Modern war planes on purchase list

[eastwatch]

Why is it so difficult to grasp the plain reality of things? Militarily BD is no match for India. No one sells 5th gen fighters unless you make one of your own (Highly doubt it for BD) or you buy one by paying the entire research cost (Also not possible for BD)

What do you thing stealth will make your planes invisible? It will only reduce detection range. Once detected, it needs support fighters to protect it, alone it will be taken out.

The reality is, try as hard as you can, you cannot win this race. Hell, Pakistan, which spends 50% of its budget on military for the past 60 years have not matched India conventionally. Nukes are their ONLY insurance policy, for BD sadly, that ship never arrived for them, forget the fact that it sailed away. Try acquiring one now and you will be placed under so many sanctions that you will not have gas to cook your Hilsa fish

In today's world, if you don't have nukes, you might be as well be walking naked in a gun fight. Having an armor (4th gen fighter, subs, tanks) only delays the inevitable, it does not eliminate the threat.

So save your money and spend it on making your country better, or else, you end up like Pakistan. Broke and negotiating in the world with a gun pointing to its own head

So, what is your idea, countries like India and Pakistan will just nuke each other? If you are right, then the two north Indian cousins would not have spent a dime on conventional weapons. As a matter of fact, a war in the future will br fought with
conventional weapons only. However, possession of a nuke decreases the possibility of a war imposed by its neighbours. It is more psychological than real to feel secure with a nuclear capability.

 

[eastwatch]

Then that would leave 50 Mig-29/Su-30s facing 250 FGFAs.

India could fly over the skies of BD as it pleased.

BD really has no choice but to go for 5th generation fighters whenever possible, otherwise the constant bullying from India would never stop.

If aerodynamic performance did not matter then why is the US banning the sales of F-22 and allowing F-35 export? The ability to quickly move around in 3D space not only allows a fighter to be in the best position to release it's missiles but also increases the chance of escape. Unless the F-35 can take out all it's opponents in BVR, it would get slaughtered in dog-fights. And with stealth facing stealth the chances are that the F-35 would not have many opportunites to use it's radar/missiles systems to take out the opposing plane all that often.

As for the PAK-FA, who knows whether a kill-switch actually exists but it is theoretically possible on modern aircraft. The Indians would have the advantage of knowing the aircraft inside out(e.g aerodynamic ability, radar frequencies etc).And there is also the possibility of Russia providing India with data to neutralise the Bangladeshi aircraft in any conflict scenario.

Although not ideal, whatever plane the Chinese produce for export would be the best purchase.

However you point out the technology of 4th/5th generation planes, all are vulnerable to a ground based missile attack. With enough SAMs in the arsenal for short, medium distance, almost all the planes will be destroyed if they are not at very high altitude. However, a plane has to come down to bomb or send its missiles. They become vulnerable at this level.

BAF has started a good job by inducting the first group of short distance missile. BAF is still practicing with these arrivals and will induct many more batteries. After this or simultaneously with this induction BAF will purchase both medium and long range SAMs in the coming years.

I do not see how enemy planes will face these SAMs. No way! So, BAF does not have to compete with India for all those fancy planes to protect its small airspace.

 

[UKBengali]

However you point out the technology of 4th/5th generation planes, all are vulnerable to a ground based missile attack. With enough SAMs in the arsenal for short, medium distance, almost all the planes will be destroyed if they are not at very high altitude. However, a plane has to come down to bomb or send its missiles. They become vulnerable at this level.

BAF has started a good job by inducting the first group of short distance missile. BAF is still practicing with these arrivals and will induct many more batteries. After this or simultaneously with this induction BAF will purchase both medium and long range SAMs in the coming years.

I do not see how enemy planes will face these SAMs. No way! So, BAF does not have to compete with India for all those fancy planes to protect its small airspace.

You have a point there. But we must not underestimate the billions of dollars it would take a build a good enough SAM network to defend against stealth aircraft. In that case, why not spend the money to buy stealth jets in the first place? With jets not only can you use them for air defence duty, they could also be used to escort non-stealthy aircraft like the possible SU-30s that could be inducted into the Bangladesh airforce and also for ground attack roles

Also, the BD Navy will need adequate air cover when out in the Bay of Bengal and only stealth jets will suffice in the next decade.

