Musharraf resigns; for nation and country

[roadrunner]

Why didn't he stick for a fight than, why didn't Musharraf challenge the charge sheet to prove his points?

When he resigned he took responsibility for the blame, end of story.

Why didn't he stand and fight? Because the fighting was tearing the country apart, the economy is already in tatters. He put Pakistan first before his own reputation, and did the honourable thing....quit.

One could never expect this of Zardari. He will always want one hand on the prime minister's seat even if the country is being torn apart.

Two very different men, two very different characters. One a tale of integrity and honour for his country, the other a thief. As always, nice guys finish second, but their legacy lasts forever.

 

[Energon]

Why didn't he stick for a fight than, why didn't Musharraf challenge the charge sheet to prove his points?

When he resigned he took responsibility for the blame, end of story.

Aren't you taking things a bit out of perspective? The picture being portrayed here is that Musharraf was an out of control politician who violated the constitution and now has to face a trial for doing so. Although one can retrofit the situation to look like this, I don't think it really describes the comprehensive picture accurately.

Like it or not in 1999, Gen Musharraf usurped power in a military coup d’état thereby essentially dissolving the constitution altogether and assumed the role of dictator-general. In this position he was the de facto leader of the nation with a free reign on all its matters of governance and policy. Furthermore, let's not forget that he was able to take over the country because the civilian government and its (non existent) institutions were unable to stop him from doing so. Point being that this isn't nearly as much as a "Musharraf problem" as it is an innate problem of Pakistan itself. This cherry picking of jurisprudence and democratic values of an otherwise defunct constitution is really nothing more than a farce.

 

[araz]

I have been reading all the comments from both the camps. My take is that Musharaf resigned because he had no other option. Any other option would have required the Armed froces to back him and they played neutral in this situation. I t takes a wise man to know when to retreat and Musharaf was not unwise. Ultimately, he has done a great service to the nation as now the focus of attention will lie on Nawaz and Zardari, and they have no option but to tread the straight nad narrow. They do not have anyone else to blame but themselves, if they goof up from now on.
Also, a strange scenario has emerged. If the next President is to be from PPP, they would still want to retain Article 58 2 B. Secondly, with Benazir gone, ther is no interest on the part of PPP to annul the Third term rule. This effectively rules out Nawaz. If the 2 start bickering, then even if PML(N) wins, they will still need 2/3 majority to annul that ammendment. So it is unlikely to happen.
So in short the fact that one thief will not fully trust the other one, they will establish a check and balance that would help in preserving the democratic way of life(Insha Allah)
So lets see what transpires in the next few days. Zardari will make or break his political career, over the handling of the judges issue.
Araz

 

[BATMAN]

^^ And why exactly he stepped down from COAS?
I guess people need to listen ot his speech properly and their in lies all the answers to the questions!
It does not mean that with every new parliament their should be new President.
On the one hand PPP leaders claim that Musharraf is power less and on the other hand they blame all turmoils and rapid ecnomic decline on him!

Reality is that when Zardari distributed 10 billion to his political activists in 3 months Musharraf warned them whioch triggers the whole impeachment saga but that was his duty.
Next Musharraf confronted US when Mr. Bush angairly ask Gilani 'who is incharge of ISI'.
Than he also challenged the US-NATO strikes in FATA.
Then incidentally some indian terrorist died in Sawat exposing another dimension and the tit bits of nexus.
All evil powers stood against one man and his resignation is just the begining of unfolding of political drama and we know usuall climax very well.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

i didn't even feel like posting anymore on any forum after hearing about this tragedy. I felt as if I was fighting with Musharraf, the best and most honest leader we have ever had civil or military.

after he resigned, it was as if I fell to the ground and burst into tears. I can't even explain why I am crying. is it because we lost to jahalat, ignorance? today is the day we fell. today is the day when we all fell, my friends.

Please see the following link below. don't turn away, but look and let the pain soak in. Look HARD at your future and tell me, do you want better?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/13611-bhuttostan.html#post184848

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Musharraf had to leave, and it was the right time for him to leave, perhaps even a little late in hindsight.

Leave aside his innocence or guilt when it came to the actions he took starting in 1999 - the fact of the matter is that local political and global WoT dynamics had reduced him to a figure who would find it almost impossible to initiate any progressive policies in Pakistan.

