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Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform

Good post.

Islam is on trial because majority of Muslims drag Islam into everything from bathroom, to restaurants, to offices to parliaments, to rag of paper constitutions.

If these ignoramus Muslims leave Islam in the mosque where it belongs.

Then no one will put Islam on trial. No one.

This type of behaviour is rather apparent with people in denial!

When you dont know the laws you will easily misuse them and even get away when you are knowledgeable you either will be too afraid that 1 day you will stand to answer for this and not commit it or the law will point you for what you are!

Now if "MAJORITY" as you like to put it...are I dont know wearing hijab, praying in their office, asking for Eid holidays and stuff like that is wrong then religious freedom is a fake

IF MAJORITY are walking down being shariah police and being on video camera and not getting caught then the MAN MADE LAW is also a sham as it did nothing to stop them

This is why moderation is needed....not too extreme that you misuse religious freedom and not too much rubbish that everything be covered with phobia!

As for leaving Islam in the mosque, if you have successfully done it, I congratulate you! But stop being the other side of the Mullah coin where when they force their version down your throat you try to ask them to leave their version in the Mosque....Please stop coz you show no difference between you and them!
 
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Many intellectuals ask the question "why islam is put to trial when blah blah blah?"

It is like asking "why you are closing your ears when I am screaming in them?"
Next question should be why are you trolling and screaming like a retard?
 
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none of them justify their crimes on the basis of their religion or drag its sacred verses when discussing their crimes.
Well that is good they dont they have enough brains and knowledge not to appear as a bigot....but Muslims be they liberal or not end up appearing to be the bigot by either bashing the religion or using it respectively!
 
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This type of behaviour is rather apparent with people in denial!

When you dont know the laws you will easily misuse them and even get away when you are knowledgeable you either will be too afraid that 1 day you will stand to answer for this and not commit it or the law will point you for what you are!

Now if "MAJORITY" as you like to put it...are I dont know wearing hijab, praying in their office, asking for Eid holidays and stuff like that is wrong then religious freedom is a fake

IF MAJORITY are walking down being shariah police and being on video camera and not getting caught then the MAN MADE LAW is also a sham as it did nothing to stop them

This is why moderation is needed....not too extreme that you misuse religious freedom and not too much rubbish that everything be covered with phobia!

As for leaving Islam in the mosque, if you have successfully done it, I congratulate you! But stop being the other side of the Mullah coin where when they force their version down your throat you try to ask them to leave their version in the Mosque....Please stop coz you show no difference between you and them!


Equating a police man to a robber Mullah/Ayatullah.

This is the biggest flaw in your argument.
 
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1stly you said so yourself FORCED....Islam already says no forcing in religion....no compulsion in religion...
No compulsion in religion is in name only. In reality, Muslim societies are the most oppressed ones. Once you are born a Muslim, your entire life becomes compulsory 'Islamic'.

So no that is not part of any religion and I already answered about your "Muslim country" rant
Sure do. Muslim majority countries still widely practice forced or arranged marriages.

Maybe not 16 yr olds of the TECHNICALLY ADVANCED 21st century but there were many Queens, warriors, generals who were 15-16 to prove they are mentally ready to know what something as responsibility means if they are not busy being bubbled wrapped by protection! And hence 16 yr old BACK THEN was acceptable age and even Science proves it!
Times change. Today's most 16 year olds are not mentally ready for marriage.

1stly, There is teenage pregnancy as accident then

S3x should never be a play like marriage isnt

Experimental s3x is not a play. Its just an experiment as part of human development.

As for no one applauding it...They actually have youngest British mothers on tabs
On tabs?

I never agreed on involuntary or arranged marriages...As I have said marriage in Islam relies on 3-4 principles :
Stable mental mind
Puberty
Consent of the girl
What about consent of the boy? :D

When you have consent it is also known as voluntary!
How come girls as young as 12-13 years give consent for marriage? Marriage is not only about marital s3x. Its alot more responsibility than that.

Sooo.....In that list alone I didnt find any Muslim
Try this:
Yemen%20child%20marriages1[1].JPG
MuslimChildMarriage[1].jpg
IslamChildBrides[1].jpg
Child-Bride-And-Disgusting-Husband[1].jpg
 
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Equating a police man to a robber Mullah/Ayatullah.
This is the biggest flaw in your argument.
When the Mullah is preaching my Islam is right and insiting by exerting force and the other side of the coin you doing the same in the opposite manner....Who or what difference do you see in your actions?