 

[Zabaniyah]

214 or 250 is pretty much the same number. Even if India has 150 by 2025, this would be enough to annihilate the airforces of Pakistan, BD and Myanmar together, unless those countries procured their own fifth generation fighters.

My argument that 16 Indian FGFAs would wipe out 40-50 BD Mig-29s/Su-30s still holds.

And why would they attack us? It is not India's policy. I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Do we have missiles and defense systems to counter their's?

Their missile technology is light years ahead of us since we don't even have our own missile technology!

And on a side note, up-to-date SAM and radar systems can detect them. And trust me, their 'stealth' aren't even going to be anywhere near the F-22 Raptor or the B-2 Spirit.

It is not just hi-tech jets that would be required against India.

Long-range SAMs, modern frigates(not the Chinese ones that BD is getting soon), diesel submarines are all part of the package that BD should be aiming for.

Long-range SAM and subs are already in the shopping list.

In addition to the military arena BD also needs to be intelligent in managing it's relations with other important countries like US, EU, Japan and China.

The diplomacy is actually a lot harder than getting a decent military that would not be a walkover for the Indians.

Agreed.

With the way things are now, India could bomb any target in BD and impose a total naval blockade and ruin it's economy very quickly.

Just thinking that India will not do this or that is not the way to proceed.

Who knows that the world will be like in 2025, with a new Superpower(China) around.

An intelligent country always plans for the worse case scenario and does not leave it's security to others.

It's not India's military policy.

But to some extent, they have harmed Bangladeshi interests covertly without military adventures. And frankly, we are not doing a great job at countering that.

You know what's the best policy for Bangladesh to pursue? Keeping its head down while pursuing its interests at the same time.

Gathering 5th generation planes in the near future for a poor country like Bangladesh would simply generate too much attention in the region and the world.

And there raises a question: Would the supplying countries be willing to offer such sensitive technology to Bangladesh?

For some time, those things will remain the stuff of rich countries. Only very few developing countries like India and China are planning to acquire them. And again, they'd be no where near the F-22 Raptor (And USA will always be our friend).

It doesn't matter how hard they try, the US would always have the cutting edge of technology. Hell, they are even working on a 6th generation plane. Are we hearing of a 6th generation plane from any other country? NO.

Anyway the price tag of the F-35 would pretty much rule it out for BD, even by 2025.

A J-20 or PAK FA would easily cost over $100 million each. Your point being? There are other potential associated costs as well.

Really?

India is paying for 50% of the development costs of the PAK-FA. Last I heard, India and Russia would both have to agree before it is exported to any other country.

The Russian and Indian one are two entirely different programs. Although, the Indian one has Russian participation.

Which is why I think that BD would more than likely buy Chinese stealth jets in the next decade.

All for the long term.

But even if Bangladesh have 5th, 6th or even 7th generation planes, the security issues in Bangladesh will not be solved unless they tackle the actual security problem, and the issues that arise from them.

Bangladesh gov. must spend as much as possible on the IT sector of the country. F-35 is nothing if not it has the software guided F-35 and the weaponary. It is that simple. We just need some good brains and creativity. Also the gov. should spend much more on the education, specially post-secondary and post-graduate. We need to spend a lot on research. For god sake fear none but Allah. By the way, anyone buys that west is the gog and magog (Yajuj and majuj) (From US to Russia)?

Fun fact: The F-35 uses C++ programming. A language already taught in colleges But well said mate. Nothing beats the civilian sector.

 

[eastwatch]

You have a point there. But we must not underestimate the billions of dollars it would take a build a good enough SAM network to defend against stealth aircraft. In that case, why not spend the money to buy stealth jets in the first place? With jets not only can you use them for air defence duty, they could also be used to escort non-stealthy aircraft like the possible SU-30s that could be inducted into the Bangladesh airforce and also for ground attack roles

Also, the BD Navy will need adequate air cover when out in the Bay of Bengal and only stealth jets will suffice in the next decade.

