Mongol conquest of Europe;A short glimpse

[scorpionx]

Well, let's make it simple. Where was the Mongol Admin center for Germania? Italia? Names of a few governors? The Roman, Persian, Etc. Empires had centers you could Identify. Mongolian empire was big....but mainly empty nothing.

Ok, now understand your point. Well,the Mongols were not Persians or Romans. It will be more appropriate to call the later two,civilizations.Where as the Mongols were just a set of fierce warriors who had no reputed and respected culture of their own.They had to learn valuable lessons from the Chinese,Iranians and the Slavs and applied it,modified their skills and techniques in each and every battle they fought.
And conquering nations does not always have to set administration in the conquered regions,isn't it? (I hope I understood your point correctly.)

 

[Cherokee]

@Cherokee

Regarding treatment of Hindus by Alauddin Khilji , Barni observes :

"The Hindus were so reduced to be unable to keep a horse, wear fine clothes or enjoy any of life luxuries. No Hindu could hold up his head . He reduced them to such poverty that they could not even dream of revolting against the Sultan . ........."

His historic attack on Chittor in 1303 CE, and the folklore of him hearing of the beauty of Hindu queen of Chittor, Rani Padmini, the wife of King Rawal Ratan Singh and the subsequent story has been immortalized in the epic poem Padmavat[ The Imperial Gazetteer of India, 1909, v. 2, p. 430.]



Regarding his treatment of Muslims ,

According to Ibn Batuta, the Khiljis encouraged conversion to Islam by making it customary to have the convert presented to the sultan (who would place a robe on him and reward him with gold bracelets).

During IkhtiyarUddin Bakhtiyar Khilji's control of Bengal, Muslim missionaries in India achieved their greatest success in the number of converts to Islam.
[The preaching of Islam: a history of the propagation of the Muslim faith By Sir Thomas Walker Arnold, pg.212 & 227-228]

I do not get your point .

 

[M. Sarmad]

I do not get your point .

Read all the previous posts , may be you realize your stupidity .....

 

[Cherokee]

Read all the previous posts , then may be you realize your stupidity .....

Stupid is as stupid does : Forrest Gump .

 

[M. Sarmad]

Stupid is as stupid does : Forrest Gump .

Have you got anythhing good (related) to contribute to this thread on history ??? If not , then no need to troll

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

@Cherokee

Regarding treatment of Hindus by Alauddin Khilji , Barni observes :

"The Hindus were so reduced to be unable to keep a horse, wear fine clothes or enjoy any of life luxuries. No Hindu could hold up his head . He reduced them to such poverty that they could not even dream of revolting against the Sultan . ........."

His historic attack on Chittor in 1303 CE, and the folklore of him hearing of the beauty of Hindu queen of Chittor, Rani Padmini, the wife of King Rawal Ratan Singh and the subsequent story has been immortalized in the epic poem Padmavat[ The Imperial Gazetteer of India, 1909, v. 2, p. 430.]



Regarding his treatment of Muslims ,

According to Ibn Batuta, the Khiljis encouraged conversion to Islam by making it customary to have the convert presented to the sultan (who would place a robe on him and reward him with gold bracelets).

During IkhtiyarUddin Bakhtiyar Khilji's control of Bengal, Muslim missionaries in India achieved their greatest success in the number of converts to Islam.
[The preaching of Islam: a history of the propagation of the Muslim faith By Sir Thomas Walker Arnold, pg.212 & 227-228]

Yes,barani is derogatory towards hindus throughout his narrative,which is not surprising given that he was from a orthodox muslim noble family.And if u think the muslim religious scholars had it all their way under alauddin ,here's a fact.Alauddin consulted the ulema only twice on matters of religion during his whole reign as to making decisions based on religius rules and here's how it went.
The chief religious head with folded hands shivering said - 'Your majesty if i tell the truth u will surely take my head'.Only at this hilarious situation did alauddin reassure him and allow him to tell his piece.Alauddin ruled neither with support from populace,ulema or nobility.But with the power of his army,which was the largest standing army in medieval india till akbar.Since he was not dependant on any,he didn't give a shit about any.
Peasnats were taxed an atrocious half of their produce-hindu and muslim,So u think only the hindu section of masses were impoverished.Lol.
And this quote actually applies mostly to the previously rich khuts and muqaddams or village headmen ,previously who were exempt but now had to pay their share .
Market control applied to everybody.It kept goods cheap and this was a good side for common people and its foremost aim -to maintain his massive standing army was achieved.
As for conversion,well we have already seen in kafur's case what a great precedent that set.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yes,barani is derogatory towards hindus throughout his narrative,which is not surprising given that he was from a orthodox muslim noble family.And if u think the muslim religious scholars had it all their way under alauddin ,here's a fact.Alauddin consulted the ulema only twice on matters of religion during his whole reign as to making decisions based on religius rules and here's how it went.
The chief religious head with folded hands shivering said - 'Your majesty if i tell the truth u will surely take my head'.Only at this hilarious situation did alauddin reassure him and allow him to tell his piece.Alauddin ruled neither with support from populace,ulema or nobility.But with the power of his army,which was the largest standing army in medieval india till akbar.Since he was not dependant on any,he didn't give a shit about any.
Peasnats were taxed an atrocious half of their produce-hindu and muslim,So u think only the hindu section of masses were impoverished.Lol.
And this quote actually applies mostly to the previously rich khuts and muqaddams or village headmen ,previously who were exempt but now had to pay their share .
Market control applied to everybody.It kept goods cheap and this was a good side for common people and its foremost aim -to maintain his massive standing army was achieved.
As for conversion,well we have already seen in kafur's case what a great precedent that set.

