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Mushrraf: Fundamentalists in the Army

Unfortunately , religious political parties MMA( was second largest party emerged in previous election during Musharaf era), JI, JUI always failed to deliver their commitments , but if you join percentage votes of MLN and MLQ it will be more then 65% of total vote caste in last election.ML shall remain largest muslim party of Pakistan who created Pakistan on basis of two nation theory.



Pakistani general election, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People use wikipidia for Amusement not for knowledge second other then NWFP no ones votes for religious parties.

Please update your records.:lol:

ML shall remain largest muslim party of Pakistan who created Pakistan on basis of two nation theory.

I am sorry whats ML has any thing to do with Religious parties last i checked JI was against the creation of pakistan so i am kind of confused here what are you trying to say.
 
People use wikipidia for Amusement not for knowledge second other then NWFP no ones votes for religious parties.

Please update your records.:lol:



I am sorry whats ML has any thing to do with Religious parties last i checked JI was against the creation of pakistan so i am kind of confused here what are you trying to say.

Please provide better link if you dont agree with wikipidia , election results can not be tampered .

65% Muslim league( MLN&MLQ) votes mean still muslim league has larger vote bank as compared to PPP liberal democrats and religious pressure groups .

Pakistan was made for muslim and remain muslim majority country that is reason west called it most dangrous country with majority muslim(fundamentalist) population and nukes in hand.:lol:
 
Fundamentalist;561126]Please provide better link if you dont agree with wikipidia , election results can not be tampered .
Ok you made the claim and was trying to support it with Wikipidia i am simply saying its not a reliable source so u have to provide a diffrent link not I.

65% Muslim league( MLN&MLQ) votes mean still muslim league has larger vote bank as compared to PPP liberal democrats and religious pressure groups
.

Just because Its names is Muslim leaque dosent Mean its a religious party second you cannot combine 2 different parties votes to Make a majority calculation

Pakistan was made for muslim and remain muslim majority country that is reason west called it most dangrous country with majority muslim(fundamentalist) population and nukes in hand.:lol:

pakistan was Made for Muslims no doubt and no one has called it a most dangerous nation cause of its Muslim population.

few idiots living in caves and trying to inforce there views on others meant nothing when the push comes to shove they are being shoved where the sun dont shine.westren Media making a big deal out of that situation dosent changes the reality on the ground only 2% of the pouplation ever votes for Religious parties.

From the situation on the ground in PK Mullahs days are numbered and the one you keep calling fundamentalist are Mostly unwanted Arabs uzbecks and others combined(they cant vote in pakistan) Not just pakistanies.
 
Today definition as per acts is :Fund--&--Mentalist
This is biggest illusion that one who obey all Shariet rules and forcely implement over other is the best Muslim and called Fundamentalist.
This illusion victims are in Millions in Pakistan.Swat people are one of example.
Islam is not religion to just offer prayer,Fast,Zakat and hifz Qurran.
Islam is religion of Thought to explore in Qurran and self accountability(Jihad e Nafs) is the early step before to change others.
This is practice of Aolyia Karam who were spread Islam in Subcontinent with Love and their own life model.
 
Today definition as per acts is :Fund--&--Mentalist
This is biggest illusion that one who obey all Shariet rules and forcely implement over other is the best Muslim and called Fundamentalist.
This illusion victims are in Millions in Pakistan.Swat people are one of example.
Islam is not religion to just offer prayer,Fast,Zakat and hifz Qurran.
Islam is religion of Thought to explore in Qurran and self accountability(Jihad e Nafs) is the early step before to change others.
This is practice of Aolyia Karam who were spread Islam in Subcontinent with Love and their own life model.

Please dont confused your self with words extremist and fundamentalist , ie TTP agenda is extremist but TJ and Wali Allah agenda is fundmentalist(Dawah and Sufisim) .

Pakistanis had rejected extremist agenda those who wanted to implement islam through power of sword.

Fundamentalist are muslim who believe that jehad( jehad bil nafs,jehad bil mal) is continues process , which should be continue uptill there is stage came when majority of muslim practing islam and wanted a system of government known as Shraiah .

Your point is valid that islam spread in all over the world through Wali Allah's (Abdul Qadir Gillani RA,Ali Hajweri RA,Khawaja najam din ajmeri RA,Shams Tabrez RA,Baba Fareed Shaker Ghanj RA) they all spread islam with love and peace not with sword.

