Mushrraf: Fundamentalists in the Army

[TalibanSwatter]

Musharraf said that he and General Kayani, who had been his nominee for chief of army staff, were still in telephonic contact. He said he didn’t think the Army was capable of mutiny — not the Army he knew. “There are people with fundamentalist ideas in the Army, but I don’t think there is any possibility of these people getting organised and doing an uprising. These ‘fundos’ were disliked and not popular.”

He added: “The Muslims think highly of Obama, and he should use his acceptability — even with the Taliban — and try to deal with them politically.”

Musharraf spoke of two prior attempts to create a fundamentalist uprising in the Army. In both the cases, he said, the officers involved were arrested and prosecuted. “I created the strategic force that controls all the strategic assets — eighteen to twenty thousand strong. They are monitored for character and for potential fundamentalism,” he said. He acknowledged, however, that things had changed since he’d left office. “People have become alarmed because of the Taliban and what they have done,” he said. “Everyone is now alarmed.”

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And this is probably why TTP/Jihadi thugs are able to get insider information for attacks on army officers and military complexes.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Clearly, the fundos in the military are well known and 'disliked' as indicated.Why are they not simply weeded out???

I wonder if some of these fundos include serving generals. Does anyone know?

 

[Khajur]

Musharraf said that he and General Kayani, who had been his nominee for chief of army staff, were still in telephonic contact. He said he didn’t think the Army was capable of mutiny — not the Army he knew. “There are people with fundamentalist ideas in the Army, but I don’t think there is any possibility of these people getting organised and doing an uprising. These ‘fundos’ were disliked and not popular.”

He added: “The Muslims think highly of Obama, and he should use his acceptability — even with the Taliban — and try to deal with them politically.”

Musharraf spoke of two prior attempts to create a fundamentalist uprising in the Army. In both the cases, he said, the officers involved were arrested and prosecuted. “I created the strategic force that controls all the strategic assets — eighteen to twenty thousand strong. They are monitored for character and for potential fundamentalism,” he said. He acknowledged, however, that things had changed since he’d left office. “People have become alarmed because of the Taliban and what they have done,” he said. “Everyone is now alarmed.”

I appreciated the fact that Musharraf showed the courage to speak out about the presense of these ‘fundos’ in in the rank & file of PA , instead of going in for the usual denial mode .

Here is an article the exact kind ‘fundos’ that Musharraf refered to and the threat to pose to billons ppl living in the subcontinent.

What one prominent Pakistani thinks his country should do with its atomic weaponsby Peter Landesman

A Modest Proposal From the BrigadierArticle Tools
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In the center of the biggest traffic circle of every major city in Pakistan sits a craggy, Gibraltarish replica of a nameless peak in the Chagai range. This mountain is the home of Pakistan's nuclear test site. The development, in 1998, of the "Islamic Bomb," intended as a counter to India's nuclear capability, is Pakistan's only celebrated achievement since its formation, in 1947. The mountain replicas, about three stories tall, are surrounded by flower beds that are lovingly weeded, watered, and manicured. At dusk, when the streetlights come on, so do the mountains, glowing a weird molten yellow.

Islamabad's monument to the atomic bomb occupies a rotary between the airport and the city center. Nearby stand models of Pakistan's two classes of missile: Shaheen and Ghauri. The Islamabad nuclear shrine stands at a place where the city is dissolving into an incoherent edge town of shabby strip malls and empty boulevards and rows of desolate government buildings. A little farther in one comes to the gridded blocks of gated homes. The neighborhoods are called sectors. The streets are numbered, not named.

Late last year, after nearly two months in Pakistan, I paid the last of many visits to house No. 8 on street 19, sector F-8/2, a modern white mansion known as Zardari House. The house has been used by Asif Ali Zardari, the imprisoned husband of Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan's exiled former Prime Minister. Neither Zardari nor Bhutto has been there for a long time. Zardari has been confined for five years, most recently in Attock Fort, a medieval fortress perched over the Indus River between Islamabad and Peshawar. He is charged with a slew of crimes: large-scale corruption; conspiracy in the murder of Bhutto's brother Mir Murtaza; conspiracy to smuggle narcotics. Bhutto, who also faces corruption charges in Pakistan, lives in Dubai with their three children. Pakistan's leader, General Pervez Musharraf, has promised to have her arrested and tried if she ever returns to Pakistan. Outside the gate to the empty Zardari House sits a man with his back to the wall, a sawed-off shotgun across his knees.