Did I say that religious scholars had it all their way under Alauddin ?? No I did not .
And its not what I think , it is what the historians have written , You may be disappointed but historians other than Barni also have mentioned his harshness towards Hindus . And I did not say Muslims were rich , I said they were given much preference over the Hindus unlike what you claimed and I quoted references for that . Not my personal opinion bro.
And Kafur`s case may annoy the Hindus more than Muslims . So better not discuss it .
The people of North West India saved the Indians from the Mongol invasions and defeated them when no one else in the world could . And Alauddin Khilji should be remembered as a savior ..
Anyways it all history now , good or bad , Muslims from Afghanistan and central Asia ruled India for one thousand years and now here we are in 21st century , Independent Pakistan and Independent India . Instead of keeping past animosities in heart , we should look forward to a friendly future

@scorpionx can you plz edit the title of the thread and make it Mongol conquest of Europe and invasion of India , as most of the posts here are about Mongol invasion of India

 

[scorpionx]

@scorpionx can you plz edit the title of the thread and make it Mongol conquest of Europe and invasion of India , as most of the posts here are about Mongol invasion of India

I can not edit the title,my friend. The arrow had long been released.

 

[victor07]

Hungary: The final phase

Who stopped them?

With the capture of a mysterious Englishman by the Hapsburg troops, the penetration of Mongols into Europe came to an end.They had followed the grass steppes across central Asia,Russia,Ukraine, Poland and Hungary.
1. But where the pasture ended,the Mongols stopped. With five horses per warrior,they needed that pasture to function. Their marked advantages of speed,mobility,and surprise were all lost when they had to pick their way through forests,rivers and ploughed fields with corps and ditches, hedges, and wooden fences. The soft furrows of the peasant’s fields began also offered an insecure foothold for the horses.
2. The place where field began also marked the transition from the dry steppe to the humid climate of the coastal zones,where the dampness caused the Mongol bows to lose strength and accuracy.
3. In the early months of 1242, the Mongols went back to their stronghold in Russia, without materializing the full scale onslaught of Western Europe. With the start of struggle among the Mongol lineages,the rest of the world would be safe for another decade from Mongol invasion.

Courtesy: Genghis Khan and the making of the modern world by Jack Weatherford
@AUSTERLITZ

Your valuable inputs are urgently needed here.

Some remarks.
1. What about China? It also has no pastures. It has a lot of rivers, fields with crops and ditches, hedges, and wooden fences. But Mongols took China. And central and northern Russ (Russia is the name since 18th century) was also covered by forests.
2. Again about China. It has humid climate.
So what stopped Mongols in reality?
3. Where exactly on your opinion was the stronghold of Mongols situated in Russia (I think you mean Russ)?

 

[atatwolf]

The biggest empire of the world was built by Turco mongols but unfortunately they were lesser administrators. After Genghis khan death his Empire fragmented in Turkic and Mongol states.

 

[Targon]

victor, I know that guy in your profile picture I'm learning Russian, our teacher made us watch it, do you know any Russian sites that I can watch episodes of it ?

 

[scorpionx]

Some remarks.
1. What about China? It also has no pastures. It has a lot of rivers, fields with crops and ditches, hedges, and wooden fences. But Mongols took China. And central and northern Russ (Russia is the name since 18th century) was also covered by forests.
2. Again about China. It has humid climate.
So what stopped Mongols in reality?
3. Where exactly on your opinion was the stronghold of Mongols situated in Russia (I think you mean Russ)?

1. The series of the Chinese campaigns of the Mongols had one thing in common,the Mongol uneasiness with the humid climate. As a brilliant military tactician, Genghis Khan's preparation to invade the Jurched was flawless. But what he could not fight is the unpleasant climate. The Mongols and their horses repeatedly fall sick due to the heat and unbearable humidity. The campaign was halted in summer and a large contingent of the cavalry had to send back to the cooler grasslands of Inner Mongolia. Unlike his successors, the great Khan did not intend to overrule the Jurched. He was more keen to control the silk route all his lifetime.So he decided to return after defeating the enemy but not before destroying their farmlands,in case his soldiers had to return in near future. His successors faced the same fate and his most able grand son Mongke was reported to lose his life during his campaign against the Sung,not by the enemy swords but the harsh climate.

