Modi thrashes Dig Vijay Singh, a must watch

[Developereo]

You have made all the baseless claims in the thread. provide the stats, official sources of those claims. if you think whatever

The ONLY claim I have made in this thread was about police complicity in the Gujarat riots. I substantiated that claim with a link to the US report, which cited the GoI report(s) and testimony by various witnesses.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Developereo

Dude, look at West Bengal riots on 21st Feb 2013 when a Muslim cleric shot dead by unknown shooter resulted in Muslim Mob attacking Hindu region and torched 200 homes ans molested women. There was complete media black out, no news on ANY Major Media Outlet..

No arrest made yet. You know why ? There are Panchayat elections coming and current CM has been known to appease Muslims for their votes. She also stopped a train with illegal immigrants being sent back to Bangladesh and freed them. There is a significant population of illegal Bangladeshis living in WB.

She also sent back Salman Rushdie withot any previous notice, from the airport. Muslims vote in huge number to specific parties which ignore the crimes done by Muslims, Riots created by them and destruction of temples by them, whereas Hindu voters are divided between many parties. That's why Muslim vote bank is very important and Congress has used it for decades.

Now tell me, what you make of this ?

Congress never apologized for 1984 Sikh massacres where 3000 Sikhs were killed while Police were held back but in Gujarat around 800 Muslims were killed and Congress didn't allow its govt.s in nearby states to assist Gujarat govt. Gujarat is important for Congress as it is the only thing against Modi they can use. That's why they are still barking on this. Even Gujarati Muslims are fed up of this drama by Congress.

Got it ? I again ask you not to play these games. Try to understand the context. Indian Politics is whole other game. And if you don't want to understand it, and make these hypothetical scenarios, better don't comment on India.

You haven't posted any fact/statistics with links, all the important factors required to make a conclusion. You should back up with something substantial. Present stats and context and then we can debate. You are applying US political factors on India. It will give as idiotic conclusion as the methodology is.

Minorities in India especially is a Major Factor to come to power.

Hope you know about how research is done. Burden of proof is on you too.

Don't be so stern and prejudiced by the information you have been exposed to.

@KRAIT there is just no need for such history lessons. India needs to stop looking to the past and concentrate on the here and now and the future. I think too often I see people getting bogged down in past events and cannot move foreward because of it.


Whatever Congress is is irrelevant. India is not what it was and these so called vote bank politics will only get them so far. With the fastest growing middle class on earth Indian politicians have only a few more years at most to think they can get away with this vote bank ideology of racking up votes. Sooner or later the penny will drop that hey will actually have to get off their backsides and deliver results in order to win elections.

It may just seem Modi is ahead of the curve and is pandering to this ever growling electorate who want devlopment above almost all else.


As far as Modi is concerned I shall sit on the fence until 2015 probably.

 

[jbond197]

The ONLY claim I have made in this thread was about police complicity in the Gujarat riots. I substantiated that claim with a link to the US report, which cited the GoI report(s) and testimony by various witnesses.

You said this - It is also documented that Hindu officials used census data to guide mobs, escorted by police, to Muslim victims.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...dig-vijay-singh-must-watch.html#ixzz2LmpC6POC

Where is it documented that Hindu police officer used census data to guide mobs, escorted by police, to Muslim victims? Must in the Pakistani archives some where!!

 

[KRAIT]

Did I mention how much I am enjoying your little dance of desperation?
YOU made the claim that Muslim men are treated more leniently than Hindus by the Indian legal system.
I did not make any claims, nor am I here to defend Congress. I simply asked you to provide statistics proving your claim.
Got it?YOU made the claim; YOU prove it.I am still waiting...

Dude, I said Politicians and corrupt Police, not entire Indian legal system. Don't change the words. I proved it by this example which you intentionally ignored.

I presented the perfect case of WB riots. Why did you ignore that ? Tell me do you know about these 200 houses torched, women molested and temple idols destroyed. Do you want me to post pics here.