Like Bush, perhaps worse, anything associated with him would have been dragged down into the mud, regardless of whether it was of dire need. Unable to implement change on his own, he would have continued to provide the likes of Zardari, Nawaz and our awam (has anyone read the opinions on the street talking about inflation dropping, the economy surging and even electricity miraculously being available, now that Musharraf is gone?!) a scapegoat and a diversion.

With Musharraf gone, the politicians can try and show us how they are better (which I hope they do, in fact most of us do, despite our cynicism), or the electorate can perhaps learn (doubtful, given precedent, but lets chalk it down to discontinuity in democracy) to move beyond the figures dominating the scene next time around.

 

[ejaz007]

Its strange why we start making judgement on an issue that has just happened. Lets give some time and then make a judgement. Mr. Musharaf has just resigned lets wait say around six months and then see what has happened. His resignation has brought good or bad for the country.

Countries do not rely on individuals for survival, institutions are important. If some how we manage to strengthen the vital institutions than we all have reason to believe his resignation has been good for the country.

The judgements being passed are post haste.

 

[Interceptor]

Aren't you taking things a bit out of perspective? The picture being portrayed here is that Musharraf was an out of control politician who violated the constitution and now has to face a trial for doing so. Although one can retrofit the situation to look like this, I don't think it really describes the comprehensive picture accurately.

Like it or not in 1999, Gen Musharraf usurped power in a military coup d’état thereby essentially dissolving the constitution altogether and assumed the role of dictator-general. In this position he was the de facto leader of the nation with a free reign on all its matters of governance and policy. Furthermore, let's not forget that he was able to take over the country because the civilian government and its (non existent) institutions were unable to stop him from doing so. Point being that this isn't nearly as much as a "Musharraf problem" as it is an innate problem of Pakistan itself. This cherry picking of jurisprudence and democratic values of an otherwise defunct constitution is really nothing more than a farce.

You have some valid points and I aint here to bash, but the bitter reality is that his paid supporters were defending him on the media, I remember the day when Parvez Elahi said "we will elect him in uniform a hundred times" these corrupts sell outs were telling Pakistan that Musharraf wont leave without a fight, the Impeachment it self was said that Musharraf will face the Impeachment at all cost and they were saying he is calm, did you watch the video you will see that his words were displaced from his mouth, I merely quoted the resilience of a few of our members and that of the PML-Q.

I find the day he resigned 18 August a strange coincidence that on the 17th Zia traitor died and on the 18th Musharraf resigned in immense public pressure.

Institutions are always strong, its the people who are in charge that are responsible for its strength, who asked Musharraf to take away the rights of Pakistanis, they voted for Nawaz and they have a right to do so who gave Musharraf the right remove him, people are asking for a trail, the PPP might not allow that they dont want anything more to do with this tyrant, lets leave him be judged by the people he is a civilian and he can be lodged in front of court at any convenience.

He is an idiot I dont want any blame game his fate will be remembered is that Musharraf bowed in front of democracy, he is already made himself an example no need to carry on any further.

 

[Interceptor]

Its strange why we start making judgement on an issue that has just happened. Lets give some time and then make a judgement. Mr. Musharaf has just resigned lets wait say around six months and then see what has happened. His resignation has brought good or bad for the country.

Countries do not rely on individuals for survival, institutions are important. If some how we manage to strengthen the vital institutions than we all have reason to believe his resignation has been good for the country.

The judgements being passed are post haste.

Patients is what we all need, we took his autocratic role for nearly decade, now let the elected do their job. But one thing is for sure his resignation has taken away the conspirator of Awan-i-Sadar so the Politician better prove their importance with effect and let the next elections judge their abillity.

 

[extinct]

Please see the following. don't turn away, but look and let the pain soak in. Look HARD at your future and tell me, do you want better?
[/url]

Can not agree more... it is a sad day indeed and a sign of things to come I guess...

But like "Ayub ***** Haye Haye", soon the "awaam" will smell the coffee that Musharraf was their only hope, not a saint but several orders of magnitude better than the competition... I guess he went for the "Chudhary buradaraan" just because a general who comes in power via coup needs legitimacy as a politician and in the power vaccum after the coup that was what he was left with...