Islam zinda huta hai Har Karbala kay baad.
 
Ok you made the claim and was trying to support it with Wikipidia i am simply saying its not a reliable source so u have to provide a diffrent link not I.

.

Just because Its names is Muslim leaque dosent Mean its a religious party second you cannot combine 2 different parties votes to Make a majority calculation



pakistan was Made for Muslims no doubt and no one has called it a most dangerous nation cause of its Muslim population.

few idiots living in caves and trying to inforce there views on others meant nothing when the push comes to shove they are being shoved where the sun dont shine.westren Media making a big deal out of that situation dosent changes the reality on the ground only 2% of the pouplation ever votes for Religious parties.

From the situation on the ground in PK Mullahs days are numbered and the one you keep calling fundamentalist are Mostly unwanted Arabs uzbecks and others combined(they cant vote in pakistan) Not just pakistanies.

My dear cheata bhai,

muslim league is party of muslims of Pakistan who made Pakistan.I dont consider religious parties they are pressure groups nothing more .

No doubt muslim league is divided into two parties but their %age vote bank is 65% still largest .

Let me clear you jehadi mullah ie TTP are not even .00001% of total population of Pakistan and no body support them , that is reason nation is supporting PA against them.

I think now you understand my point,Now you can run at 90 MPH:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
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I think we clearly need to clarify that extremists and fundamentalists are entirely different.
The extremists are very few and disliked by most people whether in the Army or not.

It truly is pathetic to see experts judging the Army when it offers juices instead of Johny Walker to them...this obsession with cosmetic things is what is common in the anti and pro Islamic extremists, one judges Islam only on the cosmetic things and the other measures Islam only in such cosmetic things like beard, Hijab etc...
In the end both extremes miss the true Islamic values of equality, justice, social welfare, forgiveness etc.
The social reform done by the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the true essence of Islam and his legacy in no way justifies any extremism and terrorism that is being perpetrated by those who nefarious organizations which claim to be fighting for Islam.
One can see staunch Muslims in the Pakistan Army who have been martyred fighting the TTP and whose conservative Muslim (fundamentalist) families are proud of their son's sacrifice for Pakistan.

Some people call PA extremists and others call them as followers of the west.
The very reason that both views exist makes me even more confident that the PA is indeed treading the middle ground which it should.
That is why it is irking both the Islamic extremists who want nothing better than PA to serve their twisted aims regardless of the cost, and those anti Islamic extremists who wish the PA to be entirely rid of any trace of Islam.

Our soldiers shout Allah o Akbar and many seek martyrdom in a just cause (not terrorism), they do not seek the bloody death and destruction of others and do not gloat in the misfortune of the non Muslims.
They have been deployed throughout the world and have always proven their value as reliable and trustworthy troops who have helped U.N. in many noble humanitarian operations.
They have sacrificed their lives for the U.N. missions regardless of which nation benefits from their efforts.
Such troops will never take up arms in favor of terrorists or extremists.
Rotten eggs are everywhere but they should be taken as the exception and not as the pules of any organization.
 
yeah sir is right there are few some fundamentalist in our army but thier proportion is quite lessnearluy negligible
 
ISLAMABAD: Omar Saeed Sheikh, a detained Pakistani militant, had made hoax calls to President Asif Ali Zardari and the Chief of Army Staff, Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, in a bid to heighten Pakistan-India tensions after last year’s terrorist attacks on Mumbai, investigators have told Dawn.

‘Omar Saeed Sheikh was the hoax caller. It was he who threatened the civilian and military leaderships of Pakistan over telephone. And he did so from inside Hyderabad jail,’ investigators said.

The controversy came to light after Dawn broke the story, exactly one year ago, that a hoax caller claiming to be then Indian foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee was making threatening calls to President Zardari.


It was on the night of Nov 26 last year that Saadia Omar, Omar Sheikh’s wife, informed him about the carnage in Mumbai. The sources said that the information was passed on to Omar in Hyderabad jail through his mobile phone, which he was secretly using without the knowledge of the administration.

All but one of the attackers who India alleged were Lashkar-i-Taiba terrorists were shot dead by security personnel.

