Mujib's Search for the Fact about the Killing of Pakistan Army

[Md Akmal]

You are wrong. I never categorically denied that Muslims were converted mostly from the local Buddhists. Even the Pathans of Afghanistan were all Budhists before they accepted Islam. Don't teach me history lessons. I was telling the other part of the muslim population in Bengal. can you tell me what happened to those who came as worriors and settled in our land. What happened to those impoverished Arabs who settled also in Bengal. What happened to all those central asian nomads who also came after a muslim power was established in Bengal and who settled here? You either do not know these or you are trying to deny this out of facism. Respect your own ancestors.

@ eastwatch. I want to add one more thing regarding muslim settlemnt in Bengal.

1. I fully agree that most of the Bengalee muslims were Buddisths converted to muslims and not from Hindus.

2. There were many muslims from the Ummayiat Dynesty who flade from Iraq and took shelter in Bengal. Some went to Spain. Once the Abbassiate came to power there were lot of killing. For centuries together Bengal was the safe heaven for the muslim fugitives from the Northern India, Arab, Central Asia, Abbissinia and Norhern Africa. Basically the muslims from Central Asia due to fear of Changize Khan and Hallaku Khan flade to India and finally sellted in Bengal. Due to the fear of Marathas(Bolgies) many muslims from Malda and Nadia of West Bengal crossed the Padma river and settled in Bengal.

3. In those days of muslim rules all the administrators like the Kazis, Munsubdars, zamindars, jagirdars all came from either Afghan or Turkey or Persia. Even the common soldiers they used to brought from Abbisinia. That was the reason some times even "Habsies"(Black people) revolted and took power and ruled Bengal for more than a century.

 

[punit]

You are wrong. I never categorically denied that Muslims were converted mostly from the local Buddhists. Even the Pathans of Afghanistan were all Budhists before they accepted Islam. Don't teach me history lessons. I was telling the other part of the muslim population in Bengal. can you tell me what happened to those who came as worriors and settled in our land. What happened to those impoverished Arabs who settled also in Bengal. What happened to all those central asian nomads who also came after a muslim power was established in Bengal and who settled here? You either do not know these or you are trying to deny this out of facism. Respect your own ancestors.

You are coming with twisted logic and no proof abot 1971 killing. Say, how many of your own family died? How many of your neighbours died? Did 4.3% of your villagers die? I must agree that there were killings, but I do not accept the rate of killings. No one does in bangladesh and abroad any more. You guys are just destroying history. Better, go and count the number of deads in your own village, and then send the truth. You guys think that we do not count numbers, isn't it? It is you who do not know how many people make a million. Now, stop sending rubbish that is only enjoyed by the Indians.

Me think. If no rape no mass murder no high handness no denial of power to eastpakistanis took place. Then there was no reason 4 independence for BD. Which proves that Mujib muktiwahinis gen jia etc were traitors and rajakars were true patriots.

 

[Md Akmal]

Me think. If no rape no mass murder no high handness no denial of power to eastpakistanis took place. Then there was no reason 4 independence for BD. Which proves that Mujib muktiwahinis gen jia etc were traitors and rajakars were true patriots.

@ Who says that there was no killing or no rape ? Ofcouse there were killing and rape by the Pakistan army. But the question is about the scale of killing and rape. The way the AL and Indian media is propagating it is too much beyond imagination.

 

[eastwatch]

@Iajdani, because Indians and Awami Leaguers are keeping on talking absurd figures of killing and raping, some Pakistani and Indian friends laugh at us. They say, 'Ek goli pe das Bangali marte hain. Ek to goli pe marte hai, aur baaki nau goili ka awaz sun ke marte hain.' Keep this in mind. What you guys are propagating proves only our weakness. You should study the history of warfares during modern age. You will get real figures of deaths and calamities in the 1st WW, 2nd WW, Korean war, Vietnam War, Khemr war, Bosnia war and others.

How come, only BD people were killed in such a large number? Are we people so stupid even not hear the sounds of bullets, and also so numb not to run away? It was flood season in Bangladesh, west troops had hard time to move. How come they have killed many millions in such a situation? They killed, but we did not see that, how it is possible?

Cowards will keep on lamenting on false figures. Think of Pathans, they never keep on weeping because they are brave people. While BD young people in those days fought with bravery, you guys are not praising their bravery. We should write stories and novels about the bravery of our FFs instead of lamenting on deaths. It is disgusting.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Actually, why don't we accept that no one was raped or killed.

Were they?

From the discussion it does not appear so that these thing happened.

Now, if the Bangladeshis are satisfied that none was raped or killed, why should others bother?