I had been going there to consult with Brigadier Amanullah, known to his friends as Aman. Aman, in his early fifties and now retired, is lithe and gentle-natured and seemed to me slightly depressed. He works in a small office behind Zardari House, where, as the secretary to Benazir Bhutto in Islamabad, he coordinates Bhutto's efforts to return to Pakistan and regain its prime ministership. He also keeps in close touch with old colleagues, who include many powerful people in Pakistan. Aman was once the chief of Pakistan's military intelligence in Sind Province, which borders India. Pakistan's biggest city and a cultural center, Karachi, is in Sind. That put Aman squarely in the middle of things, his finger near many sorts of buttons. Today Aman is believed to act as Bhutto's liaison with the armed forces, and he maintains contacts with serving army officers, including senior generals. When I wanted to speak to someone in the Pakistani government, I asked Aman. When I wanted to speak to someone in the Taliban, or in military intelligence, or in the political opposition, I asked Aman. His replies were mumbled and monosyllabic. He never offered opinions. He would simply hear me out and, most times, tip his head and say, "Why not?" Within an hour after Aman and I parted, I would receive a phone call from his secretary. References would be made to "that man" or "that matter," and I would be given a phone number and a time to call. Having spoken with Aman, I was always expected.

On the day of my final visit Aman seemed more sullen than usual. He ushered me into a room adjoining the office. The room was long and spare. There was an oil painting on the far wall. The other walls were empty and lined with cushioned chairs. Aman sat across from me. We had tea and spoke about the latest events.

As we were wrapping up our conversation, I looked at the oil painting. It was a strange picture, a horizontal landscape about four feet across, with overtones of socialist realism. In the foreground a youthful Benazir Bhutto stood in heroic pose on an escarpment overlooking the featureless grid of Islamabad. Beside her stood her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, a Prime Minister who in 1977 was ousted in a coup and two years later hanged. On the other side of Bhutto was Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the long-dead founding father of Pakistan. Their postures were exalted, their expressions a combination of pride and awe. Jinnah's arm pointed to the vast plain beyond the city, where a rocket was lifting out of billowing clouds of vapor and fire into the sky.

Aman noticed me looking at the painting and followed my gaze. I asked him if Benazir Bhutto had commissioned it, and Aman said no. He told me that one day when she was still Prime Minister, an unknown man, an ordinary Pakistani citizen, had come to the gate of Zardari House with the picture and told Aman that he'd painted it for the Prime Minister and wanted to present it to her as a gift. Aman said that he was immediately transfixed by the painting. He called to Bhutto inside the house, but she refused to come down to see the man. Aman was persistent, and eventually she came down.

"I insisted Benazir accept it as a gift," Aman told me.

We both looked up at the painting in silence. "A rocket ship heading to the moon?" I asked.

Aman tipped his head to the side. A smirk tugged at the corners of his mouth. "No," he said. "A nuclear warhead heading to India."

I thought he was making a joke. Then I saw he wasn't. I thought of the shrines to Pakistan's nuclear-weapons site, prominently displayed in every city. I told Aman that I was disturbed by the ease with which Pakistanis talk of nuclear war with India.

Aman shook his head. "No," he said matter-of-factly. "This should happen. We should use the bomb."

"For what purpose?" He didn't seem to understand my question. "In retaliation?" I asked.

"Why not?"

"Or first strike?"

"Why not?"

I looked for a sign of irony. None was visible. Rocking his head side to side, his expression becoming more and more withdrawn, Aman launched into a monologue that neither of us, I am sure, knew was coming:

"We should fire at them and take out a few of their cities—Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta," he said. "They should fire back and take Karachi and Lahore. Kill off a hundred or two hundred million people. They should fire at us and it would all be over. They have acted so badly toward us; they have been so mean. We should teach them a lesson. It would teach all of us a lesson. There is no future here, and we need to start over. So many people think this. Have you been to the villages of Pakistan, the interior? There is nothing but dire poverty and pain. The children have no education; there is nothing to look forward to. Go into the villages, see the poverty. There is no drinking water. Small children without shoes walk miles for a drink of water. I go to the villages and I want to cry. My children have no future. None of the children of Pakistan have a future. We are surrounded by nothing but war and suffering. Millions should die away."