Second, You said that Muslims in India are jailed because of no reason. You made the allegation. You have to prove it.

Tell me one thing, if Hindus are in majority then Hindus should be majority in Prison population ? Aren't Muslims criminals in Pakistan ?

Are you drawing comparison India with Pakistan ? Since 97 % of population in Pakistan is Muslims so they are majority in Prison, so Hindus who are 81% are Hindus are in India, they should be prisoners' majority ?

Dude, read Research Journals with papers that derives Crime rate and Prisoner Population dependent on Economic conditions, Education, existing Criminal/violent Neighborhood and Unemployment in the region.

I already told about economic condition, education and employment rate of Muslims in India.

If you can't I can provide that too. Dozens of references. I don't know why you are ignoring Basic Factors for Crimes.

Talk with Logic, Stats, Facts, backing from research journals, not same old rhetoric.

Crime Distribution in 4 states of India with % of Non-Hindu Prisoners

http://bengal.missouri.edu/~sharmag/G_Sharma_April2011_Crime.pdf

Go to Page 33.

SO crime rate and prison population is dependent on factors you haven't mentioned nor taken into account, except population and % of Muslim prisoners.

 

[KRAIT]

@jbond197 I have given the proofs and I can explain more on Social Crimes in a Population with Mathematical Models, Data Fitting and Analysis, Survey Reports.

I have provided one paper already.

I have explained the dynamics of Social Crimes and Terrorism multiple times in the past.

 

[Developereo]

You said this - It is also documented that Hindu officials used census data to guide mobs, escorted by police, to Muslim victims.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...dig-vijay-singh-must-watch.html#ixzz2LmpC6POC

Where is it documented that Hindu police officer used census data to guide mobs, escorted by police, to Muslim victims? Must in the Pakistani archives some where!!

Read the full document.

Dude, I said Politicians and corrupt Police, not entire Indian legal system. Don't change the words. I proved it by this example which you intentionally ignored.

And police are part of the legal (as in criminal justice) system so I am not changing any words.

Once again, I never denied that Muslims commit crimes. Show me where I said that.

The point is that you highlighted a perception that seems to be rampant amongst certain Hindus that Muslim criminals are running loose (more so than Hindu criminals). As you yourself wrote, this perception contributed to police conduct during the riots. Hence, it seems paramount that such false perceptions should be addressed to reduce mistrust between the communities. I know moderate Hindus are just as opposed to such mischievous rumor mongering as anyone else, so it's not just a Muslim thing.

 

[KRAIT]

@Abingdonboy I believe in the famous saying that those who don't learn from history are bound to relive it. That's why I use history to explain the conditions at that time and outcomes of the policies.

This is what Analysts have to do. Look at the data, collected for years and decades, consider change of socio-economic conditions and educational level of population to predict future pattern.

What you said about middle class and education is the exact reason why Modi is being re-elected by Gujarat population. The developmental work.

When I have to place a bet, I have to check the previous record of the candidate I will vote for.

So we are both on same path but our outlook is different. That's why I agree with you and also add my own factors for consideration.

 

[KRAIT]

Read the full document.



And police are part of the legal (as in criminal justice) system so I am not changing any words.

Once again, I never denied that Muslims commit crimes. Show me where I said that.

The point is that you highlighted a perception that seems to be rampant amongst certain Hindus that Muslim criminals are running loose (more so than Hindu criminals). As you yourself wrote, this perception contributed to police conduct during the riots. Hence, it seems paramount that such false perceptions should be addressed to reduce mistrust between the communities. I know moderate Hindus are just as opposed to such mischievous rumor mongering as anyone else, so it's not just a Muslim thing.

Dude, read that PDF and go to page number 33.

I said that Police who are love Congress played their part along with those Police who did it because of emotions.

Not everyday is like Riots for Police. Understand it

All you are giving is commentary with no proof to back your points. As for what is Muslim thing or not, of course its not normal and one can't generalize but you can't miss the basic factors that I mentioned and provided backing with research paper.