Like you question who made the Mullah a police same question can be asked who made you the police of forcing down your opinions?

I never brought in Ayatullah ( @Norwegian did so please refrain from going all Islamophobe!)
 
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Islam certainly needs "reform", but even more so do Christianity and Judaism. Moreover, capitalism and "western values" also need reform. Basically, we all need reform. Those who prefer to demonize one group over all others are not to be taken seriously, however. This includes the "Judeo-Christian West is good, Islam is bad" crowd. I don't take anything they say serously and never will, nor will I take seriously our own fundamentalist idiots.
 
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When the Mullah is preaching my Islam is right and insiting by exerting force and the other side of the coin you doing the same in the opposite manner....Who or what difference do you see in your actions?

Like you question who made the Mullah a police same question can be asked who made you the police of forcing down your opinions?

I never brought in Ayatullah ( @Norwegian did so please refrain from going all Islamophobe!)

Not sure what you are trying to imply here.
 
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No compulsion in religion is in name only. In reality, Muslim societies are the most oppressed ones. Once you are born a Muslim, your entire life becomes compulsory 'Islamic'
Not Islam's fault stop trying to grasp something to blame for the pathetic mentality of ignorant men!


Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way. [Quran 4:137]

If a person is allowed to be killed after the red statement how can he commit the blue and green one?

2ndly, ALLAH wont forgive them nothing to do with other men or shariah....it is clear it becomes a matter between man and ALLAH

Present to your family the verse I have posted twice on this thread and walk away! SIMPLE!


Sure do. Muslim majority countries still widely practice forced or arranged marriages.
Not Islam's problem and I already answered: Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform | Page 24


Times change. Today's most 16 year olds are not mentally ready for marriage.
Then it is the problem of the enforcer to see that not the problem with Islam coz the age has never been written as a number....but these facts have:

sane mind, puberty and consent (none of which existed before not as a law neither in the religion)


Experimental s3x is not a play. Its just an experiment as past of human development.
Well thats your opinion


Magazines and articles counting who was the youngest mother of UK!


What about consent of the boy?
Ok my bad consent in general....meaning of both parties...



How come girls as young as 12-13 years give consent for marriage? Marriage is not only about marital s3x. Its alot more responsibility than that.
Ask the celebrities


15 Years

David Brenner . . . Tai Babilonia
Michael Flatley . . . Lisa Murphy
Sean Penn . . . Charlize Theron
John Ritter . . . Amy Yasbeck
Jerry Soloman . . . Nancy Kerrigan
Roger Vadim . . . Catherine Deneuve
---------------
16 Years

Richard Dean Anderson . . . Apryl Prose
Luc Besson . . . Milla Jovovich
Richard Brinkmann . . . Mena Suvari
David Carradine . . . Marina Benjamin
Tom Cruise . . . Katie Holmes
John Derek . . . Linda Evans
Kevin Kline . . . Pheobe Cates
Robert Lange . . . Shania Twain
Ric Ocasek . . . Paulina Porizkova
J.D. Salinger . . . Jean Miller (He: 30. She: 14 when first met in 1949, a platonic relationship at first with mother's knowledge.)
Olivier Sarkozy . . . Mary-Kate Olsen
Bruce Willis . . . Karen McDougal
---------------
17 Years

George Clooney . . . Amal Alamuddin
Dustin Hoffman . . . Lisa Gottsegan
Dennis Quaid . . . Kimberly Buffington
Charles Saatchi . . . Nigella Lawson
Jerry Seinfeld . . . Jennifer Crittenden
Jean Todt . . . Michelle Yeoh
Donald Trump . . . Marla Maples
---------------
18 Years

Fabian Forte . . . Andrea Patrick
Don Johnson . . . Kelley Phleger
Paul McCartney . . . Nancy Shevell
John Mellencamp . . . Elaine Irwin
John O'Hurley . . . Lisa Mesloh
Gene Roddenberry . . . Majel Barrett
Christian Slater . . . Brittany Lopez
Patrick Stewart . . . Wendy Neuss
---------------
19 Years