2. The Mongols had little experience in fighting in dense forests where they had to move in narrow trails. During his campaign in the South against the Jurched, the Siberian tribe in the north,under the rule of queen Botohui-Tarhun, challenged Genghis' command. Initially,they defeated the Mongols in perfect jungle warfare. Again his shortcomings in this new kind of warfare were overcame by Genghis' brilliant aptitude as a military commander. A small detachment of his soldiers worked as a decoy,while a large number of forces secretly cut a new road from a completely different direction. In the end,their lightning stoop on the enemy is described in the secret history as "through the top of the smoke holes of their tents."

3. The political climate of Russ and the large grassland for their hordes were the two vital factors for the Mongols to stay in this region.

 

[victor07]

victor, I know that guy in your profile picture I'm learning Russian, our teacher made us watch it, do you know any Russian sites that I can watch episodes of it ?

An author of drawing which I use as profile picture is Andrey Kuznetsov. The drawing is a part of a serie representing famous Soviet and Russian cartoon characters Crocodile Gena, Cheburashka and Shapoklyak as characters of different famous paintings and movies.
Some other subjects are listed here http://чукалов.рф/notepad/0017.html
Picture on my profile represents Gena as investigator of Moscow criminal police Gleb Zheglov, and Shapoklyak as Manya Obligatsiya (Mary the Bond), closely tied with Moscow criminal circles. They are characters of the film ¨The Meeting Place Cannot Be Changed¨(Место встречи изменить нельзя). All movies can be found on youtube by means of google.
Wish you good luck in studying language!

 

[victor07]

1. The series of the Chinese campaigns of the Mongols had one thing in common,the Mongol uneasiness with the humid climate. As a brilliant military tactician, Genghis Khan's preparation to invade the Jurched was flawless. But what he could not fight is the unpleasant climate. The Mongols and their horses repeatedly fall sick due to the heat and unbearable humidity. The campaign was halted in summer and a large contingent of the cavalry had to send back to the cooler grasslands of Inner Mongolia. Unlike his successors, the great Khan did not intend to overrule the Jurched. He was more keen to control the silk route all his lifetime.So he decided to return after defeating the enemy but not before destroying their farmlands,in case his soldiers had to return in near future. His successors faced the same fate and his most able grand son Mongke was reported to lose his life during his campaign against the Sung,not by the enemy swords but the harsh climate.
2. The Mongols had little experience in fighting in dense forests where they had to move in narrow trails. During his campaign in the South against the Jurched, the Siberian tribe in the north,under the rule of queen Botohui-Tarhun, challenged Genghis' command. Initially,they defeated the Mongols in perfect jungle warfare. Again his shortcomings in this new kind of warfare were overcame by Genghis' brilliant aptitude as a military commander. A small detachment of his soldiers worked as a decoy,while a large number of forces secretly cut a new road from a completely different direction. In the end,their lightning stoop on the enemy is described in the secret history as "through the top of the smoke holes of their tents."
3. The political climate of Russ and the large grassland for their hordes were the two vital factors for the Mongols to stay in this region.

Thanks for comprehensive answer but
On my humble opinion that is not correct. In reality further Mongol movement to Europe was stopped due to internal political crisis in Mongolia itself. The crisis was caused by the death in 1241 of Khan Ogedei who was an official successor to Genghis Khan. The crisis was resolved but Mongol empire was devided to several parts with some reduction of its territory. Military expeditions to the west was no longer taken. In 1266 Western part of the empire became independent in a form of Golden Horde. The capital of Golden Horde was Saray on River Volga. Russ remain dependent from Golden Horde but was not a part of it. There was no any mongolian strongholds in Russ.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

lim noble family.And

Did I say that religious scholars had it all their way under Alauddin ?? No I did not .
And its not what I think , it is what the historians have written , You may be disappointed but historians other than Barni also have mentioned his harshness towards Hindus . And I did not say Muslims were rich , I said they were given much preference over the Hindus unlike what you claimed and I quoted references for that . Not my personal opinion bro.
And Kafur`s case may annoy the Hindus more than Muslims . So better not discuss it .
The people of North West India saved the Indians from the Mongol invasions and defeated them when no one else in the world could . And Alauddin Khilji should be remembered as a savior ..
Anyways it all history now , good or bad , Muslims from Afghanistan and central Asia ruled India for one thousand years and now here we are in 21st century , Independent Pakistan and Independent India . Instead of keeping past animosities in heart , we should look forward to a friendly future

@scorpionx can you plz edit the title of the thread and make it Mongol conquest of Europe and invasion of India , as most of the posts here are about Mongol invasion of India

Yes i accept there was discrimination,which was present during the whole period save maybe akbar's reign.Point is aluddin didn't invent it,.or make any extra super effort to to do it either.His southern expeditions were for booty.
As for kafur what is there to discuss.
People of north west india also include people from current n-w india,not just areas of pakistan.I do like alauddin for his defense of the subcontinent.But this point that no one else could is patent falsehood.Mongols have been halted at several places.Mamelukes in egypt,samurai and storms in japan,vietnamese in the jungles.And he faced only a faction of the previous mongol juggernaut,not the whole centralized horde that russia,china and the middle east faced under a single leader.
500 yrs really and mostly confined to north of the vindhyas.Agreed on second part.