"Pakistan should fire pre-emptively?" I asked.

Aman nodded.

"And you are willing to see your children die?"

"Tens of thousands of people are dying in Kashmir, and the only superpower says nothing," Aman said. "America has sided with India because it has interests there." He told me he was willing to see his children be killed. He repeated that they didn't have any future—his children or any other children.

I asked him if he thought he was alone in his thoughts, and Aman made it clear to me that he was not.

"Believe me," he went on, "If I were in charge, I would have already done it."

Aman stopped, as though he'd stunned even himself. Then he added, with quiet forcefulness, "Before I die, I hope I should see it

A Modest Proposal From the Brigadier - The Atlantic (March 2002)

 

[waraich66]

I dont know what Musharaf's Fundamental defination is , but universal defination of funadmentalist is person who try to follow fundamental of his religion ,which is healthy and positive sign , may be he is refereing to enlighten islam which he try to implement during his era .

 

[TalibanSwatter]

New Yorker Article - Seymour Hersh Excerpts

During my stay in Pakistan—my first in five years—there were undeniable signs that militancy and the influence of fundamentalist Islam had grown. In the past, military officers, politicians, and journalists routinely served Johnnie Walker Black during our talks, and drank it themselves. This time, even the most senior retired Army generals offered only juice or tea, even in their own homes. Officials and journalists said that soldiers and middle-level officers were increasingly attracted to the preaching of Zaid Hamid, who joined the mujahideen and fought for nine years in Afghanistan. On CDs and on television, Hamid exhorts soldiers to think of themselves as Muslims first and Pakistanis second. He claims that terrorist attacks in Mumbai last year were staged by India and Western Zionists, aided by the Mossad. Another proselytizer, Dr. Israr Ahmed, writes a column in the Urdu press in which he depicts the Holocaust as “divine punishment,” and advocates the extermination of the Jews. He, too, is said to be popular with the officer corps.

A senior Obama Administration official brought up Hizb ut-Tahrir, a Sunni organization whose goal is to establish the Caliphate. “They’ve penetrated the Pakistani military and now have cells in the Army,” he said. (The Pakistan Army denies this.) In one case, according to the official, Hizb ut-Tahrir had recruited members of a junior officer group, from the most élite Pakistani military academy, who had been sent to England for additional training.

Where do these guys get socialized and exposed to Islamic evangelism and the fundamentalism narrative?” the Obama Administration official asked. “In services every Friday for Army officers, and at corps and unit meetings where they are addressed by senior commanders and clerics.”


I flew to New Delhi after my stay in Pakistan and met with two senior officials from the Research and Analysis Wing, India’s national intelligence agency. (Of course, as in Pakistan, no allegation about the other side should be taken at face value.) “Our worries are about the nuclear weapons in Pakistan,” one of the officials said. “Not because we are worried about the mullahs taking over the country; we’re worried about those senior officers in the Pakistan Army who are Caliphates”—believers in a fundamentalist pan-Islamic state. “We know some of them and we have names,” he said. “We’ve been watching colonels who are now brigadiers. These are the guys who could blackmail the whole world”—that is, by seizing a nuclear weapon.

 

[A.Rahman]

may be he is refereing to enlighten islam which he try to implement during his era .

Iqbal summed up "Elite & Moderate" pretty nicely

You are Nisars by your looks, but Hindus by conduct,
Your culture puts to shame even the Jewish sects.
-Iqbal

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Clearly, the fundos in the military are well known and 'disliked' as indicated.Why are they not simply weeded out???

Because possessing 'fundamentalist ideas' (extremely religious, proselytizing etc.) should not be a barrier to continued service - the ideas themselves may not be supportive of illegal activity in that they do not seek to promote violence nor the overthrow of the State, Musharraf did not elaborate on that count.