It was not as if one's own mother and sisters were raped or their kith and kin was killed!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

@ Who says that there was no killing or no rape ? Ofcouse there were killing and rape by the Pakistan army. But the question is about the scale of killing and rape. The way the AL and Indian media is propagating it is too much beynd imagination.

What makes you feel that it happened?

You yourself state it is all propaganda.

BTW the US newspapers and Time magazine are not Indians.

They are US and the US was against India as such!!

Leave the Indians alone and if you feel that some East Pakistani's mothers and sisters were not raped and some East Pakistanis were not killed, so be it.

It is your people who are said to have been raped and killed. If that situation delights you, so be it!

How does number matter?

Rape and killing maybe delightful, but only to psychopaths.

And I wonder if anyone will agree that there were psychopaths around!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

You are wrong. I never categorically denied that Muslims were converted mostly from the local Buddhists. Even the Pathans of Afghanistan were all Budhists before they accepted Islam. Don't teach me history lessons. I was telling the other part of the muslim population in Bengal. can you tell me what happened to those who came as worriors and settled in our land. What happened to those impoverished Arabs who settled also in Bengal. What happened to all those central asian nomads who also came after a muslim power was established in Bengal and who settled here? You either do not know these or you are trying to deny this out of facism. Respect your own ancestors.

That is an interesting aspect of history.

So East Pakistanis were all Buddhists?

 

[monitor]

3 million dead and other social myths Why we need them and why we need facts too

Afsan Chowdhury


Although 40 years have passed since the year 1971, we have grown larger in rhetoric and sentimentality but in some ways have shrunk when it comes to actual evidence based history writing. Few seem to be interested in learning and researching on 1971. Most are concerned about who declared the independence of Bangladesh after the crackdown, an issue produced by contemporary politics. Most are also burdened with the figures of 3 million dead and 300,000 raped that has no evidentiary basis. Most believe it but those who do not are forced to accept because making a contest is often read as an act of treachery. The history of the numbers is interesting. Throughout nine months, no official estimates were made by anyone on the deaths or the dying and no reports exist that such a census was taken. The only number that is mentioned is that of refugees who according to various agencies crossed over ten million. The first mention of numbers started when Sheikh Mujib returned from Pakistan. He mentioned the numbers and of course it soon became currency and everyone started to mention this number as a gospel figure without any verification. But even in early 1972 it faced credibility crisis and people started to question it through word of mouth. It became quite widespread and so AL leaders were asked to survey their own districts and report back. At that time there were 17 districts and at least one report that is from Noakhali said that 150,000 people had been killed. Other reports were not remembered but the basic idea was to supply the numbers to fit Sheikh Mujib’s utterances. Nor is there any mention of the nature, process and validity of the survey tools. The second effort was the survey run by the Bangladesh police. It was held that since there is a thana in every micro area and the police knew more than others about what was going on, they could get the correct information and provide an official history of the period. However, this survey was never made public for reasons never stated. While working for the “Muktijuddher Dolilpatra” project under Hasan Hafizur Rahman, a lot of efforts were made to secure this survey. However, despite all attempts this wasn’t handed over. Unofficially we were told that the numbers of those dead were too low and nobody wanted such shocking evidence to be made public. Too high, too low compared to what But what is this too low number anyway? It’s too low compared to what? Any number o dead is too high anyway. The 3 million numbers has become a great obstacle to learning the facts about our history. It’s said that Sheikh Mujib got confused between 3 lakhs and 3 million. The number was actually whispered into his ears by Tajuddin Ahmed, Mujibnagar PM who had before or after made no mention of any such figure. We are generally used to using lakhs and hardly ever use millions so there could be some sense in this but again this is speculation. But is there any chance that we will ever know the number as a part of historical evidence discreet from social myth which the number has become? I feel the chances are too few because no government will want to take the responsibility of delivering news to the people that will actually shock and become a political issue. So the actual number will never be found and the issue of quantifying our suffering will remain a matter of contest and non-validated guess work. Yet this number has other meanings. In the absence of any collective national narrative on 1971, the numbers have become social estimates of not the dead but a measure of our suffering in that year. It’s a way of indicating our pain. The exact number has interest to the historian and fact collectors but to the people it means otherwise. It’s more of a social statement, not based on reality but communicating a sense of what people feel they experienced. That’s why instead of trying to contest the number, private research groups should undertake the task which is quite doable if they want to even today. At least several samplings of major areas can deliver much information. Evidence is also important and needed because it says what really happened which is as important as how people feel.

