Modern war planes on purchase list

[SpArK]

We have good relations with the US. The thing is, US equipment are expensive. The attached strings does not always bode well for a cash-strapped air force like BAF.

In this case we are focusing on the jet price. So american costs doesnt matter much.

I was simply pointing it as an option , though not as a practical option.

IMO Its better if looked into Mig-35s.

Similarity with exciting fleet, an AESA, no logistical worries and yes it looks damn seXy too.

 

[boltu]

At current growth rates, Bangladesh economy would grow to around 1 trillion dollars(PPP) by 2030 at today prices. It's nominal GDP would be around 500 billion dollars. If the economy grows quicker then these numbers would be higher.

I would very much doubt whether there would be any further purchases of 4th generation aircraft after the 16 mentioned SU-30MK2's.

More than likely Bangladesh would be looking at stealth fighters for the 2020s. The candidates would be F-35, Pak-FA and the Chinese stealth fighter in development specifically designed for export.

With the much more massive size of the Bangladesh economy in the next decade, the country should easily be able to afford around 50 or so of these fighters.

No need of any stealth fighters,look at our neighbors buddy!!Do you think we need such hightech 5th gen fighters to deal with them.4th gen fighters and some decent air defence systems would be more than enough.

 

[UKBengali]

No need of any stealth fighters,look at our neighbors buddy!!Do you think we need such hightech 5th gen fighters to deal with them.4th gen fighters and some decent air defence systems would be more than enough.

Well India could have around 250 stealth fighters by 2025.

What good would 50 Mig-29/SU-30s be?

A squadron(16) of Indian FGFAs could shoot down the entire Bangladesh airforce.

Any deliveries of stealth planes would not happen till the mid-2020s so I do not understand this description of "high-tech" from some posters.

The US will by then have had the F-22 operational for 20 years.

Personally I would prefer Bangladesh to purchase the J-2X fighter that is specifically being designed for export. It would combine high performance and have a price tag that would allow Bangladesh to purchase a sizeable number of this. And to top it all off, India would have no "kill-switch" like it would if BD aquired any version of the PAK-FA. The F-35 would not be a good choice due to the exhorbitant cost and it's serious lack of aerodynamic performance, although it should have the best electronics out of the 3.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Well India could have around 250 stealth fighters by 2025.

What good would 50 Mig-29/SU-30s be?

A squadron(16) of Indian FGFAs could shoot down the entire Bangladesh airforce.

Any deliveries of stealth planes would not happen till the mid-2020s so I do not understand this description of "high-tech" from some posters.

The US will by then have had the F-22 operational for 20 years.

Personally I would prefer Bangladesh to purchase the J-2X fighter that is specifically being designed for export. It would combine high performance and have a price tag that would allow Bangladesh to purchase a sizeable number of this. And to top it all off, India would have no "kill-switch" like it would if BD aquired any version of the PAK-FA. The F-35 would not be a good choice due to the exhorbitant cost and it's serious lack of aerodynamic performance, although it should have the best electronics out of the 3.

You do understand that BAF still currently operates a lot of older 3+ generation aircraft like the F-7 variants? The MiG-29SE is still a legacy 4th generation version.

Taking in a 5th generation too soon would be a maintenance nightmare. BAF need to get familiar with 4th generation planes thoroughly before moving on the 5th generation ones. One step at a time. So it justifies the purchase of some solid 4th generation ones like the MiG-29 and Su-30.

And try to be self-sufficient on that (these current developments are good).

And what's more, it takes at least 6-10 years for a new aircraft platform to be operationally proven. Even the current king of the skies, the F-22 Raptor has some operational issues now.

Would it really be justified for Bangladesh to go through the proving phase of new highly advance aircraft? The answer is simply no. Bangladesh has more important issues to address.

As far as the F-35 is concerned, aerodynamic performance is not the most important factor. The future is having great avionics and radar. "Intelligent systems" is the key. All those fancy moves and speeds will only be good for airshows.

And finally, there's no such thing as a "kill-switch". Not even the Americans have that on Saudi F-15s or Pakistani F-16s for example.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

I think the US did offer us the F-16 recently. It was one of the candidates against the MiG-29.

We favored the MiG-29 since we already operate it.

Recently with some new development of relations not before when BD was not allowed.

There is no restrictions whatsover in selling gripen to BD.

Gripens have bee sold to Thailand and S. Africa too.

This is because they were allowed to buy, now probably BD will be allowed to buy with new dimension of relationship with US.