Saadia kept updating Omar about the massacre through the night and small hours of the morning. On the night of Nov 28, when the authorities had regained control over the better part of the city, Omar Saeed, using a UK-registered mobile SIM, made a phone call to Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee.

He told an operator handling Mr Mukherjee’s calls that he was the President of Pakistan.
Indian officials started verification as part of security precautions and, after some time, the operator informed Omar Saeed (who was posing to be Pakistan’s president) that the foreign minister would get in touch with him soon. Omar now made a call to President Asif Ali Zardari and then the Chief of Army Staff.

He also made an attempt to talk to the US secretary of state, but security checks barred his way.

The presidency swung into action soon after Mr Zardari’s conversation with the adventurous militant.

President Zardari first spoke to Prime Minister Gilani and informed him about the happenings. He also took Interior Minister Rehman Malik into the loop.

In Rawalpindi, Gen Kayani immediately spoke to the chief of the Inter Services Intelligence, Lt- Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

According to sources, not only President Asif Zardari was taken in by Omar’s audacity but the COAS was also baffled by his cheekiness.

Gen Kayani, sharing his thoughts with close associates, said he had been bewildered by the caller’s threatening tone.

But Maj Gen Athar Abbas, the military spokesman, finds the report unbelievable. ‘I am not his (Army chief’s) operator. I don’t know who puts calls through to him, but I think this can’t be true,’ said an incredulous Athar Abbas.

Interestingly, when Omar Saeed Sheikh was making these hoax calls, the Lashkar-i-Taiba (LET) chief was also in Karachi, but it is not known whether Omar Saeed was acting under the guidance of Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi or on his own.

INVESTIGATIONS: On the other hand, investigators got into the act without wasting time, coming up with their findings within hours.

Their conclusion was that the phone call which came from the Indian external affairs ministry was actually their (Indians’) check.

They said the calls to President Zardari and the army chief were made from a Britain-registered SIM.

Gen (retired) Pervez Musharraf, in his autobiography, had alleged that Omar Saeed was an agent of MI6, the British intelligence agency.

The very next morning, Nov 29, Hyderabad jail was raided by intelligence agencies and over a dozen SIMs were recovered along with two mobile sets. Majid Siddiqui, the jail superintendent, was suspended.

‘I don’t know much but it is true that some mobile SIMs and mobile sets were recovered from Omar Saeed Sheikh when he was in Hyderabad jail.

I got him transferred to Karachi jail because that is a far better place for such high-profile terrorists,’ Allauddin Abbasi, DIG Prisons, Hyderabad, told Dawn over phone.

The authorities had a word with Saadia Omar too. She was advised to ‘control’ herself. The matter was then placed in the files of secret agencies marked as ‘secret’.

The Federal Investigation Agency never interrogated Omar Saeed about the Mumbai attacks. Dawn’s efforts for getting the viewpoint of Tariq Khosa , the FIA chief, drew a blank.

HIGH PROFILE: Omar, currently confined in a high security cell of Karachi Jail, has a long record of militancy, from kidnapping foreigners in Mumbai in 1994 to kidnapping Daniel Pearl in Jan 2002.

Omar Saeed Sheikh was freed by India in Dec 1999 as part of a deal that saw New Delhi agreeing to release a number of militant leaders in exchange for the freedom of hostages on board an India plane hijacked to Kabul.

Soon after his release from Indian captivity, Omar Saeed developed close relations with the LET leadership, including Zakiur Rehman Lakhwi.

He was invited to a training camp in Muzaffarabad, the capital of Azad Kashmir, where he spent a couple of days delivering lectures to recruits.

Sources said Lakhwi wanted Omar to join LET and give the organisation an international face.

In Feb 2002, Omar was arrested for the murder of US journalist Daniel Pearl.
 
ISLAMABAD: Omar Saeed Sheikh, a detained Pakistani militant, had made hoax calls to President Asif Ali Zardari and the Chief of Army Staff, Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, in a bid to heighten Pakistan-India tensions after last year’s terrorist attacks on Mumbai, investigators have told Dawn.

‘Omar Saeed Sheikh was the hoax caller. It was he who threatened the civilian and military leaderships of Pakistan over telephone. And he did so from inside Hyderabad jail,’ investigators said.