Cary Grant . . . Betsy Drake
Anthony Hopkins . . . Stella Arroyave
Steve Martin . . . Kristin Davis
David Schwimmer . . . Zoe Buckman
---------------
20 Years

Prince Albert II of Monaco . . . Charlene Wittstock
Nicolas Cage . . . Alice Kim
John Rhys-Davies . . . Lisa Manning
Tony Curtis . . . Christine Kaufman
Les Moonves . . . Julie Chen
Stanley Tucci . . . Felicity Blunt
---------------
21 Years

Warren Beatty . . . Annette Bening
Peter Brant . . . Stephanie Seymour
Lee Majors . . . Karen Velez
Robert Redford . . . Sibylle Szaggars
Jerry Seinfeld . . . Shoshanna Lonstein
---------------
22 Years

Phil Collins . . . Orianne Cevey
Kevin Costner . . . Christine Baumgarten
Peter Gabriel . . . Meabh Flynn
Edward M. Kennedy . . . Victoria Reggie
Wayne Newton . . . Kathleen McCrane
Laurence Olivier . . . Joan Plowright
Carlo Ponti . . . Sophia Loren
Alan Thicke . . . Gina Tolleson
---------------
23 Years

Orson Bean . . . Alley Mills
Flavio Briatore . . . Heidi Klume
Harrison Ford . . . Calista Flockhart
John Forsythe . . . Nicole Carter
Frank Gifford . . . Kathie Lee Gifford (Kathie Lee Epstein)(same birthday: August 16)
Merle Haggard . . . Theresa Lane
Mick Jagger . . . L'Wren Scott
George Lazenby . . . Pam Shriver
Aristotle Onassis . . . Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy
Sylvester Stallone . . . Jennifer Flavin
Steven Tyler . . . Erin Brady
Bruce Willis . . . Brooke Burns
Bruce Willis . . . Emma Heming
Bruce Willis . . . Emily Sandberg
---------------
24 Years

Hugh Hefner . . . Barbi Benton
Judd Hirsch . . . Bonni (wife)
Rich Little . . . Catherine Brown
Malcolm McDowell . . . Kelley Kuhr
Chuck Norris . . . Gena O'Kelley
Fred Thompson . . . Jeri Kehn
Donald Trump . . . Melania Knauss
---------------
25 Years

Humphrey Bogart . . . Lauren Bacall
Robert Conrad . . . LaVelda Fann
Michael Douglas . . . Catherine Zeta-Jones (same birthday: September 25)
Richard Harris . . . Ann Turkel
Benjamin Harrison . . . Mary Dimmick (He: 62, 23nd U.S. President [married after leaving office]. She: 37. Year: 1896.)
Christopher Knight . . . Adrianne Curry
Norman Lear . . . Lyn Davis
George Lucas . . . Mellody Hobson
Paul McCartney . . . Heather Mills
Rod Stewart . . . Rachel Hunter
Mike Todd . . . Elizabeth Taylor
Bruce WIllis . . . Nadia Bjorlin
---------------
26 Years

Alec Baldwin . . . Hilaria Baldwin (Hilaria Thomas)
René Angélil . . . Celine Dion
Charles Dance . . . Shambhala Marthe
Kelsey Grammer . . . Kayte Walsh
Mick Jagger . . . Luciana Morad
Larry King . . . Shawn Southwick
Steve Martin . . . Anne Stringfield
Barry Newman . . . Angela Spilker
---------------
27 Years

Jeff Goldblum . . . Catherine Wreford
David Hasselhoff . . . Hayley Roberts
Jerry Lee Lewis . . . Kerrie McCarver
Rich Little . . . Jeannette Markey
Rod Stewart . . . Penny Lancaster
---------------
28 Years

Grover Cleveland . . . Frances Folsom (He: 49, 22nd U.S. President. She: 21, youngest First Lady. Year: 1886.)
David Copperfield . . . Chloe Gosselin
Harrison Ford . . . Minnie Driver
Nelson Mandela . . . Graca Machel
Jack Nicholson . . . Sandra Knight
Kenny Rogers . . . Wanda Miller
William Shatner . . . Nerine Kidd
William Shatner . . . Elizabeth Martin
Alan Thicke . . . Tany Callau
Pete Townshend . . . Rachel Fuller
Bao Xishum . . . Xia Shusian (He: former world's tallest man 7'9")