 

[UKBengali]

You do understand that BAF still currently operates a lot of older 3+ generation aircraft like the F-7 variants? The MiG-29SE is still a legacy 4th generation version.

Taking in a 5th generation too soon would be a maintenance nightmare. BAF need to get familiar with 4th generation planes thoroughly before moving on the 5th generation ones. One step at a time. So it justifies the purchase of some solid 4th generation ones like the MiG-29 and Su-30.

And try to be self-sufficient on that (these current developments are good).

And what's more, it takes at least 6-10 years for a new aircraft platform to be operationally proven. Even the current king of the skies, the F-22 Raptor has some operational issues now.

Would it really be justified for Bangladesh to go through the proving phase of new highly advance aircraft? The answer is simply no. Bangladesh has more important issues to address.

As far as the F-35 is concerned, aerodynamic performance is not the most important factor. The future is having great avionics and radar. "Intelligent systems" is the key. All those fancy moves and speeds will only be good for airshows.

And finally, there's no such thing as a "kill-switch". Not even the Americans have that on Saudi F-15s or Pakistani F-16s for example.

Then that would leave 50 Mig-29/Su-30s facing 250 FGFAs.

India could fly over the skies of BD as it pleased.

BD really has no choice but to go for 5th generation fighters whenever possible, otherwise the constant bullying from India would never stop.

If aerodynamic performance did not matter then why is the US banning the sales of F-22 and allowing F-35 export? The ability to quickly move around in 3D space not only allows a fighter to be in the best position to release it's missiles but also increases the chance of escape. Unless the F-35 can take out all it's opponents in BVR, it would get slaughtered in dog-fights. And with stealth facing stealth the chances are that the F-35 would not have many opportunites to use it's radar/missiles systems to take out the opposing plane all that often.

As for the PAK-FA, who knows whether a kill-switch actually exists but it is theoretically possible on modern aircraft. The Indians would have the advantage of knowing the aircraft inside out(e.g aerodynamic ability, radar frequencies etc).And there is also the possibility of Russia providing India with data to neutralise the Bangladeshi aircraft in any conflict scenario.

Although not ideal, whatever plane the Chinese produce for export would be the best purchase.

 

[zip]

Just keep your force stronger than myanmar ..you will have all the peace and confidence.. You have to be prepared for worst possible scenario ..isreal though a tiny country have the respect of whole world for their force
bangladesh can do well if it avoid attracting unnecessary tensions..

 

[Zabaniyah]

Recently with some new development of relations not before when BD was not allowed.

This is because they were allowed to buy, now probably BD will be allowed to buy with new dimension of relationship with US.

That was a long, long time ago.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/113695-u-s-refused-sell-f-16s-bangladesh.html

Then that would leave 50 Mig-29/Su-30s facing 250 FGFAs.

India could fly over the skies of BD as it pleased.

BD really has no choice but to go for 5th generation fighters whenever possible, otherwise the constant bullying from India would never stop.

250 FGFAs? I think that figure is for Russia. Not India. For IAF, the number is over 214. And serial production will start on 2019. That'll take a lot of time.

And besides, Bangladesh was never founded to militarily counter India. The current security issues that Bangladesh has with India does not require hi-tech jets - which by the way no one is doing anything about it. And hi-tech jets isn't going to solve the actual problems.

India wouldn't directly attack Bangladesh without any justification whatsoever All Bangladesh needs is proper management of national security to contain India. And that is for starters.

If aerodynamic performance did not matter then why is the US banning the sales of F-22 and allowing F-35 export? The ability to quickly move around in 3D space not only allows a fighter to be in the best position to release it's missiles but also increases the chance of escape. Unless the F-35 can take out all it's opponents in BVR, it would get slaughtered in dog-fights. And with stealth facing stealth the chances are that the F-35 would not have many opportunites to use it's radar/missiles systems to take out the opposing plane all that often.

I never said trust-vectoring was a bad thing. The Raptor can do the job it was designed to do

It's not too say that aerodynamics should be completely ignored, but it isn't the most important factor.

Watch this video, you may get answers:

As for the PAK-FA, who knows whether a kill-switch actually exists but it is theoretically possible on modern aircraft. The Indians would have the advantage of knowing the aircraft inside out(e.g aerodynamic ability, radar frequencies etc).And there is also the possibility of Russia providing India with data to neutralise the Bangladeshi aircraft in any conflict scenario.

It's not like India is in any position to dictate Russia. Even the Georgians managed to shoot down Russian aircraft with Russian weapons

Although not ideal, whatever plane the Chinese produce for export would be the best purchase.