What military authorities would be looking for is professionalism in the military sense when it comes to promotions and continued service, though such views could play a part in promotions at the higher level.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

New Yorker Article - Seymour Hersh Excerpts

During my stay in Pakistan—my first in five years—there were undeniable signs that militancy and the influence of fundamentalist Islam had grown. In the past, military officers, politicians, and journalists routinely served Johnnie Walker Black during our talks, and drank it themselves. This time, even the most senior retired Army generals offered only juice or tea, even in their own homes. Officials and journalists said that soldiers and middle-level officers were increasingly attracted to the preaching of Zaid Hamid, who joined the mujahideen and fought for nine years in Afghanistan. On CDs and on television, Hamid exhorts soldiers to think of themselves as Muslims first and Pakistanis second. He claims that terrorist attacks in Mumbai last year were staged by India and Western Zionists, aided by the Mossad. Another proselytizer, Dr. Israr Ahmed, writes a column in the Urdu press in which he depicts the Holocaust as “divine punishment,” and advocates the extermination of the Jews. He, too, is said to be popular with the officer corps.

What BS - since when is ' not offering whiskey or other alcoholic products' a sign of fundamentalism? Are my parents fundamentalists then?

And does Hersch have any statistics on how many serving officers, especially in high level leadership positions, subscribe to Zaid Hamid's views?

Utter baloney.

A senior Obama Administration official brought up Hizb ut-Tahrir, a Sunni organization whose goal is to establish the Caliphate. “They’ve penetrated the Pakistani military and now have cells in the Army,” he said. (The Pakistan Army denies this.) In one case, according to the official, Hizb ut-Tahrir had recruited members of a junior officer group, from the most élite Pakistani military academy, who had been sent to England for additional training.

Again, HuT members proselytizing to officers, and perhaps officers even becoming a part of HuT, should not be automatically mixed with fundamentalism of the sort that AQ/Taliban promote.

The organization itself is not banned in many Western nations, including the US and UK, with the US issuing a clear statement indicating they had not found any links between HuT and terrorism. It may be an ultra-conservative Muslim organization perhaps, but being ultra-conservative does not mean 'terrorist', so why should Pakistani officers joining HuT be an issue?

Where do these guys get socialized and exposed to Islamic evangelism and the fundamentalism narrative?” the Obama Administration official asked. “In services every Friday for Army officers, and at corps and unit meetings where they are addressed by senior commanders and clerics.”

What is this supposed to mean? What is wrong with being addressed by Army commanders and clerics during Friday prayers? Every time I have gone to Friday prayers I have been addressed by clerics issuing the Juma sermons - are Friday prayers supposed to be addressed by renowned atheists?

I flew to New Delhi after my stay in Pakistan and met with two senior officials from the Research and Analysis Wing, India’s national intelligence agency. (Of course, as in Pakistan, no allegation about the other side should be taken at face value.) “Our worries are about the nuclear weapons in Pakistan,” one of the officials said. “Not because we are worried about the mullahs taking over the country; we’re worried about those senior officers in the Pakistan Army who are Caliphates”—believers in a fundamentalist pan-Islamic state. “We know some of them and we have names,” he said. “We’ve been watching colonels who are now brigadiers. These are the guys who could blackmail the whole world”—that is, by seizing a nuclear weapon.

The Indians have a decided interest in portraying the Pakistani military as increasingly extremist to cut off Western ties with it and to malign it - everything from that end should be taken with a huge truck of salt (or sugar - if you can find it in Lahore).

 

[waraich66]

SELF DELETED

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Because possessing 'fundamentalist ideas' (extremely religious, proselytizing etc.) should not be a barrier to continued service - the ideas themselves may not be supportive of illegal activity in that they do not seek to promote violence nor the overthrow of the State, Musharraf did not elaborate on that count.

What military authorities would be looking for is professionalism in the military sense when it comes to promotions and continued service, though such views could play a part in promotions at the higher level.

I don't think Musharraf is referring to such officers as 'fundos' in the academic sense. He goes on to elaborate that there is 'little possibility of these people getting organized and staging an uprising'. I believe he is speaking to their lack of capacity as opposed to a lack of intent.

I would'nt be surprised if some of these 'fundo'' officers are providing insider information to the TTP/jihadi terrorists - a possibility that should be carefully investigated in light of the recent attacks on the military complex and serving officers.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Again, HuT members proselytizing to officers, and perhaps officers even becoming a part of HuT, should not be automatically mixed with fundamentalism of the sort that AQ/Taliban promote.

The organization itself is not banned in many Western nations, including the US and UK, with the US issuing a clear statement indicating they had not found any links between HuT and terrorism. It may be an ultra-conservative Muslim organization perhaps, but being ultra-conservative does not mean 'terrorist', so why should Pakistani officers joining HuT be an issue?


