Mongol conquest of Europe;A short glimpse

[Desert Fox]

Resistance doesn't mean success.

As @Azlan Haider pointed out, the Armies of Alauddin Khilji defeated the Mongols from invading the rest of india, and thus the mongols never made another attempt after their final expedition was defeated in 1308 A.D. There, success.

Resistance doesn't mean subjugation or submission either. And continued resistance eventually strains the occupying force and never makes it easy for the occupier to maintain his presence and eventually forces him to withdraw.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

So you want to say that the half million army of Alauddin Khilji were all turks ??



So you want to say that the half million army of Alauddin Khilji were all turks ????



So you want to say that the half million army of Alauddin Khilji were all turks ????

Obviously not.But all generals and officers were for the most part.
If u want to speak of the general army then it will include men from the subcontinent including hindus.The elephant corps mahouts that played a crucial role,plus khanda foot infantry.[bhoomis]
The elite of alauddin's armies would have been turkish ghulam mailed lancers,turkic armoured horse archers.These would be supplemented by pashtun/baluch tribal foot soldiers and light cavalry.
The bowmen would be both indian longbowmen and turkish archers.

 

[Desert Fox]

Well I agreed with your assessment anyway.



The mongols were the worst of invaders because they didn't just destroy everything but also obliterated entire populations on a whim, India never faced an invader like the Mongols. The Turks armies were made up of Muslims, the administration may have been all Turk but you cannot say all their soldiers were Turks as well.

In fact, most of their soldiers were made up of Persians, Afghans (Pashtuns, Tajiks, etc), Turkics, Punjabis, Balochis, etc all of which make up majority of modern day Pakistanis.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

As @Azlan Haider pointed out, the Armies of Alauddin Khilji defeated the Mongols from invading the rest of india, and thus the mongols never made another attempt after their final expedition was defeated in 1308 A.D. There, success.

Resistance doesn't mean subjugation or submission either. And continued resistance eventually strains the occupying force and never makes it easy for the occupier to maintain his presence and eventually forces him to withdraw.

What are u talking about?Delhi sultanate defeating mongols [only a faction of the previous mongol empire to be precise] hasn't to do with afghanistan.Did delhi sultanate conquer afghanistan from mongols.Chagatai and later timurids dominated it.The hazara people in pakistan and afghanistan are of mongolian descent are proof of this.

 

[Desert Fox]

What are u talking about?Delhi sultanate defeating mongols [only a faction of the previous mongol empire to be precise] hasn't to do with afghanistan.Did delhi sultanate conquer afghanistan from mongols.Chagatai and later timurids dominated it.The hazara people in pakistan and afghanistan are of mongolian descent are proof of this.

I never stated that Delhi Sultanate was a part of Afghanistan. I merely linked to you two posts depicting two historical events in which mongols were defeated, one by Delhi Sultanate of Alauudin Khilji and another by the Pashtuns with an alliance with fleeing Persian and Turkic soldiers. In the later incident the Mongol army was destroyed.

Either way, my main point being, it was Muslims who first defeated the mongol at their height. Not sure how hindus would have handled it had the mongols defeated the Muslim rulers of NW india.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Obviously not.But all generals and officers were for the most part.

The Famous Malik Kafur , the head general in army of Alauddin Khilji was a ethnic Indian . In 1305 Kafur defeated the Mongols at the Battle of Amroha . Malik was a great military genius. He accomplished what no Muslim before him had been able to do. He also was the person who paved the way for the further permanent conquest of the Deccan by the Muslims.

Also Zafar Khan was the Muslim Indian general of Alauddin Khilji . Zafar Khan holds the honour of being one of the few undefeated military commanders in history.Zafar Khan defeated an invading Mongol army near Jalandhar in 1297 which secured Alauddin Khilji's throne.In 1299, a horde of 200,000 Mongols entered India with the intention of conquest. Though vastly outnumbered, Zafar Khan showed desperate valor in battle. The Mongols were defeated, but Khan did not survive.

If u want to speak of the general army then it will include men from the subcontinent including hindus

There may have been a few hindus in his army as well . Alauddin`s army was well documented , with `huliya` of every soldier also recorded along with other details . `Diwan e Arz` kept record of all of them . Not sure if it has been preserved

.The hazara people in pakistan and afghanistan are of mongolian descent are proof of this.

The Hazara People of Afghanistan are a mixed group . Most probably of Kushan descent who later mixed with mongols

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thank you. I will be waiting for your thread on Mohi and Liegnitz. By the way,Hydaspes and Bltzkreig are my favourite too. I remember @Joe Shearer sir once posted a thread on Battle of Hydaspes. That was a great thread to read.