---------------
29 Years

Neil Diamond . . . Katie McNeil
George Hamilton . . . Kimberly Blackford
Yaphet Kotto . . . Tessie Sinahon
---------------
30 Years

Buzz Aldrin . . . Michelle Sucillon
Paul Anka . . . Anna Yeager
Jim Carrey . . . Anastasia Vitkina
Bing Crosby . . . Kathryn Grant
John Derek . . . Bo Derek (Mary Collins)
Jeff Goldbloom . . . Emilie Livingston
Andy Griffith . . . Cindi Knight
Frank Sinatra . . . Mia Farrow
John Tyler . . . Julia Gardiner (He: 54, 10th U.S. President. She: 24. Year: 1844.)
George Frederic Watts . . . Ellen Terry (He: 46, British artist. She: 16, actress. Year: 1864.)
---------------
31 Years

Eric Clapton . . . Melia McEnery
John Cleese . . . Jennifer Wade
Rodney Dangerfield . . . Joan Child
Robert Evans . . . Catherine Oxenberg
Dennis Hopper . . . Katherine LaNasa
Davy Jones . . . Jessica Pacheco
Martin Landau . . . Gretchen Becker
Ronnie Wood . . . Sally Humphreys
---------------
32 Years

Billy Joel . . . Katie Lee
David Lynch . . . Emily Stofle
Ed McMahon . . . Pam Hurn
Geraldo Rivera . . . Erica Levy
---------------
33 Years

Tony Bennett . . . Susan Crow
Cary Grant . . . Dyan Cannon (He: 57. She: 24 when first met. He: 61. She: 28 when married.)
George Hamilton . . . Barbara Sturm
Jack Nicholson . . . Lara Flynn Boyle
George Frederic Watts . . . Mary Seton Fraser Tytler
---------------
34 Years

Charles Dance . . . Sophia Myles
John McLaughlin . . . Cristine Vidal
Andre Previn . . . Anne-Sophie Mutter
Rod Steiger . . . Paula Ellis
---------------
35 Years

Woody Allen . . . Soon-Yi Previn
Dennis Hopper . . . Victoria Duffy
Doug Hutchison . . . Courtney Alexis Stodden (He: 51, American actor. She: 16, singer. Year: 2011, Las Vegas chapel.)
Lee Majors . . . Faith Noelle Cross
Tony Robinson . . . Louise Hobbs
J.D. Salinger . . . Joyce Maynard (He: 53. She: 18. Year: 1972.)
---------------
36 Years

James Doohan . . . Wende Braunberger (He: 54, Star Trek's "Scotty. She: 18. Year: 1974.)
Clint Eastwood . . . Dina Ruiz
Sir Clive Sinclair . . . Angie Bowness
---------------
37 Years

Jim Clark . . . Kristy Hinze (He: 65, billionaire. She: 28, Australian supermodel. Married: 2009.)
Hugh Hefner . . . Kimberley Conrad
Rupert Murdoch . . . Wendi Deng
Des O'Connor . . . Jodie Brooke Wilson
---------------
38 Years

Rupert Murdoch . . . Wendi Deng
Patrick Stewart . . . Sunny Ozell
---------------
39 Years

Robert Evans . . . Leslie Ann Woodward
Al Pacino . . . Lucila Sola
Patrick Stewart . . . Lisa Dillon
Stevie Wonder . . . Tomeekah Robyn Bracy
James Woods . . . Ashley Madison (He: 57, actor. She: 18 when first met.)
---------------
40 Years

Charles Bronson . . . Kim Weeks
Pablo Picasso . . . Françoise Gilot
J.D. Salinger . . . Colleen O'Neill
---------------
41 Years

Robert Duvall . . . Luciana Pedraza (He: actor. Both have same birthday: January 5)
Clint Eastwood . . . Erica Tomlinson-Fisher
Terry Jones . . . Anna Soderstrom (He: 62, "Monty Python" co-founder. She: 21 when first met.)
Ronnie Wood . . . Ekaterina Ivanova (He 61, "Rolling Stones" rock star. She 20, when first met.)
---------------
42 Years

