What's new

Modi went to the G20 summit, and he saw this!

Very true. The Chinese do not have Indians' colonial mentality. Many Indians still subconsciously have an inferiority complex toward the West. It's a shame Indians are not more proud of their country and civilization.
Well, they chose the one the west goes and are proud of it, not my concern.....:rolleyes:
We go our own way, regardless others' jealousy and invective.

We are now rebuilding our ancient cities.
 
.
Well, they chose the one the west goes and are proud of it, not my concern.....:rolleyes:
We go our own way, regardless others' jealousy and invective.

We are now rebuilding our ancient cities.


Meanwhile, Mumbai is still trying to be better than Shanghai by who knows when. Let's just hope Modi-'s Clean India campaign doesn't turn out to be another marketing gimmick.
 
.
Meanwhile, Mumbai is still trying to be better than Shanghai by who knows when. Let's just hope Modi-'s Clean India campaign doesn't turn out to be another marketing gimmick.
I think Mumbai does need some concrete plan.
If it really wants some long-term plan, should elaborate what should be done in the first 5 years, then what should be done in the second 5 year.....At the end of the 5 year, goals should be assessed, if not fulfilled, mayors should be responsible....

I don't know if in a democracy, an elected leader should be responsible for his/her promises in the election or not...
Do his/her voters tolerate?

Here, if the mayor of my city fails annual assessment on a specific goal for example forestation rate or construction of a specific number of apartments for the poor ...he will be warned...if warned to many times, he will get sacked and demoted....

The former mayor of this city is in jail now because of corruption.
 
Last edited:
.
I think Mumbai does need some concrete plan.
If it really wants some long-term plan, should elaborate what should be done in the first 5 years, then what should be done in the second 5 year.....At the end of the 5 year, goals should be assessed, if not fulfilled, mayors should be responsible....

I don't know if in a democracy, an elected leader should be responsible for his/her promises in the election or not...
Are his/her voters tolerate?

Here, if the mayor of my city fails annal assessment on a specific goal for example forestation rate or construction of a specific number of apartments for the poor ...he will be warned...if warned to many times, he will get sacked and demoted....

The former mayor of this city is in jail now because of corruption.


Indian leaders are looting the country because that's what the people want them to do.
 
.
Last edited:
.
Shouldn't it be the case that they vote out incompetent and corrupt local mayors and governors?

Former mayor of this Panxian County got jailed because of his cousin got involved in the public project
1.3 million yuan = 10 years
http://www.gywb.cn/content/2014-05/07/content_724647.htm


Well, India hasn't learned the right lessons from the British. You see, Indians are doing a bad job at imitating democracy. They thought that if they put a few hundred corrupt idiots in a dome-shaped building and call it a parliament, India would become a democracy.

Indians still suffer from colonial mentality and inferiority complex. Funny thing is that they don't even know it.

Are you familiar with the term cargo cult? Indian democracy is just like a cargo cult.

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/貨物崇拜

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

http://tinyurl.com/h2zq5kj

http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/a-cargo-cult-democracy-113053101161_1.html

A cargo cult democracy
India needs to think about how First World democracies deliver the things their constitutions promise. Simply copy-pasting the forms isn't enough
One of the sideshows of World War II was the development of cargo cults on Pacific islands. As the Japanese fought the Americans, both sides set up bases and employed locals. Understandably, the locals, many of whom were just one step away from the Stone Age, thought these strangers with their incredible equipment and strange powers, were Gods.

The interactions abruptly exposed locals to two millennia worth of technological advance. The locals received manna in the form of clothing, medicine, canned food, tents, weapons, and so on. When the war ended, so did the freebies.


The cargo cults then started. The idea was to imitate the activities of the "Gods", who had delivered these things, in the hopes this would miraculously result in a resumption of supplies. The islanders piled up empty cans, put on discarded uniforms and held ceremonial marches. They sat in derelict control towers and muttered prayers into broken radios. They signalled to the empty skies and seas with tattered flags. They built airplanes out of wood and worshipped those.

