Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform

[WaLeEdK2]

Problem with Islam is that not even its followers know what is right and wrong. This dilemma occurs when a civilization has lost all its substance, its leadership that is responsible for establishing what is right and what is right in its society. For ISIS terrorists, their version of Caliphate is perfect. For Iranian Shiites, their understanding of Islamic governance is perfect. For Pakistanis, their brand of Sunnism is the greatest. With such absurdity and no real agreement on what is right and wrong kind of Islam, how would a normal Muslim like me know what is 'true' Islam, yet alone an outsider like you?

That's the problem. We have no leadership. Sadly many people in the past sold Islam for money and worldly gains.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I do not care. And neither do the rest of the non-Muslims.

You believe that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are US creations. But do you care about the details of how they came to be and why they are NOT what you believe them to be ? Of course you do not care.

I do care what Non Muslims think about Islam. Because according to some of them me being a Muslim is a crime. I will challenge wrong perceptions held by all sides.

 

[gambit]

Problem with Islam is that not even its followers know what is right and wrong. This dilemma occurs when a civilization has lost all its substance, its leadership that is responsible for establishing what is right and what is wrong in its society. For ISIS terrorists, their version of Caliphate is perfect. For Iranian Shiites, their understanding of Islamic governance is perfect. For Pakistanis, their brand of Sunnism is the greatest. With such absurdity and no real agreement on what is right and wrong kind of Islam, how would a normal Muslim like me know what is 'true' Islam, yet alone an outsider like you?

Outside of academia...We non-Muslims do not claim to have any level of authority about the theology and philosophy of Islam. We only respond to physical manifestations of Islam as understood -- rightly or falsely -- by its believers. And if there are confusion within the House of Islam, why is it our burden to even help the Muslims ?

 

[Jaanbaz]

Problem with Islam is that not even its followers know what is right and wrong. This dilemma occurs when a civilization has lost all its substance, its leadership that is responsible for establishing what is right and what is wrong in its society. For ISIS terrorists, their version of Caliphate is perfect. For Iranian Shiites, their understanding of Islamic governance is perfect. For Pakistanis, their brand of Sunnism is the greatest. With such absurdity and no real agreement on what is right and wrong kind of Islam, how would a normal Muslim like me know what is 'true' Islam, yet alone an outsider like you?

I know what is Islam for me. Where I find peace. I have a leader who tells me to love and respect our neighbours no matter what his religion is. Its my duty to be a peaceful citizen of the current country that I'm residing. For me there are teachings of Islam. I can prove it too.

 

[gambit]

I do care what Non Muslims think about Islam. Because according to some of them me being a Muslim is a crime. I will challenge wrong perceptions held by all sides.

Show me one non-Muslim country where being a Muslim is a crime.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Show me one non-Muslim country where being a Muslim is a crime.

According to many right wing fascists and Christian conservatives all Muslims are terrorists. That's the current propaganda on media.

 

[Jaanbaz]

The Islam haters are not going to behead you. The wrath from them is imaginary and a convenient excuse for you not to act.

I'm acting according to the best of my abilities.

 

[gambit]

I know what is Islam for me. Where I find peace. I have a leader who tells me to love and respect our neighbours no matter what his religion is. Its my duty to be a peaceful citizen of the current country that I'm residing. For me there are teachings of Islam. I can prove it too.

We do not care if you can prove it or not. Get your own religious house in order. The Christians, despite their bloody history, have done it. The world do not see Amish being beheaded by the Episcopalians, or the Catholics and the Mormons shooting it out in the streets of Salt Lake City, the capital city of the LDS sect.

 

[gambit]

According to many right wing fascists and Christian conservatives all Muslims are terrorists. That's the current propaganda on media.

Is there a law here ?

 

[Jaanbaz]

Is there a law here ?

No. It only takes few minutes to walk on streets to sense hostility though. Switching on the news channels also doesn't help.

 

[gambit]

I'm acting according to the best of my abilities.

Then I applaud you. Too bad you are a minority in the House of Islam. But the difference between the minority of your kind versus the minority that are willing act -- with atrocious deeds -- is that the other minority are willing to act collectively. Their effects are world famous and have far reaching consequences.