(The coup or infact the "counter-coup" by the way he rightly did in my view, as what PM Gunjoo did was already excessive, undignified and coarse; i.e. asking Pakistani COAS to land in India of all places if not an isolated air-strip!!! when he could have called him in his office and dismissed him like the constitution allows him to do... Pakistan Army is trained well enough to take care of their own... These pseudo-politicos should learn not to attempt cornering a tiger... )

The glue holding this house of cards read "coalition" is already giving way, the "activist" judge is too potent for even his presumed "saviors" and if he indeed is what they say of him then rest assured NRO would be in line too and if not then this all "topi drama" of "azad ud'liya" would be, well, just a slogan (which I KNOW it is)...

Ah.... And they said why they gave him Guard of Honor, well, in short because he deserves it, period, more than all these racoons let loose in the pantry by the "awaami mandate"...

Remember a good soldier knows when to advance and when to tactically-retreat. Now he can sit in his ranch on the out-skirts of Islamabad and watch these morons make an a$$ of themselves... we'll see what socio-economic and geo-political marvel this lousy bunch would lay, now that they have no more "witch" left for their witch-hunting...

Common enemy brought them together and with him out of the picture this charade will fall swiftly...

One thing is certain Pak Army will now do in Swat / FATA / Wana what they could not do because the constitutional head was "gurr'nail"... now they have cover of "muntakib hukoomaat"... and now they will kick-butt big time... and thats my silver lining of the issue...

In Musharraf's golden words, of pun I guess, "Pakistan ka Khuda Hafiz"...

 

[extinct]

With Musharraf gone, the politicians can try and show us how they are better (which I hope they do, in fact most of us do, despite our cynicism), or the electorate can perhaps learn (doubtful, given precedent, but lets chalk it down to discontinuity in democracy) to move beyond the figures dominating the scene next time around.

A snake is a snake, a wolf a wolf and a thief a thief... no miracle will happen until this nation finds out by itself that what they are electing is the same 1Kilo dead-weight they measured yesterday and it would still stay the same 1 Kilo today and tomorrow...

Corrupt PPP came and went, corrupt PML came and went, corrupt PPP again came and went and corrput PML again came and went and now the "ba-sha-oor awaam" tell them to make a "Thieves super-eleven" to take the crease...

Don't get me wrong, military is not the solution either, as a matter of fact that has actually grossly corrupted the military as well, but I do not know how much more of this turbulance this ship of democratic fools would take...

 

[salman nedian]

He is an idiot I dont want any blame game his fate will be remembered is that Musharraf bowed in front of democracy, he is already made himself an example no need to carry on any further.

PPP have civil dictatorship; see what they have done with Makhdoom Amin Fahim and it is being controlled by a single person.

 

[ZAB]

Indeed a sad day for Pakistan. Poor people of Pakistan do not understand the depth of honesty. They go after slogans of 1970s which kept nation poor. The nation will suffer of their selection of looters and dishonest politicians. There is no place for an honest, educated, and professional in the Pakistani politics. Which is full of family based and family owned groups. Mush did lead with authoritarian hand. That's what current model of modern China has shown. Let's see how these professional theives with looted wealth will lead. They could not do in the past and they will not do now. Army's role in Musharraf's departure is sad. This could be a conspiracy. But Mush's action never required impeachment and he should have given a fight than leaving for "chores and looters" so openly. Musharraf must come back as politician and go for change of the system by abolishing provinces. The model he introduced as Nazims is guide. Also follow Chinese Economic Model. British Style Democracy has produced corrupt leaders and Bilawal is in making as well. Why more than 100 million young man/women can not come and lead. Why this country has to be like a closely held corporation? Let's go for a change of system.

 

[moha199]

Moha199, its nice to see your love for Mush, Kindly tell me some logical and detailed reasons for your love. It seems that whole Pakistan is celebrating his departure.
What would u say regarding some issues inwhich Mush was directly involved, like Lal Masjid, Dr. Afia, Boluchistan crisis, Bhugti Crisis, Swat operation, WANA missions, Waziristan issue, Media crisis, Lawyars issues, missing persons, Dr. A. Q khan issue, direct USA attacks and some more like that....

May be your love is right, but majority of people are happy on this....if your love for him is true then kindly explain the above issues in his favour...