The Battle of the Hydaspes: A Mystery in the Mists of Time

Parts of my comments were based on a paper (since lost) presented by my father to a learned gathering of members of the Asiatic Society at the Calcutta Museum.

 

[scorpionx]

Parts of my comments were based on a paper (since lost) presented by my father to a learned gathering of members of the Asiatic Society at the Calcutta Museum.

That is really great to know,sir. Please share this kind of papers with us if you get time . Lots of hungry and thirsty people keep waiting here on the other side of the screen for these precious articles. (Particularly, when the quality of the forum is not in its zenith.)

 

[Chronos]

That is really great to know,sir. Please share this kind of papers with us if you get time . Lots of hungry and thirsty people keep waiting here on the other side of the screen for these precious articles. (Particularly, when the quality of the forum is not in its zenith.)

You just can't help but take potshots can you.

Also, what I find shocking is the Mongols utter detruction of Baghdad, then considered one of the world's nerve centers for science, learning and culture.

A historian called it the vengeance of the nomads against the settled people throughout history.

 

[scorpionx]

You just can't help but take potshots can you.

Also, what I find shocking is the Mongols utter detruction of Baghdad, then considered one of the world's nerve centers for science, learning and culture.

A historian called it the vengeance of the nomads against the settled people throughout history.

This is true. But at the same time these fierce steppe warriors worked like blood cells of the history of civilization. That's a very different aspect. Also,their administrative reforms,started by Temujhin and later mastered by Kublai Khan deserve severe reading and analysis.

Its sad that I didn't chose History as my career,when I had chances. Now tying to do a little bit of prayaschitt.

 

[Chronos]

This is true. But at the same time these fierce steppe warriors worked like blood cells of the history of civilization. That's a very different aspect. Also,their administrative reforms,started by Temujhin and later mastered by Kublai Khan deserve severe reading and analysis.

Its sad that I didn't chose History as my career,when I had chances. Now tying to do a little bit of prayaschitt.

Personally, I find kublai more fascinating than his ancestor Genghis.

 

[scorpionx]

Personally, I find kublai more fascinating than his ancestor Genghis.

Ghenghis, is an interesting character. If you read his family history,it beats any fictional character.I mean the kidnapping of his newly married mother on her way to the Merkid in laws, the way she saved her husband, the son born with a blood clot in hand, an anxious husband trying to find his beloved Borte among the enemy camp followers...Just fascinating.

 

[Chronos]

Ghenghis, is an interesting character. If you read his family history,it beats any fictional character.I mean the kidnapping of his newly married mother on her way to the Merkid in laws, the way she saved her husband, the son born with a blood clot in hand, an anxious husband trying to find his beloved Borte among the enemy camp followers...Just fascinating.

My newest obsession is with rationalist philosophers in olden times.

Like Al Rawandi. In a sense, Buddha. Then you have Voltaire (recent).

I am fascinated because belief in ghosts, god, demons were stronger than ever.

I often wonder how these ancient and medieval philosophers could go against the grain of society. Because they not only faced persecution from the authorities, but also it meant loosing your friends, family etc.

Oh and i see that Islamic imperialists have arrived on cue =D

 

[scorpionx]

My newest obsession is with rationalist philosophers in olden times.

Like Al Rawandi. In a sense, Buddha. Then you have Voltaire (recent).

I am fascinated because belief in ghosts, god, demons were stronger than ever.

I often wonder how these ancient and medieval philosophers could go against the grain of society. Because they not only faced persecution from the authorities, but also it meant loosing your friends, family etc.

Oh and i see that Islamic imperialists have arrived on cue =D

Well,that's quite interesting subject to be honest. I have very little idea about this. If I start, I will start with Socrates though.

And Islamic Imperialism is a ghost,always haunting here and there.Can't help.

 

[Chronos]

Well,that's quite interesting subject to be honest. I have very little idea about this. If I start, I will start with Socrates though.

And Islamic Imperialism is a ghost,always haunting here and there.Can't help.

Socrates still believed in gods or god. But the lesson he brought forth was questioning authority. He was ridiculed at the time, including Aristophanes who thought the philosophers were nothing but bums who broke down family values and usurped society (see a running theme here?)

In my opinion, Mahavira and Buddha were necessary as rationalist critics of highly ritualistic practices. To Ancient India's credit, they were not persecuted highly for their beliefs, remarkably their views were heard and entertained by even powerful figures. The same level of tolerance would not be found in India to day I think.

Voltaire, a renaissance era philosopher, ridiculed the concept of Adam and Eve, implying in one of his stories the implications we would all be first cousins of each other then.

Yesterday's radical is today's moderate and tomorrow's relic. (I made that up )