing is that INDIA HAS NOW BUILT A DAM ON BENGALI RIVER AND IS NOW STARVING BENGALIS also INDIA has occupied BENGALI ISLANDS.This Indian attitude is creating lots of hatred among Bengalis for the INDIANS.Despite separation from Pakistan the Bengalis have not gone too far there reserves are 3 times less then that of Pakistan Plus despite restricting the military personnels to 100000 MILTARY still intervenes.

Bengalis were loyal to pakistan and in 1965 war GREAT FUND was collected from DHAKA.

Right now the IQBALS POETRY is now getting popular in Bangladesh .Parties like Jamaat e Islam and HARKATULMUJAHIDEEN ALISLAM are gaining popularity.If pakistani gov keeps a close eye on the developements in Bangladesh then if not EAST PAKISTAN .BANGLADESH COULD ATLEAST HAVE A MILITARY CONFEDERATION WITH PAKISTAN with in next 10 years.There is a concencus among Bangladeshi people that they need good relations with Pakistan to thwart indian INFLUENCE plus Islamic groups are gaining popularity fastly and we turn this desire for good relation into CONFEDERATION(IT WOULD BE A NIGHT MARE FOR INDIANS)

 

[salman nedian]

good to know that Allama Iqbal's poetry is again gaining popularity.we should develop good relations not for threatining others but for the sake of Ideology(Two Nation Theory) and betterment of our people

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is not some thing very much Impossible.


In jang if you read recent articles.Bengalis are now beginning to realize that there separation with pakistan was as mistake.The real thing is that INDIA HAS NOW BUILT A DAM ON BENGALI RIVER AND IS NOW STARVING BENGALIS also INDIA has occupied BENGALI ISLANDS.This Indian attitude is creating lots of hatred among Bengalis for the INDIANS.Despite separation from Pakistan the Bengalis have not gone too far there reserves are 3 times less then that of Pakistan Plus despite restricting the military personnels to 100000 MILTARY still intervenes.

Bengalis were loyal to pakistan and in 1965 war GREAT FUND was collected from DHAKA.

Right now the IQBALS POETRY is now getting popular in Bangladesh .Parties like Jamaat e Islam and HARKATULMUJAHIDEEN ALISLAM are gaining popularity.If pakistani gov keeps a close eye on the developements in Bangladesh then if not EAST PAKISTAN .BANGLADESH COULD ATLEAST HAVE A MILITARY CONFEDERATION WITH PAKISTAN with in next 10 years.There is a concencus among Bangladeshi people that they need good relations with Pakistan to thwart indian INFLUENCE plus Islamic groups are gaining popularity fastly and we turn this desire for good relation into CONFEDERATION(IT WOULD BE A NIGHT MARE FOR INDIANS)

First of all, if you want to make a point, please make it with facts and not just hit the keyboard and become an uncontrolled and unguided thingummybob.

There is nothing called "Bengali River". And Bangaldeshi are not starving, even if that is an image that brings great solace to you as a sop to your anger that Bengalees cocked a snoot at you.

Bangladeshis have not ever thought their independence to be a "mistake. If they did, then they would have rejoined Pakistan. Let your anguish of Bangladeshi having parted ways and proved that they were better men than be a second rate citizen not give way to your dreams.

Bengalees, like it or not, are accommodating for the general good, but are not carpets to be treaded upon. Do it and you are up a gum tree, I assure you. Bangladesh proved it so. Read honest history, without coloured lenses, and you realise the verity of existence.

If indeed Bangladesh is to join a Military Confederation, then why should it be Pakistan? She is very friendly with China. Don't you think it is better to have a budding super power to a country which is not a superpower and is in itself having problems?

In Bangladesh, the ultra religious parties are on the run and is not gaining any credence. Heard of Bangla something or the other who was recently executed amongst others?

Read Bangladeshi newspapers to know Bangladesh and not Jang. BTW, what has Jang said? In fact, Jang is also keen that Pakistan takes a tailspin. Heard of Geo TV?

Facts, not fiction should guide your thoughts!

 

[salman nedian]

Bangladeshis have not ever thought their independence to be a "mistake. If they did, then they would have rejoined Pakistan. Let your anguish of Bangladeshi have parted way and proved that they were better men than be a second rate citizen not give way to your dreams. Bengalees, like it or not, are accommodating for the general good but are not carpets to be tread upon. Bangladesh proved it so. Read honest history, without coloured lenses, and you realise the verity of existence.

If indeed Bangladesh is to join a Military Confederation, then why should it be Pakistan? She is very friendly with China. Don't you think it is better to have a budding super power to a country which is not a superpower and is in itself having problems?

what is the problem with Pakistan? Pakistan is also becoming a power also the fact is we got independance from India in the name of Islam this is the binding force and this bond can never be broken.I invite you to visit Karachi you will see that they are not the second class citizen.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

what is the problem with Pakistan? Pakistan is also becoming a power also the fact is we got independance from India in the name of Islam this is the binding force and this bond can never be broken.I invite you to visit Karachi you will see that they are not the second class citizen.

Let us not get into this.

What power is Pakistan becoming? With all due respect, I have read nothing on this issue.

Islam is a fine, but realpolitik is different. Indeed, if Islam superseded realpolitik and the ground realities, then we would not have these posts from Proud to be Pakistani , Mosqab and other exhorting Islam over other issues that seem to be plaguing the Islamic world!

So, while I appreciate the issue of ummah, I would like to mention that is indeed only an utopia since the Islamic countries are not subscribing to it or else the ummah should have come!

Surely, there must be some disconnect between the desire and the reality. As a Moslem, you would be the best judge as to why it is not happening!

I have been to Karachi when I was a child. Lovely place. But then ask MQM. If I would have to visit, I rather visit elsewhere where I am not on guard 24x7.