India was a far more sophisticated culture, of course, when regular interactions with Westerners started. But in many ways India is also a cargo cult. We imitate the outward forms of democracy and governance in the hopes that this will miraculously catapult the nation to First World status.

India has the world's longest constitution, guaranteeing various basic rights like religious freedom, equality under the law, etc. It has a formal legal system to safeguard those rights. It has universal franchise. It has a multitude of political parties and regular elections by secret ballot.

Yet, in 65 years, desi democracy has been incapable of delivering the basics of law and order and social equity, let alone widespread access to roti, kapda, makaan, bijli, sadak, paani. A quarter of the population is illiterate; a third lives on less than Rs 32 day. Infant mortality is horrifying, gender ratios are appalling.

There are a multitude of insurgences across the Northeast, in Kashmir, and in left-wing-extremism affected states. Torture, encounter killings, and disappearances into mass graves are standard ways for the state machinery to combat those insurgencies. Honour killings, dowry deaths, rapes, and intra-caste/inter-religious violence are so common that such incidents are often not considered newsworthy. Freedom of speech is routinely curtailed and privacy as routinely violated.

No political party has a consistent governance record. None articulates coherent policy, let alone attempts to implement it. Every party shelters criminals and most have leaders with outstanding criminal cases. Almost every successful politician does his or her best to ensure dynastic succession.

Should India have adopted a different system? That doesn't follow. Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and the Myanmarese have suffered even more trauma and have even less right to redressal. Indonesia slaughtered half a million in anti-Communist purges. Malaysia favours its majority.

But consider China - the poster-boy for non-democratic governance. China has 4x India's GDP and much better quality of life indicators. However, tens of millions, maybe up to a 100 million, starved to death in the famine of 1958-1962. There was the Cultural Revolution and of course, there was Tiananmen. If India had similarly eliminated the bottom two deciles of its population in the 1960s, the residue might, by now, have had matching per-capita indicators.

Even cargo cult democracy might trump alternative formats, if history is any indicator. But it's time to understand that democracy is not about concepts written on paper; it is about delivering tangible governance to certain standards and that requires understanding how democracies actually work.

The cargo cults only saw the outward manifestations of technology; they had no clue about the enormous effort that goes to create a technologically advanced society. By analogy. India needs to think about how First World democracies actually deliver the things that their constitutions promise. Simply copy-pasting the forms will never be enough.
 
Last edited:
.
Well, India hasn't learned the right lessons from the British. You see, Indians are doing a bad job at imitating democracy. They thought that if they put a few hundred corrupt idiots in a dome-shaped building and call it a parliament, India would become a democracy.

Indians still suffer from colonial mentality and inferiority complex. Funny thing is that they don't even know it.

Are you familiar with the term cargo cult? Indian democracy is just like a cargo cult.

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/貨物崇拜

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

http://tinyurl.com/h2zq5kj

http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/a-cargo-cult-democracy-113053101161_1.html

A cargo cult democracy
India needs to think about how First World democracies deliver the things their constitutions promise. Simply copy-pasting the forms isn't enough
One of the sideshows of World War II was the development of cargo cults on Pacific islands. As the Japanese fought the Americans, both sides set up bases and employed locals. Understandably, the locals, many of whom were just one step away from the Stone Age, thought these strangers with their incredible equipment and strange powers, were Gods.

The interactions abruptly exposed locals to two millennia worth of technological advance. The locals received manna in the form of clothing, medicine, canned food, tents, weapons, and so on. When the war ended, so did the freebies.


The cargo cults then started. The idea was to imitate the activities of the "Gods", who had delivered these things, in the hopes this would miraculously result in a resumption of supplies. The islanders piled up empty cans, put on discarded uniforms and held ceremonial marches. They sat in derelict control towers and muttered prayers into broken radios. They signalled to the empty skies and seas with tattered flags. They built airplanes out of wood and worshipped those.