Ginger Baker . . . Kudzai Machokoto (He: 70, former rock star. She: 28. Year engaged/married: 2010.)
George Soros . . . Tamiko Bolton
Leopold Stokowski . . . Gloria Vanderbilt
---------------
43 Years

Mick Jagger first . . . Melanie Hamrick
---------------
44 Years

Fred Astaire . . . Robyn Smith
Ramjeet Raghav . . . Shakuntala Devi (wife) (He: 96, world's oldest father as of 2012. She: 52.)
---------------
45 Years

Tony Curtis . . . Jill Vanden Berg
---------------
46 Years

Richard Roden . . . Lisa (wife) (He, Britain's oldest father of twins.)
Dick Van Dyke . . . Arlene Silver
James Woods . . . Kristen Bauguess
---------------
47 Years

Roberto Cavalli . . . Lina Nilson
Cary Grant . . . Barbara Harris
Richard Lugner . . . Cathy Schmitz He: 81, billionaire. She: 24, model, when married in 2014.)
Anthony Quinn . . . Kathy Benvin
---------------
48 Years

Kirk Kerkorian . . . Lisa Bonder
---------------
51 Years

Edwin Edwards . . . Trina Scott
Tony Randall . . . Heather Harlan
---------------
54 Years

Raymond Calvert . . . Charlotte (partner) (He, Britain's oldest father.)
Hugh Hefner . . . Holly Madison
---------------
60 Years

Hugh Hefner . . . Crystal Harris
---------------
63 Years

J. Howard Marshall II . . . Anna Nicole Smith (He: 89. She: 26 when first met.)
Glynn Wolfe . . . Daisy (wife) (He: Guiness world record holder, world's most married man. She: young Asian bride.)



Sooo.....In that list alone I didnt find any Muslim



Try this:
You are the one crying about it! Not me...
 
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Islam certainly needs "reform", but even more so do Christianity and Judaism. Moreover, capitalism and "western values" also need reform. Basically, we all need reform. Those who prefer to demonize one group over all others are not to be taken seriously, however. This includes the "Judeo-Christian West is good, Islam is bad" crowd. I don't take anything they say serously and never will, nor will I take seriously our own fundamentalist idiots.
Something needs to be reformed after it is tried and has failed...When Islam has never been given a chance over the preferences of culture and tradition how can we say it has failed and needs reform?

Just a genuine question!
 
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Islam certainly needs "reform", but even more so do Christianity and Judaism. Moreover, capitalism and "western values" also need reform. Basically, we all need reform. Those who prefer to demonize one group over all others are not to be taken seriously, however. This includes the "Judeo-Christian West is good, Islam is bad" crowd. I don't take anything they say serously and never will, nor will I take seriously our own fundamentalist idiots.

We cannot say, Muslims will not fix their houses, not get rid of their Mullahs and Ayatullah kings, because
Jews need to do it first
or
Christians need to do it first
or
capitalists need to do it first.



That's like a girl on wedding night, refusing to go to bed until all the wives in the neighborhood do it first.
 
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- Cultural



Bilal Philips is not this white man...Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips is a black man!

philips_big[1].jpg

If he was misquoted or taken out of context than that is not Islam's problem...MARRIAGE in Islam includes the 3: sanity, puberty and consent....

I typed this: "the prophet muhammad practiced it (prepubescent)" in google and no where did I find any of Abu Ameenah's speech coming up I did find OBAMACARTOON quoting it but not the scholar Dr. Philips himself!
 
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Forced marriages is not part of Islam....Forced marriages is not only discouraged it isnt allowed coz like I said no more than twice on this thread alone:
Forced marriage is discouraged in Islam, yet forced or arranged marriages are common place in Muslim societies. Don't bring in the dominant culture strawman argument here as even those Muslims who migrated in the West widely practice these forced / arranged marriages when broader Western culture don't! So problem is again Muslim Islamic culture.

But I still stand by this: CONSENT is necessary so a forced marriage as par Shariah is not legal!
Really? How come so many young muslim girls are married off to older men in Islamic way?