Thanks for being respectful! We usually don't get that over here Well I will surly address my reasons to love a guy! It might lead us to another debate here but I will still take a risk! Your have mentioned numeric issues here, I would love to address so lets go to your first one Former President was directly involved in those cases as you have claimed so I would like to correct this first. The issues that you have pointed out of his direct involvement are fuzzy, because no president have personal problems with anyone at least I would hope that!!!, So Musharraf wasn't personally against these people as much of you people think because I bet my life that he has not even spoken to them directly ever in his life and he had no reason of being in contact with them so his personality goes out of it. We may certainly say that all these people were affected directly by his policies some lived some are died, some are missing and its true and very true, let me be clear about that. I will move on to your objections now. First Lal masjid. Lal masjid was a case where I believe any responsible president or PM would have acted same as mush or worst then that he gave those terrorist 9 months to leave hiding places meaning lal masjid, reasons are fallowed. First it is located in the Capital of Pakistan which means it’s in the heart of Pakistan and by letting those terrorist daring to challenge the rite of government was not a good thing, especially when terrorists are challenging government’s rite right in the heart of a country. This Lal masjid scene damaged Pakistan's image very badly abroad, all the countries were taking it this way “A only nuclear armed Muslim country with the track record of AQ khans nuclear proliferations to north Korea, Iran and couple other countries with one million army cant control its 50 square mile capital!!! How should we trust Pakistan and why should we trust them” NATO and US surly wanted to come by themselves in Pakistan to do the job and they were looking for any excuse from Pakistan to justify their actions! Under all circumstances Musharraf still gave 9 months to terrorists to leave Lal masjid, with the guarantee of not putting them to trail if they stay in their villages,” I am talking about head terrorists” and bro I guess it’s a big time frankly speaking very long time which I think was a mistake, we should off gone in right away to finish the job! Because those 9 months were enough for terrorist to get the sympathy from other Muslim countries to portray Pakistan as a fake Muslim country plus it was enough time to convince plain Pakistani people. I know about Islam and you do too I dare and challenge anyone to justify Lal masjid stand off of terrorists by Islam and let me assured you, no one will be able to justify it through Islam (Quran or Ahidit) Its against Islam. Totally against it, especially in the mosque with all kinds of weapons that you can name! Terrorist had no justification to stay and make a mosque a battle ground; it was their choice not Musharraf’s. He did what was necessary to be done and that was to finish the job but still we tried to lower the casualties especially when terrorists were hiding among civilians’ women and children! Number 2 Dr afia well to be honest about it I really don't have enough knowledge about her so ill skip that until I will get some feedbacks and educate myself about this case. Moving ahead about Baluchistan and bhugti well I hope you know about the richness of Baluchistan with natural resources! In my understanding their were and are a lot of foreign hands in Baluchistan bolochi sparest groups wanted to take freedom from Pakistan, and they had been trying to do so for the longest time, and every time they become the instrument of our enemies. Bhugti was the main voice which was hurting Pakistan a lot ever since the American invasion of Afghanistan. US and India and couple other countries have interest of having Baluchistan separate from Pakistan or at least have some trouble their to use this are of proxies against Pakistan and I believe not to give up Baluchistan which means if they want to take Baluchistan away from Pakistan then they have two options, first leave Pakistan if you don't like it and live in Iran or Afghanistan, second options is if they decide to challenge Pakistan over this so they die, because Pakistan will not give up Baluchistan, so in this case Musharraf adopted a middle road which was going straight for the head of the snake which happened to be bhugti, whose son still live in Afghanistan. I think it was the best decision still not aggressive Pakistan army killed bhugti who had his own government in Baluchistan he had his own jails his own courts his own law in His area his own army equipped by Indians and Americans, as I have researched rest god knows! Musharraf gave orders to kill him after giving him a lot of warnings, these warnings you can check online on youtube as well, he deployed army to control the area to maintain the law and order plus so Pakistan can work with bolochi people who had no bridge with us. We built schools and colleges their build roads and did a lot of social and economical work there to win the hearts and minds of people! That was a good intention and good solution I 100% support it, if people get killed in this process, who want to confront Pakistan’s military might then so be it, they die!. Strong and aggressive answer but true one. SWAT problem is same we