Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[Jaggu]

I don't think ruling class was muslim jatt, the area was either ruled by Mughals or Afghans before rise of Sikh Empire. As jaggu explained rishtedari was also main reason. On PDF there is sikh jatt who still have muslim family in Sialkot, cant remember his user.

I also have Muslim Jat Rishtedars in Faisalabad

 

[ghoul]

@haj9211

Yes they were. Maybe that's why some claim Rajput origins though the claim may actually be legitimate. On a related note, Rajput genes probably vary a lot more than Jat genes. Rajputs look completely different depending on the area they inhabit whereas Jatt look is more homogenous. Probably because rajputs are spread across such a vast area. IMO Dogra Rajputs look just as robust (if not more than) as Jatts whereas Rajasthani Rajputs are skinnier than Jatts. So Dogra Rajputs could be related to nearby Jatt clans.

Some examples of Dogra Rajputs- Yes I'm cherry picking a bit

Major Ranveer Singh Jamwal - on left receiving the prize

This is a common look among Dogra Rajputs.

Random

LOL

These are mostly only one clan of rajputs - the Jamwals. The last guy is a "Salaria". I posted his pic before.

Oh so Salaria are dogras too? Ahsan Iqbal of PML-N is a Salaria. They are found in Azad Kashmir in high numbers. Also I heard somewhere that the Jamwals(also known as Minhas) actually came from Rajasthan around 16th century, and are originally Kachwaha.

As for your other question; well, their claims might hold a bit of truth. Touching the plough and remarrying widows alone was enough to degrade a person or clan from "Rajput" status. In terms of race, there's hardly any difference between Jatts and Rajputs in Punjab. Though, in Potohar, Jatts are stereotyped to be ugly and rough looking while Rajas are supposed to be good looking..

Also are you a dogra? I heard they hate the ethnic kashmiris. Is that true?

 

[Butchcassidy]

Interesting, the more you dig deeper the more obvious it is that religion didnt play as important role as once believed.

Our current understanding of religion is quite different from what it used to be. Back then things were pretty fluid and conversion from one religion to another even within families was not looked down upon specially in the rural areas. Things took a turn for the worse from 1920's onwards.

 

[ghoul]

India during the 1700-1800 was a mess because the Mughal empire had collapsed, but it's also probably the most interesting time period to read about. Hundreds of rival chiefs all playing a geographical chess game with each other.

In the same time period, some Punjabi chieftains effectively defeated some Pashtun tribes that were seeking to expand into Sind Sagar doab. Muqarrab Khan of the Gakkhars defeated both the Khattaks of Makhad, and the Yousafzais of the Hazara division. The nawabs of Kalabagh also defeated and evicted Khattaks from Kalabagh and stopped Niazis from crossing over to the other side of the Indus.The nawab of Kalabagh's reign was said to be very violent due to clashes with Khattaks and Niazis. The Tiwanas had a rivalry with nawabs of DI Khan and Mankera, who were saddozai Pashtuns. The Sials and Khokhars of Jhang effectively held out against the Pashtun chief of Multan.

So much for the "Punjabi coward" stereotype which Afghanis spread around all the time.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

In the same time period, some Punjabi chieftains effectively defeated some Pashtun tribes that were seeking to expand into Sind Sagar doab. Muqarrab Khan of the Gakkhars defeated both the Khattaks of Makhad, and the Yousafzais of the Hazara division. The nawabs of Kalabagh also defeated and evicted Khattaks from Kalabagh and stopped Niazis from crossing over to the other side of the Indus.The nawab of Kalabagh's reign was said to be very violent due to clashes with Khattaks and Niazis. The Tiwanas had a rivalry with nawabs of DI Khan and Mankera, who were saddozai Pashtuns. The Sials and Khokhars of Jhang effectively held out against the Pashtun chief of Multan.

So much for the "Punjabi coward" stereotype which Afghanis spread around all the time.

Khokhars are independent, they are believed to be related to ghakkars. While Sials of Jhang are jats, famous one include Tahir ul qadri and Heer.

 

[jandk]

Oh so Salaria are dogras too? Ahsan Iqbal of PML-N is a Salaria. They are found in Azad Kashmir in high numbers. Also I heard somewhere that the Jamwals(also known as Minhas) actually came from Rajasthan around 16th century, and are originally Kachwaha.

As for your other question; well, their claims might hold a bit of truth. Touching the plough and remarrying widows alone was enough to degrade a person or clan from "Rajput" status. In terms of race, there's hardly any difference between Jatts and Rajputs in Punjab. Though, in Potohar, Jatts are stereotyped to be ugly and rough looking while Rajas are supposed to be good looking..

Also are you a dogra? I heard they hate the ethnic kashmiris. Is that true?