The controversy came to light after Dawn broke the story, exactly one year ago, that a hoax caller claiming to be then Indian foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee was making threatening calls to President Zardari.


It was on the night of Nov 26 last year that Saadia Omar, Omar Sheikh’s wife, informed him about the carnage in Mumbai. The sources said that the information was passed on to Omar in Hyderabad jail through his mobile phone, which he was secretly using without the knowledge of the administration.

All but one of the attackers who India alleged were Lashkar-i-Taiba terrorists were shot dead by security personnel.

Saadia kept updating Omar about the massacre through the night and small hours of the morning. On the night of Nov 28, when the authorities had regained control over the better part of the city, Omar Saeed, using a UK-registered mobile SIM, made a phone call to Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee.

He told an operator handling Mr Mukherjee’s calls that he was the President of Pakistan.
Indian officials started verification as part of security precautions and, after some time, the operator informed Omar Saeed (who was posing to be Pakistan’s president) that the foreign minister would get in touch with him soon. Omar now made a call to President Asif Ali Zardari and then the Chief of Army Staff.

He also made an attempt to talk to the US secretary of state, but security checks barred his way.

The presidency swung into action soon after Mr Zardari’s conversation with the adventurous militant.

President Zardari first spoke to Prime Minister Gilani and informed him about the happenings. He also took Interior Minister Rehman Malik into the loop.

In Rawalpindi, Gen Kayani immediately spoke to the chief of the Inter Services Intelligence, Lt- Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

According to sources, not only President Asif Zardari was taken in by Omar’s audacity but the COAS was also baffled by his cheekiness.

Gen Kayani, sharing his thoughts with close associates, said he had been bewildered by the caller’s threatening tone.

But Maj Gen Athar Abbas, the military spokesman, finds the report unbelievable. ‘I am not his (Army chief’s) operator. I don’t know who puts calls through to him, but I think this can’t be true,’ said an incredulous Athar Abbas.

Interestingly, when Omar Saeed Sheikh was making these hoax calls, the Lashkar-i-Taiba (LET) chief was also in Karachi, but it is not known whether Omar Saeed was acting under the guidance of Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi or on his own.

INVESTIGATIONS: On the other hand, investigators got into the act without wasting time, coming up with their findings within hours.

Their conclusion was that the phone call which came from the Indian external affairs ministry was actually their (Indians’) check.

They said the calls to President Zardari and the army chief were made from a Britain-registered SIM.

Gen (retired) Pervez Musharraf, in his autobiography, had alleged that Omar Saeed was an agent of MI6, the British intelligence agency.

The very next morning, Nov 29, Hyderabad jail was raided by intelligence agencies and over a dozen SIMs were recovered along with two mobile sets. Majid Siddiqui, the jail superintendent, was suspended.

‘I don’t know much but it is true that some mobile SIMs and mobile sets were recovered from Omar Saeed Sheikh when he was in Hyderabad jail.

I got him transferred to Karachi jail because that is a far better place for such high-profile terrorists,’ Allauddin Abbasi, DIG Prisons, Hyderabad, told Dawn over phone.

The authorities had a word with Saadia Omar too. She was advised to ‘control’ herself. The matter was then placed in the files of secret agencies marked as ‘secret’.

The Federal Investigation Agency never interrogated Omar Saeed about the Mumbai attacks. Dawn’s efforts for getting the viewpoint of Tariq Khosa , the FIA chief, drew a blank.

HIGH PROFILE: Omar, currently confined in a high security cell of Karachi Jail, has a long record of militancy, from kidnapping foreigners in Mumbai in 1994 to kidnapping Daniel Pearl in Jan 2002.

Omar Saeed Sheikh was freed by India in Dec 1999 as part of a deal that saw New Delhi agreeing to release a number of militant leaders in exchange for the freedom of hostages on board an India plane hijacked to Kabul.

Soon after his release from Indian captivity, Omar Saeed developed close relations with the LET leadership, including Zakiur Rehman Lakhwi.

He was invited to a training camp in Muzaffarabad, the capital of Azad Kashmir, where he spent a couple of days delivering lectures to recruits.

Sources said Lakhwi wanted Omar to join LET and give the organisation an international face.

In Feb 2002, Omar was arrested for the murder of US journalist Daniel Pearl.