can’t afford to let this scum bag baitullah massod and radio molvi to challenge Pakistan and black mail us! They wanted to use SWAT area to plane attacks on Afghanistan, NATO, US forces and then come back to swat. In plain words they wanted Pakistani government to give them safe havens in swat. You tell me something would you let this happen. I would answer on my behalf NO. If we would have let them do whatever they wanted, I am sure that today we would have all these 80 countries entering Pakistan. Again he did it for Pakistan not for himself. Media question. This one is funny. He is a person who actually gave us a mass media, we had one channel today we have over 60 channels, he gave them freedom of speech that is why every one witnessed, people against him on TV. He closed cretin channels, because they were working for foreigners. You tell me one thing? USA talks about our nukes, our media carries it out for months then our some stupid journalists go and gather some wrong information about Pakistani military having some extremist elements in it, then debating about what if Pakistan falls apart who will control our nukes! All these debates went back on US and world media. Then our media started talking about our command and control system and how we need to improve it next day you will see US president asking president Musharraf about how good your command and control system is? You tell me this media was working for us or US. The owner of GEO TV lives in near by my area in US. It’s funny why Musharraf always had problem with GEO! This media didn’t help our government; rather it became convenient for US and world to pound us with millions of questions. AQ khan now! Musharraf’s government kept AQ khan in house arrest for is own security. If you remember those days Pakistan was busted with nuclear deals around the world. It was a hot topic plus, if you don’t know about stories of how Israel kidnapped Iraqi nuclear scientists. How US have kidnapped Russian scientist to find how their enemies work and what they actually hold! I guess one has to question; can Pakistan afford such a risk? For this I say Musharraf did the best thing even if he kept AQ khan against his will. When Pakistan was busted we threw everything on him that was the best move ever instead admitting it. The fall out of admitting could have been in the form of sanctions on Pakistan. AQ khans survive all the pain true but we as a nation were rescued. So, AQ khan should be happy of leaving how he has served his life to a nation of Pakistan. Now letting USA attacking Pakistani soil so here is my point. Can we afford to confront USA then the answer is NO. We just let them use our air space; they just attack in tribal areas. Now the question is who do they attack? Pakistani our terrorists? The answer is terrorists and yes its true that sometimes we have causalities but it’s the name of the war game. Either we let them kill there enemy or they kill us along with them or they sanctions us. Man we are not living in 90’s anymore where we can afford to have sanctions on us. God forbid if we get sanctions on us then it means that India has open hand since India won’t be sanctioned with us like in 90’s. We will fall many years behind India. Which means forget of catching up the world we will have to first catch up with India which will not make it easy for us by any mean once we fall behind. Brother let me tell you something governing a country is not easy. Second USA is the world king. King is always strong and it gets hard for small nations for us to beat all the moves of strong countries so I say one thing. Musharraf did all he could to benefit Pakistan since we were destined to be used by them. We still didn’t give up Kashmir, we still didn’t give up china’s relations, we still didn’t give up gawader, and we still didn’t give up our nukes. But by letting US use our land for transporting good to US bases in Afghanistan, we defiantly gained to control US supplies to Afghanistan.

 

[F.O.X]

i dont know when will our people decide to make their decisions on their own , we rely on others to make our decisions & if the result is not what we expected we blame others that it was there falt, what we dont realize it that we are the makers of our destiny & no one can change it.
We are people are hopeless we fight for what is ours not for what is right.

Any one who is anti musharaf just please answer me the following questions.
what did he did wrong to deserve this.? this is the man who fought two wars for this country he gave his blood for his country & that country is accusing him of not being patriot.
The one who are blaming him when did last time they did any thing for this country that give them the right to accuse him.

that man put his life on the line for this country being attacked 7 time in his tenure & still serving people didnt run away like others.

He holded our hand at a time when our whole nation was sinking & he alone brought us out was it that bad ??

He never cared for himself when it comes for the country he knew his people will not like his actions since they dont know what is good for them & what is bad but he still did what was best for the country regardless of his own falling popularity.



At last i just wan to say that.

Some times we dont deserve what we get, & some times we dont get what we deserve.


I dont care what any one says i was with him, i am with him & i will be with him .


Regards
Champ