I gave my stats and facts, now its your turn.

 

[Developereo]

Dude, read that PDF and go to page number 33.

I saw your precious table; it is meaningless by itself without having the %age of non-Hindu population in each state as a backdrop. It also says nothing about apprehension rates, white collar crime and a host of other issues.

In short, it is an incomplete statistic by itself.

Not everyday is like Riots for Police. Understand it

But public perceptions are built up outside of riots during 'everyday' life. It is precisely during 'everyday' when false perceptions must be corrected; not wait until the riots are happening.

I gave my stats and facts, now its your turn.

Not even close.

Once again, what % of population is Muslim in each of those states?
What % of reported crimes had a Muslim suspect?
What % of those suspects were convicted? released?
And the same numbers for Hindus.

Remember, YOUR claim is that Muslims have it easy under the Indian criminal justice system. Let's see the full figures...

 

[jbond197]

Read the full document.

I read the link you provided and I could not find what ever claims you are making..

Also the kind of language is used in the report shows the biases of the ones who prepared it. I don't think even they got there facts right for all the allegations they are making in the report!!

@jbond197 I have given the proofs and I can explain more on Social Crimes in a Population with Mathematical Models, Data Fitting and Analysis, Survey Reports.

I have provided one paper already.

I have explained the dynamics of Social Crimes and Terrorism multiple times in the past.

But they will still not be sufficient to bring conspiracies to death!! More and more conspiracy inspired questions will keep coming your way!!

 

[Developereo]

I read the link you provided and I could not find what ever claims you are making..

It's in one of the ancillary reports.

India: Gujarat Officials Took Part in Anti-Muslim Violence | Human Rights Watch

The police were directly implicated in nearly all the attacks against Muslims that are documented in the 75-page report, 'We Have No Orders to Save You': State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat. In some cases they were merely passive observers. But in many instances, police officials led the charge of murderous mobs, aiming and firing at Muslims who got in the way.
[...]
They were guided by voter lists and printouts of addresses of Muslim-owned properties-information obtained from the local municipality.

Let me anticipate: these are all 'biased' reports...

 

[KRAIT]

@Developereo May be you know how to read the Tables and research papers.
Its the % of Non-Hindu Criminals.

May be you don't understand what is Riots and what is normal crimes.

You keep increasing your demands and I am not going to ive you all the details spending my time on google.

You missed the entire section of why Crimes are committed. The major factors that leads to crime.

So better research it yourself. I have given you links after links, a small portion of my knowledge in Research of Social Crimes.

Dude, how many times I have to tell you that these lists are generally taken from offices during riots. It happened in 1984 too. I already said that it was Congress favoring Policemen to cause damage the Modi govt., a BJP minister who took part in it and is convicted and Bajrang Dal Leader. Even I can go to a Municipality center and put a gun to their head and get the list. BTW workers of Municipality are also Humans, not machines. The riots were result of Hindu men, women and children burnt alive. Look at the history of Gujarat.

Human Rights Watch report is on Hearsay of people conversation with Policemen. There is no direct evidence of Modi involved in it. Supreme Court and SIT cleared him. Why you doubt Supreme Indian Judiciary that is, Supreme Court of India ?

You are biased with your so called obsession with Indian Muslim Plight mentality. Can't change that. End of Discussion from my side.

 

[doublemaster]

@Chinese-Dragon, he showed the mirror to Congress spokesperson/leader.

when the Congress man was asking that why aren't there is any muslim in your cabinet than he replied that should we induct everyone based on his religion?? Isn't it a dangerous precedent??

He said that i don't divide people based on religion, i treat all 6 crore people of Gujarat as they are i.e. people of his state without taking into account there religion.

You mean he dint find a single muslim who is eligible for MLA? Seriously??

 

[Markus]

You mean he dint find a single muslim who is eligible for MLA? Seriously??

Yeah, he didn't...thats sad

 

[force1]

his name should be "Dick" vijay