The Indians have a decided interest in portraying the Pakistani military as increasingly extremist to cut off Western ties with it and to malign it - everything from that end should be taken with a huge truck of salt (or sugar - if you can find it in Lahore).

HuT has a geopolitical agenda, rejects the democratic system and nationalist allegiances, and seeks the establishment of a pan-global Caliphate in its place. Read Ed Hussain's book 'The Islamist' and you'll get a first hand account from a former leading UK member of the organization.

From 1986 to 1996, under the leadership of Syrian born Omar Bakri Muhammad Hizb ut-Tahrir grew from a very small organization in Britain to a one of the most active Islamic organizations in the country.

There is clearly a very fine line between the AQ type radicalism and the HuT radicalism considering the track record of HuT's original founding leader of the UK chapter.

For several years Bakri was one of the best-known, high-profile Islamic radicals based in London, and was frequently quoted and interviewed in the UK media. He vowed in December 2004 for example that Muslims would give the West "a 9/11, day after day after day," if Western governments did not change their policies.[1] He has been described both as "closely linked to al-Qaeda"[2] In 1996 Bakri split with Hizb ut-Tahrir over disagreements on policy, style and methods, and focused on another organization Al-Muhajiroun.

In 2005, following the 7 July 2005 London bombings the Times reported that "a dozen members" of his group Al-Muhajiroun "have taken part in suicide bombings or have become close to Al-Qaeda and its support network."[4] Shortly after, he left the UK, where he had sheltered for 20 years, for Lebanon. While there he was informed by the Home Office that he would not be allowed back into the UK.

HuT may be preaching a non-violent revolution - but ask yourself a question: If HuT believes in non-violence, why are they specifically targeting military officers? Are they hoping for a bloodless coup down the road?

At the end of the day, pakistani military officers who have sworn to protect the nation state have no business joining a organization with a radical geopolitical agenda, that rejects nationalist affiliation in all its forms.

Fair point about the indian perspective - should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

News Jang Group - Editorial

In less than a month, the third attack on a senior military officer has taken place in Islamabad. A brigadier and his driver were injured when their vehicle was fired upon. We all know why military personnel are being targeted. Militants, possibly in an act of desperation, are quite obviously eager to seek revenge for the operation in South Waziristan. The audacious assault on the GHQ at the end of October showed how far they are willing to go for this. The fact that they see such attacks as a way of making their point indicates too that they now see this as the only way of striking back. Perhaps they know they cannot hang on to their citadels in the north much longer.

But there are also other points to consider. Each of the attacks has apparently been backed by rock solid intelligence. The gunmen seemed to know precisely when and along what route their victims would travel. This also holds true of some attempts to strike down ministers or other key figures. One wonders where the information comes from, or why the militants seem to have such ready access to it.

There have over the past weeks been whispers of insiders within the security setup who may have militant sympathies. Schools have been warned about attempts at entry by persons in police uniform – either genuine or fake. Others suggest the Taliban may be receiving tipoffs from people in key places. The nexus which has existed in the past between these elements and segments in the establishment builds suspicion and makes this more likely. These allegations need to be investigated in detail and measures taken against anyone suspected of aiding persons out to destroy the state of Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

from the time Zia was appointed CoAS by ZABhutto, till his death in 1988, there was a deliberate institution of "islamization" of the PA, esp the western oriented officers cadre, so therefore at this time many in the general staff have had had gone through this orientation - Musharraf and Kiyani have "weeded out" this "mind-set" from the top, key echelons of the PA.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

from the time Zia was appointed CoAS by ZABhutto, till his death in 1988, there was a deliberate institution of "islamization" of the PA, esp the western oriented officers cadre, so therefore at this time many in the general staff have had had gone through this orientation - Musharraf and Kiyani have "weeded out" this "mind-set" from the top, key echelons of the PA.

I can only hope this weed-out policy will be applied at the middle ranking officer level as well - the majors, colonels, brigadiers etc. The cesspool of militant sympathizers needs to be cleaned out across the board within the officer corps.

 

[Khajur]

Iqbal summed up "Elite & Moderate" pretty nicely

You are Nisars by your looks, but Hindus by conduct,
Your culture puts to shame even the Jewish sects.
-Iqbal

No doubt Iqbal was an brilliant intellectual.
But some of his opinions are that of a religious bigot.