I think, you are fond of watching too much of fantasy war movies that create images with the help from computer. How do you think of purchasing stealth aircrafts, are they freely available like those toys you may be fond of buying time to time?. Do we have that kind of money to buy the real ones and why others would sell a top-secret plane to a poor BD? But, the main question is why do we need these? Of course, not to satisfy your own ego,I guess. Please try to send posts based on rational thinking.

 

[UKBengali]

I think, you are fond of watching too much of fantasy war movies that create images with the help from computer. How do you think of purchasing stealth aircrafts, are they freely available like those toys you may be fond of buying time to time?. Do we have that kind of money to buy the real ones and why others would sell a top-secret plane to a poor BD? But, the main question is why do we need these? Of course, not to satisfy your own ego,I guess. Please try to send posts based on rational thinking.

What a completely unconstructive post from someone who advocates the use of SAMs to defend against stealth.

It is possible but would literally cost billions of dollars. The money would be better spend buying stealth aircraft that are more versatile.

Who would sell stealth?

Well the Chinese are believed to be developing an export stealth aircraft specifically designed for, you guessed it, export.

Price should be around the 70-80 million dollar range, which when you take into account that deliveries will not happen till middle of next decade will mean that a decent number(~50) will be affordable.

I am not going to explain to you why these aircraft will be needed as I have done it in previous posts.

 

[UKBengali]

And why would they attack us? It is not India's policy. I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Do we have missiles and defense systems to counter their's?

Their missile technology is light years ahead of us since we don't even have our own missile technology!

And on a side note, up-to-date SAM and radar systems can detect them. And trust me, their 'stealth' aren't even going to be anywhere near the F-22 Raptor or the B-2 Spirit.

I am not going to argue with your assesments on how good US technology is.

By 2030, in my opinion, China would be a peer to US technology in most fields.
.
Let us wait till then and see who is right.

Gathering 5th generation planes in the near future for a poor country like Bangladesh would simply generate too much attention in the region and the world.

And there raises a question: Would the supplying countries be willing to offer such sensitive technology to Bangladesh?

Again I will say that any potential BD purchase would be around 2020, with deliveries around the middle of next decade.I do not consider that the "near future".

Stealth aircraft will pretty much be no big deal by then.

A J-20 or PAK FA would easily cost over $100 million each. Your point being? There are other potential associated costs as well.

China would probably never sell the J-20 to anyone.

I am advocating the stealth aircraft that China is developing now for export, which should be ready for production by 2020.

It will cost a lost less than the J-20 and a more realistic price is 70-80 million dollars

With a much larger BD economy by then, the country should be able to afford around 50 or so planes.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

And why would they attack us? It is not India's policy. I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Do we have missiles and defense systems to counter their's?

Would you mind defining the term attack, then we can have some lesson from you on a country's policy? To engage in a war you need legal reasons not the best military in the world. If a nation possesses minimum dignity, it'll try to save that first and will never die shaking and measuring defense system of enemy.

 

[Zabaniyah]

I am not going to argue with your assesments on how good US technology is.

By 2030, in my opinion, China would be a peer to US technology in most fields.
.
Let us wait till then and see who is right.

2030? Damn, that's a bit too optimistic isn't it?

America's economy is extremely advanced, and the country that can most closely match against that is perhaps Japan. But then again, the latter isn't that great when it comes to military technology, but an absolute top when it comes to civilian applications.
The US has evolved into a knowledge-based economy, much of it in the service sector. It is no longer a typical industrial-based one. All that was in the good old days of pre-WWII and the Cold War.

On the other hand, a US manufacturing employee would have to know a lot more than being literate and knowing basic math. And they currently produce a lot of hi-tech stuff that China can only dream about right now.

A particular technology the US can manufacture now, will take China decades and a lot of money to duplicate it.

The US will continue advancing in technology for as long as it exists. And likely so even after 2050.

Again I will say that any potential BD purchase would be around 2020, with deliveries around the middle of next decade.I do not consider that the "near future".

Stealth aircraft will pretty much be no big deal by then.

Not sure about the 'big deal' part. It'll still be sensitive technology. The F-15 for instance is only sold to a select group of countries. Yes, even though it's a 4th generation plane serving for 40 years.