 

[eastwatch]

3 million dead and other social myths Why we need them and why we need facts too
Afsan Chowdhury

It is not important what an unknown Afsan Chowdhury or an eastwatch writes. Important thing is what the 1st govt of Bangladesh led by Sk. Mujib has found by surveying the villages. All other articles should refer to that report or do its own survey to prove otherwise, this is what I think.

However, I must write what Poet Nirmalendu Gun wrote. He wrote that, the 3 million is perhaps a SYMBOLIC figure, because it has nothing to do with reality. Although most of the Hindus left BD and went to India, Nirmalendu Gun did not leave. He travelled from one place to another during the war. He has long beards, so the PA troops and razakaars mistook him as a Muslim. He wrote stories on how he survived without going to India in 1971.

 

[Hammy007]

Why are you so hell bent on proving or disproving the facts of the genocide of 1971???

Were you or your parents were RAJAKARS and involved in mass killing and raping?

From your earlier post it is safe to assume that you came from a non bengali background. Is it the reason you are posting anti Bangaladesh propaganda here?

yes the muktis were innocents, all others were killers and rapers

 

[Al-zakir]

@Iajdani, because Indians and Awami Leaguers are keeping on talking absurd figures of killing and raping, some Pakistani and Indian friends laugh at us. They say, 'Ek goli pe das Bangali marte hain. Ek to goli pe marte hai, aur baaki nau goili ka awaz sun ke marte hain.' Keep this in mind. What you guys are propagating proves only our weakness. You should study the history of warfares during modern age. You will get real figures of deaths and calamities in the 1st WW, 2nd WW, Korean war, Vietnam War, Khemr war, Bosnia war and others.

How come, only BD people were killed in such a large number? Are we people so stupid even not hear the sounds of bullets, and also so numb not to run away? It was flood season in Bangladesh, west troops had hard time to move. How come they have killed many millions in such a situation? They killed, but we did not see that, how it is possible?

Cowards will keep on lamenting on false figures. Think of Pathans, they never keep on weeping because they are brave people. While BD young people in those days fought with bravery, you guys are not praising their bravery. We should write stories and novels about the bravery of our FFs instead of lamenting on deaths. It is disgusting.

Wow sir! Excellent post. I could not have explain any better although I doubt Iajdani's would agree with you. People like Iajdani and Bharti are hell bend to prove Bangladeshis as coward race. I pity the coward like him. Shame less creature, he is.

Thank you for the post.

 

[TopCat]

That is an interesting aspect of history.

So East Pakistanis were all Buddhists?

Most historian believes that, it was nearly half of the population who were Buddhist by the time Islam came to this land. As Hindu % of population remained more or less stagnant so its safe to say that most converts were Buddhist.

 

[TopCat]

Wow sir! Excellent post. I could not have explain any better although I doubt Iajdani's would agree with you. People like Iajdani and Bharti are hell bend to prove Bangladeshis as coward race. I pity the coward like him. Shame less creature, he is.

Thank you for the post.

The problem is Braves all ran away and the coward won the War.. You can win a battle through your gutts but to win a war you need morale and intellegence. Bengalis have all of them, gutts, intellegence and morale.

Just look back the history, its the east indian who ruled from Sumatra to Afhganistan not the Pathan. The Pathan/Turk who migrated here became the local of this land and ruled with local support. It was never been the colony of Afhganistan, rather Afhganistan remained as the colony of this land even under Pathans and Mughals.

 

[Zabaniyah]

@Iajdani, because Indians and Awami Leaguers are keeping on talking absurd figures of killing and raping, some Pakistani and Indian friends laugh at us. They say, 'Ek goli pe das Bangali marte hain. Ek to goli pe marte hai, aur baaki nau goili ka awaz sun ke marte hain.' Keep this in mind. What you guys are propagating proves only our weakness. You should study the history of warfares during modern age. You will get real figures of deaths and calamities in the 1st WW, 2nd WW, Korean war, Vietnam War, Khemr war, Bosnia war and others.

How come, only BD people were killed in such a large number? Are we people so stupid even not hear the sounds of bullets, and also so numb not to run away? It was flood season in Bangladesh, west troops had hard time to move. How come they have killed many millions in such a situation? They killed, but we did not see that, how it is possible?

Cowards will keep on lamenting on false figures. Think of Pathans, they never keep on weeping because they are brave people. While BD young people in those days fought with bravery, you guys are not praising their bravery. We should write stories and novels about the bravery of our FFs instead of lamenting on deaths. It is disgusting.

This is probably best post I have seen so far

 

[LaBong]

People don't seem to have the idea that a heavily armed professional army can wipe off any unarmed civilian population, they be pathan, mongols or martians! :s