India was a far more sophisticated culture, of course, when regular interactions with Westerners started. But in many ways India is also a cargo cult. We imitate the outward forms of democracy and governance in the hopes that this will miraculously catapult the nation to First World status.

India has the world's longest constitution, guaranteeing various basic rights like religious freedom, equality under the law, etc. It has a formal legal system to safeguard those rights. It has universal franchise. It has a multitude of political parties and regular elections by secret ballot.

Yet, in 65 years, desi democracy has been incapable of delivering the basics of law and order and social equity, let alone widespread access to roti, kapda, makaan, bijli, sadak, paani. A quarter of the population is illiterate; a third lives on less than Rs 32 day. Infant mortality is horrifying, gender ratios are appalling.

There are a multitude of insurgences across the Northeast, in Kashmir, and in left-wing-extremism affected states. Torture, encounter killings, and disappearances into mass graves are standard ways for the state machinery to combat those insurgencies. Honour killings, dowry deaths, rapes, and intra-caste/inter-religious violence are so common that such incidents are often not considered newsworthy. Freedom of speech is routinely curtailed and privacy as routinely violated.

No political party has a consistent governance record. None articulates coherent policy, let alone attempts to implement it. Every party shelters criminals and most have leaders with outstanding criminal cases. Almost every successful politician does his or her best to ensure dynastic succession.

Should India have adopted a different system? That doesn't follow. Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and the Myanmarese have suffered even more trauma and have even less right to redressal. Indonesia slaughtered half a million in anti-Communist purges. Malaysia favours its majority.

But consider China - the poster-boy for non-democratic governance. China has 4x India's GDP and much better quality of life indicators. However, tens of millions, maybe up to a 100 million, starved to death in the famine of 1958-1962. There was the Cultural Revolution and of course, there was Tiananmen. If India had similarly eliminated the bottom two deciles of its population in the 1960s, the residue might, by now, have had matching per-capita indicators.

Even cargo cult democracy might trump alternative formats, if history is any indicator. But it's time to understand that democracy is not about concepts written on paper; it is about delivering tangible governance to certain standards and that requires understanding how democracies actually work.

The cargo cults only saw the outward manifestations of technology; they had no clue about the enormous effort that goes to create a technologically advanced society. By analogy. India needs to think about how First World democracies actually deliver the things that their constitutions promise. Simply copy-pasting the forms will never be enough.
First time hear about Cargo Cult :o:
 
.
Cargo Cult is a funny phenomenon. It usually happens when a primitive society interacts with an advanced one, resulting in the primitive society imitating the form of the advanced one without understanding its substance. This is what Indian democracy is. It's a very bad imitation. It's not even a cheap copy.
Then demoncrazy it is...
 
.
And dirty places in Singapore as well, but I see many Indians here and many many more are trying to get here. Not to mention the many dirty places in America, but still many Indians aspire to immigrate to America.

It seems to me that many Indians simply prefer dirty places in America and Singapore over India.


I live in NYC, world-class, most important city not just in America but worldwide. I also traveled to many countries like England, Holland, Germany, Swiss, dubai, Italy, France, Tokyo, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Singapore, Shanghai and more. These are most advanced economy of the world. There is not a single country or city that's not dirty. I repeat, not a single country. So why don't you worry about your OWN country and stop ur cheerleading 4 chinese, you false flagged.

Cargo Cult is a funny phenomenon. It usually happens when a primitive society interacts with an advanced one, resulting in the primitive society imitating the form of the advanced one without understanding its substance. This is what Indian democracy is. It's a very bad imitation. It's not even a cheap copy.


Congratulations.....u just described china. Copy -N- paste country of the world.