 

[salman nedian]

Let us not get into this.

What power is Pakistan becoming? With all due respect, I have read nothing on this issue.

Islam is a fine, but realpolitik is different. Indeed, if Islam superseded realpolitik and the ground realities, then we would not have these posts from Proud to be Pakistani , Mosqab and other exhorting Islam over other issues that seem to be plaguing the Islamic world!

So, while I appreciate the issue of ummah, I would like to mention that is indeed only an utopia since the Islamic countries are not subscribing to it or else the ummah should have come!

Surely, there must be some disconnect between the desire and the reality. As a Moslem, you would be the best judge as to why it is not happening!

I have been to Karachi when I was a child. Lovely place. But then ask MQM. If I would have to visit, I rather visit elsewhere where I am not on guard 24x7.

When you live in a house all sort of things happen I used to fight with my brother a lot but does it mean that he is not my brother?

Similar is the issue with both Pak and BD if we form good relations that will be the first step for close ties b/w Ummah and will ensure peace in the world.

Karachi is a beautiful place.MQM is representative party of Karachi and Hyderabad and street crimes are there all over the world including Bombay so don’t bother about that.

MQM has realized that we have to live together and it is great that they are no more "Muhajir Qaumi Movement"(Muhajir National Movement) now they are "Muttahida Qaumi Movement"(United National Movement).

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

When you live in a house all sort of things happen I used to fight with my brother a lot but does it mean that he is not my brother?

Similar is the issue with both Pak and BD if we form good relations that will be the first step for close ties b/w Ummah and will ensure peace in the world.

Karachi is a beautiful place.MQM is representative party of Karachi and Hyderabad and street crimes are there all over the world including Bombay so don’t bother about that.

MQM has realized that we have to live together and it is great that they are no more "Muhajir Qaumi Movement"(Muhajir National Movement) now they are "Muttahida Qaumi Movement"(United National Movement).

All that "brother" stuff is humbug

By that misplaced logic, then India should be back to its original form! After all, we are brothers!

This ummah thing is utopia. If it were so, what has taken the Moslem world all this time and still not achieving the same? Where is the delay if ummah was all that a driving force?

Friend, let us face reality and not dream.

Crimes in Mumbai are not the same as separatist tendencies as MQM!

May I request you to face reality and not dream?

 

[salman nedian]

All that "brother" stuff is humbug

By that misplaced logic, then India should be back to its original form! After all, we are brothers!

This ummah thing is utopia. If it were so, what has taken the Moslem world all this time and still not achieving the same? Where is the delay if ummah was all that a driving force?

Hindus and Muslims are not brothers there is a difference in Ideology.

Let us try to achieve this Utopia coz you have to see dreams to fulfill them.

Crimes in Mumbai are not the same as separatist tendencies as MQM!

MQM is Government and Government cant be separatists.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Hindus and Muslims are not brothers there is a difference in Ideology.

Rather an unfortunate statement!

I am am sure you would claim to a Syed or a Shiek and a direct descendant of the Prophet. If all were direct descendants, then there would be something wrong, right?

Everyone else is but a convertee and so not a direct descendant to claim pure Moslem blood as deemed by being a descendant of the originator of the religion!

Religion does not transcend genes, heritage and culture!

One cannot be a Arab thoroughbred by sheer wishful thinking!

Let us try to achieve this Utopia coz you have to see dreams to fulfill them.

The world awaits with bated breath for you to decide!

The world has no dreams to fulfil.

MQM is Government and Government cant be separatists.

Really?

 

[salman nedian]

Rather an unfortunate statement!

I am am sure you would claim to a Syed or a Shiek and a direct descendant of the Prophet. If all were direct descendants, then there would be something wrong, right?

Everyone else is but a convertee and so not a direct descendant to claim pure Moslem blood as deemed by being a descendant of the originator of the religion!

Religion does not transcend genes, heritage and culture!

One cannot be a Arab thoroughbred by sheer wishful thinking!

No I am not a Syed or Shaikh I am just a Muslim and also of Indian origin and I consider each and every Muslim as equal and brother but unfortunately Hindus and Muslims are far different from each other it doesn’t mean that we should harm each other we respect every religion.

Really?

Yes Really.

 

[Venkat]

Mastan,

I am not saying they have to describe it graphically. But for many years till very recently it has been published several times that this was all hypothesis - that they "may" have been captured and that they "may" have been killed. If there was confirmation, they should have confirmed it then not thirty years later.

The families were left in the dark for years - knowing their loved ones are 'missing' - and a confirmation would have helped them get closure.

Anyways, MuradK mentioned that hte latest book now lists them as killed - so if they got their version straight now - thats fine.

regarding intro , no offence but there is something called too much detail. - why should it matter - You know where I am coming from, I have told my nationality, my handle and my interest.

My age, what I do, where I live are beyond the scope of normal intro. I can claim to be a PhD or an unpad (illiterate), I can claim I am 65 years old to gain respectablity or 18 years old otherwise. I can claim I am a millionnaire doing timepass or just an intern with too much time on my hands - It really doesnt matter. does it? In the end you will judge me on the basis of my posts - not my background.

Hi Venkat,

World armies, normally donot disclose the method a soldier died, if the act was gruesome. It is a standard practise world wide and all armies stick to it. There is no reason to get the civilians involved---the families are already traumatized. You don't want to add to their despair. It is also for giving dignity to the victim who faced a gruesome ending.

For your intro---we would like to know what you do, what age group you are in---where you are located at, so that we know where you are coming from when we see your input. Thankyou.

Just for your information---there was this country in eastern europe---and there was this guy---he started out by telling the people how their countrymen died years ago by the aggressors. He even dug up the graves of his dead ancestors to make his point---Balkans has never been the same since then. So, let us not start it over here.