 

[Jaanbaz]

We do not care if you can prove it or not. Get your own religious house in order. The Christians, despite their bloody history, have done it. The world do not see Amish being beheaded by the Episcopalians, or the Catholics and the Mormons shooting it out in the streets of Salt Lake City, the capital city of the LDS sect.

Islamic reform is all ready under way. Currently Christians in USA join Army to kill heathens in far away lands. Why behead an Amish when you can slaughter some rag heads right?

 

[Jaanbaz]

Then I applaud you. Too bad you are a minority in the House of Islam. But the difference between the minority of your kind versus the minority that are willing act -- with atrocious deeds -- is that the other minority are willing to act collectively. Their effects are world famous and have far reaching consequences.

You are safe and sound thousands of miles away and have never even seen real terrorism mate.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Then I applaud you. Too bad you are a minority in the House of Islam. But the difference between the minority of your kind versus the minority that are willing act -- with atrocious deeds -- is that the other minority are willing to act collectively. Their effects are world famous and have far reaching consequences.

I belong to Sect with tens of millions of people. Not a single person from my Sect has ever committed any suicide blast or carried out any beheading. As I said over billions Muslims in the world, not all the same. I have relatives from the Sunni sect, they have never committed any terrorist acts but because of extremists they too suffer the consequences.

Give Islam time, reform will happen and is all ready happening.

 

[Norwegian]

That's the problem. We have no leadership. Sadly many people in the past sold Islam for money and worldly gains.

Not only that our Ummah has no united leadership, we also do not have any intellectuals intelligent enough to reach a consensus among so many bad things haunting Islam for the past 1400 years.

Outside of academia...We non-Muslims do not claim to have any level of authority about the theology and philosophy of Islam. We only respond to physical manifestations of Islam as understood -- rightly or falsely -- by its believers. And if there are confusion within the House of Islam, why is it our burden to even help the Muslims ?

Exactly! Why are non-Muslims blamed for the mess that's been created by Islamic leaders themselves. Are non-Muslims also responsible for the never ending 1400 years old sectarian Sunni-Shia strife?

I know what is Islam for me. Where I find peace. I have a leader who tells me to love and respect our neighbours no matter what his religion is. Its my duty to be a peaceful citizen of the current country that I'm residing. For me there are teachings of Islam. I can prove it too.

Teachings of Islam are just like other Abrahamic religions such as Judaism and Christianity. Yet extremist terror groups are only coming out of Islam and no other faiths. You think you can fool non-Muslims with such rubbish?

Show me one non-Muslim country where being a Muslim is a crime.

Angola?
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/...-bans-islam-and-will-destroy-all-the-mosques/

According to many right wing fascists and Christian conservatives all Muslims are terrorists. That's the current propaganda on media.

No, they say all terrorists are Muslim retrospectively.

If the laws cannot act against the corrupt clergy, then what is preventing the ordinary Muslims from acting ? Why do so many of these ordinary Muslims continues to follow these corrupt clergy ? Ideas cannot exists unless there are people willing to propagate them, and obviously there are plenty of ordinary Muslims who believes in forced conversions. Enough that the idea of a forced conversion is no longer an evil but a good in the name of Islam.

That's the core of the problem both here in the West and our home country Pakistan. Muslims generally blindly follow their stupid and illiterate clergy. In Muslim lands, everyone can be declared corrupt except the clergy. Muslim clergy is equivalent of Catholic church during era of Witch trials in Europe.

We do not care if you can prove it or not. Get your own religious house in order. The Christians, despite their bloody history, have done it. The world do not see Amish being beheaded by the Episcopalians, or the Catholics and the Mormons shooting it out in the streets of Salt Lake City.

Great post. Even after 1400 years of Islam, Sunnis and Shiites cannot get along. Each year there is sporadic sectarian violence in all Muslim countries with a significant Shiite minority.

No. It only takes few minutes to walk on streets to sense hostility though. Switching on the news channels also doesn't help.

Where do you live exactly? In No Go areas of England where the White people cannot enter?

I belong to Sect with tens of millions of people.

Qadiani?