If that were the case then young queens, conquers and general should also come forward as that too was the case back then!
Back then? I am talking about now, not past.

I am sorry I am not a Shia nor is he my Imam...and no where does it say Imam are above the law...No one is...If he did rape all the girl has to do is say so!
You don't have to be a Shiite to believe him. His source was same old Islamic teaching as Sunnis.

Now if "MAJORITY" as you like to put it...are I dont know wearing hijab, praying in their office, asking for Eid holidays and stuff like that is wrong then religious freedom is a fake
???

IF MAJORITY are walking down being shariah police and being on video camera and not getting caught then the MAN MADE LAW is also a sham as it did nothing to stop them
What the heck does this even mean? Man made laws? Isn't Shariah man made law as its interpreted by men alone and not women? :D

As for leaving Islam in the mosque, if you have successfully done it, I congratulate you! But stop being the other side of the Mullah coin where when they force their version down your throat you try to ask them to leave their version in the Mosque....Please stop coz you show no difference between you and them!
Religious practice should not come out of mosques, churches, temples four corners. But you can take with your good religious values out anytime.
 
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Forced marriage is discouraged in Islam, yet forced or arranged marriages are common place in Muslim societies. Don't bring in the dominant culture strawman argument here as even those Muslims who migrated in the West widely practice these forced / arranged marriages when broader Western culture don't! So problem is again Muslim Islamic culture.
Problem actually is culture...And any truth seems like a strawman to you then it is your sheer ignorance!

Those Muslims who migrated to the West and practice it...Please do tell me if they have managed to get over their phobia and assimilated with the West? or bothered to educate their women or are thy still following their culture where women are not to be educated despite Iqra being the 1st word of revealed? Iqra without stating man or woman!


Really? How come so many young muslim girls are married off to older men in Islamic way?
That you should ask their parents and the many...I already answered it if you read post: Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform | Page 24

Countries:

Rank Country Name % girls married before 18
1 Niger 75 (Niger is a secular country and separation of state and religion is guaranteed by Article 3 of the 2010 Constitution as well as Article 175 which dictate that future amendments or revisions might not modify the secular nature of the republic of Niger. In addition, religious freedom is protected by Article 30 of the same constitution. )
2 Chad 68 (Chad is a religiously diverse country. The 1993 census found that 54% of Chadians were Muslim (48% Sunni, 21% Shia and 4% Ahmadi), 20% Roman Catholic, 14% Protestant, 10% animist and 3% atheist. None of these religious traditions are monolithic. Animism includes a variety of ancestor and place-oriented religions whose expression is highly specific. Islam is expressed in diverse ways. Christianity arrived in Chad with the French and American missionaries; as with Chadian Islam, it syncretises aspects of pre-Christian religious beliefs.)
3 Central African Republic 68 (According to the 2003 national census, 80.3% of the population is Christian—51.4% Protestant and 28.9% Roman Catholic—and 15% is Muslim. Indigenous belief (animism) is also practiced, and many indigenous beliefs are incorporated into Christian and Islamic practice)
4 Bangladesh 66
5 Guinea 63 (Guinea is approximately 85 percent Muslim, 8 percent Christian, with 7 percent adhering to indigenous religious beliefs. Much of the population, both Muslim and Christian, also incorporate indigenous African beliefs into their outlook.)


Back then? I am talking about now, not past.
You brought up prophet so yes you were jumping around in the past and I answered in context....WHY prophet did that and it was not wrong BACK then...I also said

Maybe not 16 yr olds of the TECHNICALLY ADVANCED 21st century but there were many Queens, warriors, generals who were 15-16 to prove they are mentally ready to know what something as responsibility means if they are not busy being bubbled wrapped by protection! And hence 16 yr old BACK THEN was acceptable age and even Science proves it!


You don't have to be a Shiite to believe him. His source was same old Islamic teaching as Sunnis.
A self proclaiming book is not SAME OLD ISLAMIC TEACHINGS


Tahrir al-Vasyleh,
Tahrir al-Wasilah (Arabic تحريرالوسيلة; Exegesis of the Means of Salvation or Commentaries on the Liberation of the Intercession) is a book that was written by Ayatollah Khomeini as a commentary on a traditional theological text, and as a guide for Shia Muslims.
 
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