We asked for the J-10 before, it was likely they refused. The Chinese are still very new in the field, but developing fast. I'm sure we will consider their equipment in the future.

 

[UKBengali]

That was a long, long time ago.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/113695-u-s-refused-sell-f-16s-bangladesh.html



250 FGFAs? I think that figure is for Russia. Not India. For IAF, the number is over 214. And serial production will start on 2019. That'll take a lot of time. .

214 or 250 is pretty much the same number. Even if India has 150 by 2025, this would be enough to annihilate the airforces of Pakistan, BD and Myanmar together, unless those countries procured their own fifth generation fighters.

My argument that 16 Indian FGFAs would wipe out 40-50 BD Mig-29s/Su-30s still holds.

And besides, Bangladesh was never founded to militarily counter India. The current security issues that Bangladesh has with India does not require hi-tech jets - which by the way no one is doing anything about it. And hi-tech jets isn't going to solve the actual problems.

India wouldn't directly attack Bangladesh without any justification whatsoever All Bangladesh needs is proper management of national security to contain India. And that is for starters. .

It is not just hi-tech jets that would be required against India.

Long-range SAMs, modern frigates(not the Chinese ones that BD is getting soon), diesel submarines are all part of the package that BD should be aiming for.

In addition to the military arena BD also needs to be intelligent in managing it's relations with other important countries like US, EU, Japan and China.

The diplomacy is actually a lot harder than getting a decent military that would not be a walkover for the Indians.

With the way things are now, India could bomb any target in BD and impose a total naval blockade and ruin it's economy very quickly.

Just thinking that India will not do this or that is not the way to proceed.

Who knows that the world will be like in 2025, with a new Superpower(China) around.

An intelligent country always plans for the worse case scenario and does not leave it's security to others.

I never said trust-vectoring was a bad thing. The Raptor can do the job it was designed to do

It's not too say that aerodynamics should be completely ignored, but it isn't the most important factor.

Watch this video, you may get answers:

Anyway the price tag of the F-35 would pretty much rule it out for BD, even by 2025.

It's not like India is in any position to dictate Russia. Even the Georgians managed to shoot down Russian aircraft with Russian weapons

Really?

India is paying for 50% of the development costs of the PAK-FA. Last I heard, India and Russia would both have to agree before it is exported to any other country.

We asked for the J-10 before, it was likely they refused. The Chinese are still very new in the field, but developing fast. I'm sure we will consider their equipment in the future.

Which is why I think that BD would more than likely buy Chinese stealth jets in the next decade.

 

[wild_fire1979]

214 or 250 is pretty much the same number. Even if India has 150 by 2025, this would be enough to annihilate the airforces of Pakistan, BD and Myanmar together, unless those countries procured their own fifth generation fighters.

My argument that 16 Indian FGFAs would wipe out 40-50 BD Mig-29s/Su-30s still holds.



It is not just hi-tech jets that would be required against India.

Long-range SAMs, modern frigates(not the Chinese ones that BD is getting soon), diesel submarines are all part of the package that BD should be aiming for.

In addition to the military arena BD also needs to be intelligent in managing it's relations with other important countries like US, EU, Japan and China.

The diplomacy is actually a lot harder than getting a decent military that would not be a walkover for the Indians.

With the way things are now, India could bomb any target in BD and impose a total naval blockade and ruin it's economy very quickly.

Just thinking that India will not do this or that is not the way to proceed.

Who knows that the world will be like in 2025, with a new Superpower(China) around.

An intelligent country always plans for the worse case scenario and does not leave it's security to others.





Anyway the price tag of the F-35 would pretty much rule it out for BD, even by 2025.






Really?

India is paying for 50% of the development costs of the PAK-FA. Last I heard, India and Russia would both have to agree before it is exported to any other country.



Which is why I think that BD would more than likely buy Chinese stealth jets in the next decade.

Why is it so difficult to grasp the plain reality of things? Militarily BD is no match for India. No one sells 5th gen fighters unless you make one of your own (Highly doubt it for BD) or you buy one by paying the entire research cost (Also not possible for BD)

What do you thing stealth will make your planes invisible? It will only reduce detection range. Once detected, it needs support fighters to protect it, alone it will be taken out.

The reality is, try as hard as you can, you cannot win this race. Hell, Pakistan, which spends 50% of its budget on military for the past 60 years have not matched India conventionally. Nukes are their ONLY insurance policy, for BD sadly, that ship never arrived for them, forget the fact that it sailed away. Try acquiring one now and you will be placed under so many sanctions that you will not have gas to cook your Hilsa fish

In today's world, if you don't have nukes, you might be as well be walking naked in a gun fight. Having an armor (4th gen fighter, subs, tanks) only delays the inevitable, it does not eliminate the threat.