Why don't we watch this "uncensored china" together???? :azn::azn:
 
.
I live in NYC, world-class, most important city not just in America but worldwide. I also traveled to many countries like England, Holland, Germany, Swiss, dubai, Italy, France, Tokyo, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Singapore, Shanghai and more. These are most advanced economy of the world. There is not a single country or city that's not dirty. I repeat, not a single country. So why don't you worry about your OWN country and stop ur cheerleading 4 chinese, you false flagged.




Congratulations.....u just described china. Copy -N- paste country of the world.



Why don't we watch this "uncensored china" together???? :azn::azn:


Yes, every city in the world is dirty. But are they dirty like India? Indian cities are uniquely dirty. They aren't just dirty; they are absolutely filthy.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/nyt-...t-delhi-literally-shithole-india-2272904.html

NYT writer is absolutely right: Delhi is literally a shithole; but so is all of India
G Pramod Kumar
In his 1960 exploration of eastern mysticism, The Lotus and the Robot, Arthur Koestler compared the smell of Bombay to that of “a wet smelly diaper” wrapped around his head. Four years later, VS Naipaul was so revulsed about the filth in India that he wrote in an Area of Darkness that “Indians defecate everywhere” - beside the railway tracks, on the beaches, on the hills, on the riverbanks and on the streets. “They never look for cover,” he said with absolute disgust.

India was smarter than Koestler and Naipaul — it promptly banned both the books.


Representational image. Reuters

When the South Asia correspondent of New York Times, Gardiner Harris, wrote on 29 May (Holding Your Breath in India) — that Delhi is an unliveable place because of pollution and that he left the city to safeguard his son’s health, the outrage was similar. There was no possibility of banning an article on the Internet, but angry Indians took to social media and slammed Harris for being an elitist expat. Some said while he was over-protective over his child, he had scant regard for the Indian children in Delhi who had no option but to live there, little realising that his voice was that of a frustrated father, who doesn’t have to put his family through the perils of living in a dirty city.

Harris wrote: “Foreigners have lived in Delhi for centuries, of course, but the air and the mounting research into its effects have become so frightening that some feel it is unethical for those who have a choice to willingly raise children here. Similar discussions are doubtless underway in Beijing and other Asian megacities, but it is in Delhi — among the most populous, polluted, unsanitary and bacterially unsafe cities on earth — where the new calculus seems most urgent.”

He hits where it hurts. The capital of a super power aspirant, a country which is projected to become the world’s third biggest economy in 2020, has been described as “among the most populous, polluted, unsanitary and bacterially unsafe cities on earth”. He also goes on to add that out of the 25 worst polluted cities in the world, 13 are in India.

It’s remarkable that even after 50 years since Koestler and Naipaul refused to hold back their revulsion to the all-pervading filth in India, it still remains a humiliating truth that visitors find out the moment they set their foot in the country.

In his recent overseas tour, Prime Minister Narendra Modi claimed that earlier Indians felt ashamed of being born in India, but now they feel proud. Do they? His point was political. He thought that the change of government in India makes its people proud. But in reality, Indians should still be ashamed because outsiders find their country too filthy to live in; the filth that has permeated every state of matter — solid, liquid, gas and perhaps even plasma. It doesn’t befit a modern nation that’s apparently raring to go.

What Koestler and Naipaul wrote in the sixties and what Harris wrote in 2015 are not anecdotal, but are borne out by facts. According to WHO, India accounts for 90 percent of open defecation in South Asia and 59 percent of the practice in the world. It also accounts for more than twice the number of open defecations of the 18 countries that come after it in the WHO list.

WHO also says that close to 100 million Indians don’t have access to improved sources of water, which is not surprising because our waterways are filled with filth. According to Central Pollution Control Board’s (CPCB) 2011-12 annual report, about 60 percent of India’s water-sources (which are routinely monitored) have poor “bio-chemical oxygen demand”, an indicator of organic pollution, and about 68 percent have faecal coliform — bacteria from shit.