What has this story to do in this thread ?? Threads having this story are opened, and there is no link of this story to the thread under discussion.
 
“There are people with fundamentalist ideas in the Army, but I don’t think there is any possibility of these people getting organised and doing an uprising. These ‘fundos’ were disliked and not popular.”

Musharraf is telling truth. Fundamentalist ideas are gaining ground in Army, this is the direct result of having to fight talibs. Many people see it as a war forced upon them by US on fellow muslims. Sure, the fundo cannot organise an uprising. But largescale desertions into opposite camp(talibs) is a nightmarish scenario for PA. Because these people would know the exact tactics of PA, their working,...etc and would tilt the balance of power in the favour of Talibs.
 
Musharraf is telling truth. Fundamentalist ideas are gaining ground in Army, this is the direct result of having to fight talibs. Many people see it as a war forced upon them by US on fellow muslims. Sure, the fundo cannot organise an uprising. But largescale desertions into opposite camp(talibs) is a nightmarish scenario for PA. Because these people would know the exact tactics of PA, their working,...etc and would tilt the balance of power in the favour of Talibs.

A very flawed analysis having no link to the facts on the ground.
 
Musharraf said that he and General Kayani, who had been his nominee for chief of army staff, were still in telephonic contact. He said he didn’t think the Army was capable of mutiny — not the Army he knew. “There are people with fundamentalist ideas in the Army, but I don’t think there is any possibility of these people getting organised and doing an uprising. These ‘fundos’ were disliked and not popular.”

He added: “The Muslims think highly of Obama, and he should use his acceptability — even with the Taliban — and try to deal with them politically.”

Musharraf spoke of two prior attempts to create a fundamentalist uprising in the Army. In both the cases, he said, the officers involved were arrested and prosecuted. “I created the strategic force that controls all the strategic assets — eighteen to twenty thousand strong. They are monitored for character and for potential fundamentalism,” he said. He acknowledged, however, that things had changed since he’d left office. “People have become alarmed because of the Taliban and what they have done,” he said. “Everyone is now alarmed.”

-----------------------------------------

And this is probably why TTP/Jihadi thugs are able to get insider information for attacks on army officers and military complexes.
Thats pure speculation. Musharraf's comments are pointing towards nothing more than "There are bad apples everywhere". No one carries a mark of a fundamentalist, that can weed them out. If one is privy to the amount of screening every High ranking officer goes through, they'd never make the claim of a general working for the enemy.

Sure there are exceptions and mistakes happen, but there is neither any evidence that the Taliban is getting away so regularly that it can be called a trend or speculated that its from tip offs.

I think the 90s saw off the last bastions of fundamentalism from the army. Even Zia was a fundo-wanna-be, IMO.
 
Thats pure speculation. Musharraf's comments are pointing towards nothing more than "There are bad apples everywhere". No one carries a mark of a fundamentalist, that can weed them out. If one is privy to the amount of screening every High ranking officer goes through, they'd never make the claim of a general working for the enemy.

Sure there are exceptions and mistakes happen, but there is neither any evidence that the Taliban is getting away so regularly that it can be called a trend or speculated that its from tip offs.

I think the 90s saw off the last bastions of fundamentalism from the army. Even Zia was a fundo-wanna-be, IMO.

mush didnt just say that there are bad apples.

he said there are bad apples of a certain kind.

you cant ignore that part.

he said that there are fundamentalists in the officer corps. while we may speculate and debate about the difference between extremist and fundamentalist, the fundamentalists wont have been any concern to COAS but the extremists surely would.

aslo i remember till a few years ago, atleast the indian media used to use "fundamentalist" instead of "extremist". musharraf could just as easily be confusing the two.

this existence of "fundamentalists" is of particular concern to PA while fighting the TTP as the TTP goes about with a "more muslim than thou" attitude.
 
A very flawed analysis having no link to the facts on the ground.

Taimiji,
your ex-ruler Musharraf has openly admitted it. The analysis is not mine, its a fairly accepted analysis in intelligence circles around the world. The discontent on ground among the soldiers is a reality and PA is careful not to stretch them. That is one of the reasons for PR blitz carried out by PA accusing the talibs of being a puppets of mossad/cia/raw. And talibs frequently accuse PA of being puppet of US.

Of course, its different issue that both sides are telling truth to some extent.:D
 
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