So save your money and spend it on making your country better, or else, you end up like Pakistan. Broke and negotiating in the world with a gun pointing to its own head

 

[UKBengali]

There is a multijet CRDI diesel engined Mig-29 coming soon. Bookings are open.

Mileage as per rumours is 30 KMPL.



We have countries that use fully American jets in neighbourhood.

Once the initial deal and the spare engines are purchased its a deal.

As far as i know BD have no issues with US.

Why is it so difficult to grasp the plain reality of things? Militarily BD is no match for India. No one sells 5th gen fighters unless you make one of your own (Highly doubt it for BD) or you buy one by paying the entire research cost (Also not possible for BD)

What do you thing stealth will make your planes invisible? It will only reduce detection range. Once detected, it needs support fighters to protect it, alone it will be taken out.

The reality is, try as hard as you can, you cannot win this race. Hell, Pakistan, which spends 50% of its budget on military for the past 60 years have not matched India conventionally. Nukes are their ONLY insurance policy, for BD sadly, that ship never arrived for them, forget the fact that it sailed away. Try acquiring one now and you will be placed under so many sanctions that you will not have gas to cook your Hilsa fish

In today's world, if you don't have nukes, you might be as well be walking naked in a gun fight. Having an armor (4th gen fighter, subs, tanks) only delays the inevitable, it does not eliminate the threat.

So save your money and spend it on making your country better, or else, you end up like Pakistan. Broke and negotiating in the world with a gun pointing to its own head

You really have missed the point.

 

[Lighting_Fighter]

Bangladesh gov. must spend as much as possible on the IT sector of the country. F-35 is nothing if not it has the software guided F-35 and the weaponary. It is that simple. We just need some good brains and creativity. Also the gov. should spend much more on the education, specially post-secondary and post-graduate. We need to spend a lot on research. For god sake fear none but Allah. By the way, anyone buys that west is the gog and magog (Yajuj and majuj) (From US to Russia)?

 

[wild_fire1979]

You really have missed the point.

And what point is that?

BD planning to buy 5th gen fighters which no one will sell them, not even their BFF China to counter a perceived Indian threat?

 

[Avisheik]

Then that would leave 50 Mig-29/Su-30s facing 250 FGFAs.

India could fly over the skies of BD as it pleased.

BD really has no choice but to go for 5th generation fighters whenever possible, otherwise the constant bullying from India would never stop.

If aerodynamic performance did not matter then why is the US banning the sales of F-22 and allowing F-35 export? The ability to quickly move around in 3D space not only allows a fighter to be in the best position to release it's missiles but also increases the chance of escape. Unless the F-35 can take out all it's opponents in BVR, it would get slaughtered in dog-fights. And with stealth facing stealth the chances are that the F-35 would not have many opportunites to use it's radar/missiles systems to take out the opposing plane all that often.

As for the PAK-FA, who knows whether a kill-switch actually exists but it is theoretically possible on modern aircraft. The Indians would have the advantage of knowing the aircraft inside out(e.g aerodynamic ability, radar frequencies etc).And there is also the possibility of Russia providing India with data to neutralise the Bangladeshi aircraft in any conflict scenario.

Although not ideal, whatever plane the Chinese produce for export would be the best purchase.

\

Ever heard of SAMs??? A dense network can easily protect our skies

Why are you treating india as a military threat?? Bangladesh's defence capabilities isnt aimed at india, its aimed for self protection. By the way, there is a difference between diplomatic/political bullying vs military bullying. India only practicing one with us and its not military bullying.

 

[Luffy 500]

Bangladesh gov. must spend as much as possible on the IT sector of the country. F-35 is nothing if not it has the software guided F-35 and the weaponary. It is that simple. We just need some good brains and creativity. Also the gov. should spend much more on the education, specially post-secondary and post-graduate. We need to spend a lot on research. For god sake fear none but Allah. By the way, anyone buys that west is the gog and magog (Yajuj and majuj) (From US to Russia)?

Along side IT, electronics industry should also be developed. I think our main concern should be a
very strong navy with anti-sub war fare capabilities that can break any naval blockade and so
we need a really strong navy at that. Alongside that we need to have a very robust air-defence
system and 50-60 4.5 gen fighters can easily supplement that. 5th gen fighters for BD for at least
the next 25 years is out of question. The most important thing for us is to built a advance
shipbuilding industry by 2030. This is one sector that can propel us to industrilization at the
earliest.