We are not officially anyone's allies. Or dalal

Here's the risk:

Le Hasina/Tareq: Hi Uncle Sam!

Le Uncle Sam: Hi Derp...

Le Hasina/Tareq: What can I do for you?

Le Uncle Sam: Say, that's a nice looking J-XX/FC-XX you got there. Mind if we look into the key aspects of it's technology?

Le Hasina/Tareq: But! But! Uncle Hu told me that I mustn't share this beauty with you.

*Le Uncle Sam hands $5 million to Le Hasina/Tareq.*

Le Hasina/Tareq: Thank you! Come again!

Le Uncle Sam: Why...yes I will Derp

Le Bongo tax payer: There goes my tax money (poor bastard works so hard to pay his government the taxes, and yet he still has to go around in a freaking rickshaw or use public bus in one of the world's worst capital cities).

China would probably never sell the J-20 to anyone.

I am advocating the stealth aircraft that China is developing now for export, which should be ready for production by 2020.

It will cost a lost less than the J-20 and a more realistic price is 70-80 million dollars

Yeah, we've heard about all those Internet rumors about this Chinese stealth development that'll mirror the F-35. For now, let's just say they are 'rumors'.

With a much larger BD economy by then, the country should be able to afford around 50 or so planes.

I wouldn't count on that. Sure, we can spend billions on defense. But I prefer investing in the civilian sector. It always yields greater returns than the military industry.

As long as Bangladesh is stuck with the current axis of leadership, then I really don't trust them. The current political dramas will go on for at least 15-20 years.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Best option for Bangladesh will be Mig-35s (subjected to if Russia is still going with that project), perfect for air superiority and multi-role capability for it's price. I'd rate it above F-18SH and Gripen.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Would you mind defining the term attack, then we can have some lesson from you on a country's policy? To engage in a war you need legal reasons not the best military in the world. If a nation possesses minimum dignity, it'll try to save that first and will never die shaking and measuring defense system of enemy.

Never implied that.

But the time frame for acquiring 5th generation fighters within the middle of next decade is not realistic. Military of Bangladesh will always be a few steps behind India.

 

[Manticore]

Major Shaheb , there are 3 aspects of a fighter -- design and electronics , specs---- design is out there for every one to see --- electronics is where we get partial info -- specs are are published/updated as in the case of jft

based on specs [dubai airshow] and design , jf-17 is not ''crap'' as you put it .. ive deleted your ignorant jft posts before alonge verbal warning.. This time you needed a something stronger

http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-wa...canard-non-canard-fighters-2.html#post3006617
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...hunder-over-jas-39-gripen-25.html#post2938181

 

[PlanetSoldier]

Never implied that.

But the time frame for acquiring 5th generation fighters within the middle of next decade is not realistic. Military of Bangladesh will always be a few steps behind India.

You said india will not attack us and I see we are in relentless attack by them. What's the point always comparing military strength...armed forces are built to defend a nation from enemy not to die in fear by might of enemy.

 

[Zabaniyah]

You said india will not attack us and I see we are in relentless attack by them. What's the point always comparing military strength...armed forces are built to defend a nation from enemy not to die in fear by might of enemy.

You mean a direct military attack? Since when? I did imply their policy. And doing so would draw international condemnation and sanctions.

Dude, they are pretty trollish, but they certainly aren't stupid enough to mount a direct military attack. They know and understand their limitations. And of-course, Bangladesh would defend itself in any such military attack.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

You mean a direct military attack? Since when? I did imply their policy. And doing so would draw international condemnation and sanctions.

Dude, they are pretty trollish, but they certainly aren't stupid enough to mount a direct military attack. They know and understand their limitations. And of-course, Bangladesh would defend itself in any such military attack.

Well..you are waiting for direct attack then. Just tell me if we now start killing indian the same way on border (let's keep all other issues away), what's gonna happen? There's valid reason too, almost everyday BDR guys are arresting some indian on border and instead of arresting they can start killing following indian logic. Now tell me what will happen then, will they sit idle or start a fight? Now the same thing doesn't make a sense as attack for Bangladeshi part..right?