In other words, more than 60 percent of our water sources are polluted with organic waste and faecal matter. This happens because untreated sewage, faeces and other organic wastes are led into rivers and ponds that Indians draw their water from. Industrial waste and toxic substances that are dumped into them on an hourly basis make them lethal. All major Indian rivers are polluted by industrial effluents and untreated sewage. In its report, the Pollution Control Board even specifically mentions how under-capacity sewage treatment plants let out raw filth into the rivers at various places.

In terms of air quality, the principal concern of Harris in Delhi, 79 percent of metropolitan cities have very high levels of particulate matter and nitrogen dioxide, both of which are the main causes of air pollution. Among the four metros, the presence of particulate matter in Delhi is a well-known story and is obviously rising compared to others. But Delhi is not alone, many other cities, including small towns are asphyxiating in their own emissions.

Delhiites can be peeved because Harris picked on their city while the rest of urban India is no different. It’s only a matter of degree of criticality (air pollution levels are classified as low, medium, hight and critical). The fact of the matter is that urban India is rotting and is sinking in its own filth.

Can the Prime Minister’s boutique project of “Swatch Bharat” change this?

Absolutely not, because the socio-economic determinants of this environmental degradation are far deeper than what’s apparent. With more than 42 percent of its population living in 53 cities, India’s urbanisation is so skewed that it’s hard to provide a matching civic infrastructure and therefore untreated sewage will continue to flow into rivers, lakes, and open places. If the agriculture and rural employment continue to fail, it will get worse.

Without stopping open defecation, the spread of coliform and other parasites cannot be stopped. Without cracking down on crony-capitalists, including big corporates, the dumping of effluents into rivers and toxic gases into air will not stop. Without providing reliable public transport, the ambient air can never get clean.

And more importantly, all these are to be handled at the local level by the state governments and local bodies. Given the pathetic standards of governance and political priorities in some states, it’s a daunting task.

In the end, India’s filth is a metaphor for its overall ills that include poverty, inequality, castes, corruption, poor development policies and greed. It’s not a question of aesthetics, but a question of fundamental social change.
 
Last edited:
.
When will India have a city as clean and developed as this? What do our Indian members think? Will it be 5 years, 10 years, 20 years?




Apart from your typical rant, fact is most of Indian respect the rise of China becuase they have done all the hardwork to reach to this point...China is a cultural country, Indian in general do not have any animosity toward people and culture of Chines....So do not exepct that we will get upset or we will be trolling with -ve comments when we see anything good in a development side of China..

Our with China is always political...See...who are closest friend of China...North Korea and Pakistan...I do not want to explain more about both the nations..Its your country and your choice..And this is where we have difference in opition with China...

Again, good job with your hard work and development work...Keep it up...We are happy for you...

That's not what I said. Reread my comment please. But if you say Indians prefer filth over cleanliness, then won't disagree with you because you are the expert.




I agree, but still, seeing the city in person must have been a humbling experience for Modi and his delegation. China is a country that until 30 years ago was behind India.

Whenever you are in mood to have a rational discussion, you should have some sensible to argue...One country is developed does not mean, others are bad..World does not operate in a binary mode...
 
.
Apart from your typical rant, fact is most of Indian respect the rise of China becuase they have done all the hardwork to reach to this point...China is a cultural country, Indian in general do not have any animosity toward people and culture of Chines....So do not exepct that we will get upset or we will be trolling with -ve comments when we see anything good in a development side of China..

Our with China is always political...See...who are closest friend of China...North Korea and Pakistan...I do not want to explain more about both the nations..Its your country and your choice..And this is where we have difference in opition with China...

Again, good job with your hard work and development work...Keep it up...We are happy for you...



Whenever you are in mood to have a rational discussion, you should have some sensible to argue...One country is developed does not mean, others are bad..World does not operate in a binary mode...


You are not very good at staying on topic, are you?
 
. . . .

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom