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My family fought for Pakistan

10 : 1

That is myth, as per the article, I posted written by a Pak officer, who himself scoffed at it.
 
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Very brave.

One man slaughters all Indian soldiers around him with weapons and a tank.

How come then he had to hide under a tank in the first place?

Good story.

Who are you trying to oil with such a ridiculous stories.

How many Indian soldiers did he slaughter?

Rambo is a fictional story.

I presume the remainder Bengalis were disloyal.

Indeed, if all Bengalis were so loyal, then how come Bangaldesh came into being?

It is the Razaakar and collaborators who were in the minority and were with the Pakistan Army.

Since you are still there in Bangladesh, why don't you stand up and announce your loyalty to Pakistan.

Let's see how many would be going along with you?

Why blame Yahyah and Bhutto?

They did what they thought was right.

How come your grandfather was unable to translate their message?

Obviously, you contention that Bengalis were loyal is only a way to worm yourself into being liked in this forum.

If Bengalis were so loyal, then they should have rejoined long back.

Why are they not rejoining?

Any answer?

You must remember though this is a Pakistani forum, there are many international citizens on this forum and they are not totally stupid!

What do you think? You can't leave then join like that. You're an Indian and I understand your sentiments. One man or even 20,000 can't transfer some message like that so easily.
 
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Salim,
Rambo is a fictional story but Bengalis fought very bravely during the 1965-71 wars. Remember M.M. Alam has a world record of shooting down 5 Indian planes in less then a minute. There are many Bengali war heroes in Pakistan Armed forces and we respect them.
:pakistan:

MM Alam is Bihari and not Bangali.
 
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Did he happen to slaughter 7 Indians to 1 Pakistani? I think that was the theoretical ratio talked about on average for the 1965 war :angel:

Tell us more. Did he use a hunting knife?

Not sure about the theoretical ratio about this thing. The only credible ratio that I have ever seen of the KIA of the two sides during the 65 war barely works out to 1:2. It was given in a book "From Crises to Crises" by Herbert Feldman printed around 67.
 
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Salim,

If majority of East Pakistanis or Beharis were against Pakistan than care to explain why India had to invade to capture East Pakistan. After all there were about 90,000-95,000 Pakistani soldiers against millions of East Pakistanis. No matter how strong a military is it can not overcome such odds. Latest examples are American and Nato led forces in Afghanistan. They have not been able to control Afghanistan despite having best technologies.

Please stop floating stories that do not have logical meaning. If majority of East Pakistanis would have been against West Pakistan than Mujib would not have been cold bloodedly killed by the Bangladesh army and if he was killed there would have been very very serious rioting on the streets. Nothing like that happened. After all he was the father of the new nation. Military does not act unless it has reasonable reasons to believe that people would not react to what they are going to do.

There was more to it than just East West Pakistan relations. One cannot ignore the broader conspiracy involved in the separation of East Pakistan.

Yahya is definitely to be blamed since he was the head of state at that moment and defending the country against all odds was his prime responsibility. I am not so sure about Bhutto’s involvement and therefore cannot comment on that.
 
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Ejaz,

One factual point. Pakistan Army numbers in East Pakistan did not exceed 45,000. This number has consistently been revised upwards by Indian sources to the point that everyone has started touting the 90K number.

On the issue of blaming for the East Pakistan debacle, based on what I have been able to research, it was not Yahya who was obstinate or against MR forming a national government over both wings. The resistance came from Bhutto. If you can blame Yahya Khan for anything, then its for not jailing Bhutto for being an idiot and for not letting Mujeeb form a government which he deserved to.

Also while one can blame Yahya for maybe boozing and womanizing based on the cultural norms of the day and morality, you can't blame the guy for breaking up the country. Yahya was a patriot even though he has been made out to be the villain of the breakup...I wonder how this came about?..Mr. Bhutto formed the next government and I hope you can see how Yahya's vilification provided the perfect out for Bhutto out of the mess that he (primarily) made in 1970-71.
 
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Salim,

If majority of East Pakistanis or Beharis were against Pakistan than care to explain why India had to invade to capture East Pakistan. After all there were about 90,000-95,000 Pakistani soldiers against millions of East Pakistanis. No matter how strong a military is it can not overcome such odds. Latest examples are American and Nato led forces in Afghanistan. They have not been able to control Afghanistan despite having best technologies.

Please stop floating stories that do not have logical meaning. If majority of East Pakistanis would have been against West Pakistan than Mujib would not have been cold bloodedly killed by the Bangladesh army and if he was killed there would have been very very serious rioting on the streets. Nothing like that happened. After all he was the father of the new nation. Military does not act unless it has reasonable reasons to believe that people would not react to what they are going to do.

There was more to it than just East West Pakistan relations. One cannot ignore the broader conspiracy involved in the separation of East Pakistan.

agreed :tup:
 
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I like azmax's avtaar he is proposing a Union.:pakistan:

But I have seen on azmax’s home page that he called the old Biharis traitors.
Can u please explain how can you claim that they were traitors?
 
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Blain 2,
I am not blaming Yahya for breaking up the country or he was involved in it. I am simply blaming him for not able to stop the break up of the country. He should have done every thing that he possibly could do to prevent it. I am blaming him because he was the Head of State at that moment and it was his duty to ensure the territorial integrity of the Pakistan. He failed in his job and for me he is solely responsible for that.
It is a different matter to discuss who did what and who was wrong and who right. I believe and agree with you that Mujeeb should have formed the government. He had the majority.
 
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The ratios were sometimes correct for individual battles, where one side had a decisive victory over the other. But as for the war as whole the casuality figures werent that much different.

According to this pakistani site, Independant sources put the casuality figures at 3000 Indian soldiers and 3800 Pakistani soldiers dead in the war of 1965.

itsPakistan - Pakistan - History of Pakistan

This claim is supported in this Indian site

India Pakistan Wars

Feel free to put your views forward.
 
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Salim,

If majority of East Pakistanis or Beharis were against Pakistan than care to explain why India had to invade to capture East Pakistan. After all there were about 90,000-95,000 Pakistani soldiers against millions of East Pakistanis. No matter how strong a military is it can not overcome such odds. Latest examples are American and Nato led forces in Afghanistan. They have not been able to control Afghanistan despite having best technologies.

Please stop floating stories that do not have logical meaning. If majority of East Pakistanis would have been against West Pakistan than Mujib would not have been cold bloodedly killed by the Bangladesh army and if he was killed there would have been very very serious rioting on the streets. Nothing like that happened. After all he was the father of the new nation. Military does not act unless it has reasonable reasons to believe that people would not react to what they are going to do.

There was more to it than just East West Pakistan relations. One cannot ignore the broader conspiracy involved in the separation of East Pakistan.

Yahya is definitely to be blamed since he was the head of state at that moment and defending the country against all odds was his prime responsibility. I am not so sure about Bhutto’s involvement and therefore cannot comment on that.

The fact that such a large area could be resoundedly defeated in just two weeks of battle should be adequate to know if the Bengalees were not with Indians or not!

Historically, it is better than the blitzkereig of the Germans, which is so fondly totuted in military history as a great achievement. If you wish to admit that the Indians are better than German or that the Pakistani Army was the most useless and unprofessional a force, I cannot dispel your view.

It is a total humbug that only 45.000 Pakistani military personnel were there in East Paksitan. If indeed, for argument;s sake agree, it shows the total deficit in the Pakistani Generalship and the political leadership that they had no clue how to defend a country, having totally gone awry in the Threat Analysis!

I have engaged the Pakistani Army many a time, and I would not like to agree with your contention that your Army is unprofessional, your Generalship incompetent and your political leadership totally at sea and vision-less!

Mujib was killed by Bangaldshi Army offiicers of the Paksitan Army. They were well conversant how to seize power, having lived a life where the Army called the shots, Democracy was not appealing to them out of force of habit. Nothing unusua.

You will notice the number of military govts you have had and Bangladesh is following even though they hardly have a history as a nation!

I am sure you will realise that your post is totally out of depth and forces others to defend the Pakistani Army.

May I also request that for every errror of history or present, don't go finding scapegoats and excuses.

Look within.

There must surely be some problems or else why is it that repeatedly Pakistan alone is unable to solve the issues that confront them?

I don't blame Yahyah.

He only inherited the legacy wherein Bengalees were not taken as equals and they were left to their own means and when they won the election, it shook all out of their wits resulting in chicanery that made Bengalees wild and they decided to go their own way.

Indeed, if Bengaless, were not keen on being on their own, because of the injsutice and unfairness meted out to them by the 'superiror' west Pakistanis, they should be clamouring to rejoin Pakistan. A feature one does not see at all!

I presume the case is of being once bitten, twice shy, inspite of having the same religion and the same cause for breaking away from India!

Another point about Mujib, is that he thought Bangladesh was his father's property and that was not what the Bengalees thought was right and hence there was no riots. Further, how many riots are there in Pakistan when the Army comes out?

Before letting your emotions take a grip over you, please think as to what replies you will receive.

In the otherwise pleasant environment here on this forum, your quirky and unsubtatiated post forced me to pen this post!
 
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Your an Indian and I can understand your anger. But he fought for the union before 1971, before the genocide. Let me tell you something Bengalis were and they will always be guerrilla fighters. The Pakistanis slaughtered and damaged us in 1971 but the Indians have damaged us more after 1971, Every month the BSF would kill innocent Bengalis in the border, and for what?


what bullsh!t....:smitten:

I do admire most pakistani for their balls...they are twice as courageous than some indians I have met...

I doubt bladeshi have guts...............

and that is the reason why they have gone back to Pak for help......

:azn:
 
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