Yes Salaria are Dogras afaik. I have Dogra Rajput friends whose last name is Salaria. Interesting that they are found in your region as well. I thought that Jamwal clan was exclusive to Jammu. Dogra Royal family are Jamwal rajputs.
Punjabi Jatts look different from Rajasthani Rajputs for example but I think Dogra Rajputs are lighter than Punjabi Jatts on average. They do often have a similar look though.
Yes I am a Dogra but not a Rajput. I am dogra brahmin. Yea there have been some tensions between dogras and kashmiris but both coexist peacefully today. There are thousands of kashmiri muslims, pandits, and ladakhis in Jammu. There are no communal clashes in Jammu unlike in other places. Dogra culture has absorbed large amount of kashmiri influence. Kashmiri pink tea is as popular in Jammu as it is in Srinagar. Dam aloo, Rogan Josh, Nadroo, Yakhni are cooked in every Dogra household. Kashmiri culture is found everywhere in Jammu. The reverse is probably true as well. I definitely don't hate Kashmiris (neither Kashmiri muslims nor pandits).

 

[ghoul]

Khokhars are independent, they are believed to be related to ghakkars. While Sials of Jhang are jats, famous one include Tahir ul qadri and Heer.

Khokhar name has been adopted by a lot of menials(musali/chuhras/tarkhans) just like the name bhatti is. The Khokhars of Pind Dadan Khan, Ahmadabad and Jhang are of rajput descent. In PD Khan(Jhelum) and Ahmadabad they are known as "Rajas" and intermarry with the Janjuas, with whom they had tribal clashes in the past. The Khokhars of Jhang are called rais. And no, they are not Gakhhars. Raja Ghazanfar Ali Khan of muslim league movement was a Khokhar. Menial khokhars claim a "qutub shahi" origin. Khokhars also killed Muhammad Ghauri, and were the only group in Indian subcontinent ballsy enough to resist Genghis Khan and Tamerlane

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

In the same time period, some Punjabi chieftains effectively defeated some Pashtun tribes that were seeking to expand into Sind Sagar doab. Muqarrab Khan of the Gakkhars defeated both the Khattaks of Makhad, and the Yousafzais of the Hazara division. The nawabs of Kalabagh also defeated and evicted Khattaks from Kalabagh and stopped Niazis from crossing over to the other side of the Indus.The nawab of Kalabagh's reign was said to be very violent due to clashes with Khattaks and Niazis. The Tiwanas had a rivalry with nawabs of DI Khan and Mankera, who were saddozai Pashtuns. The Sials and Khokhars of Jhang effectively held out against the Pashtun chief of Multan.

So much for the "Punjabi coward" stereotype which Afghanis spread around all the time.

in 1667, 5,000 strong Yousafzai army under bhagu khan was defeated by mughal army of attock under its faujdar kamil khan, with the help of gakkars and khattaks and reinforcements from peshawer. Later one mughal army arrived from delhi and another from kabul to advance further into yousafzai country. The credit of that victory goes to mughals, not gakkars. If you want to give credit to your gakkars, then dont forget to mention khattaks.
And khattaks of kalabagh are not evicted. Kalabagh is still a khattak majority area, of bhangi khel clan. Perhaps you are not aware of the geography of kalabagh, it doesnt lie on other side of indus. Niazis had and have occupied area east of indus, todays mianwali tehsil. They destroyed both awans and gakkars east of indus.
Khattaks and yousafzais occupied territories in attock, attock tehsil is pashtun majority. Your rajay majay, gakkars, khokars etc were saved from the raids of pashtuns by strong mughal outposts along indus.
The strongest , or should i say, any resistance to ranjeet singh was given by pashtuns of kasur, multan and mankera, not your rajay majay who liked to rode on the shoulders of mughals and sikhs for protectiön

Khokhar name has been adopted by a lot of menials(musali/chuhras/tarkhans) just like the name bhatti is. The Khokhars of Pind Dadan Khan, Ahmadabad and Jhang are of rajput descent. In PD Khan(Jhelum) and Ahmadabad they are known as "Rajas" and intermarry with the Janjuas, with whom they had tribal clashes in the past. The Khokhars of Jhang are called rais. And no, they are not Gakhhars. Raja Ghazanfar Ali Khan of muslim league movement was a Khokhar. Menial khokhars claim a "qutub shahi" origin. Khokhars also killed Muhammad Ghauri, and were the only group in Indian subcontinent ballsy enough to resist Genghis Khan and Tamerlane

Khokhar name has been adopted by a lot of menials(musali/chuhras/tarkhans) just like the name bhatti is. The Khokhars of Pind Dadan Khan, Ahmadabad and Jhang are of rajput descent. In PD Khan(Jhelum) and Ahmadabad they are known as "Rajas" and intermarry with the Janjuas, with whom they had tribal clashes in the past. The Khokhars of Jhang are called rais. And no, they are not Gakhhars. Raja Ghazanfar Ali Khan of muslim league movement was a Khokhar. Menial khokhars claim a "qutub shahi" origin. Khokhars also killed Muhammad Ghauri, and were the only group in Indian subcontinent ballsy enough to resist Genghis Khan and Tamerlane

'Hindu' khokars assassinated ghauri at the night while he was praying salat. Not an achievement at all, it was cowardice

 

[ghoul]

in 1667, 5,000 strong Yousafzai army under bhagu khan was defeated by mughal army of attock under its faujdar kamil khan, with the help of gakkars and khattaks and reinforcements from peshawer. Later one mughal army arrived from delhi and another from kabul to advance further into yousafzai country. The credit of that victory goes to mughals, not gakkars. If you want to give credit to your gakkars, then dont forget to mention khattaks.
And khattaks of kalabagh are not evicted. Kalabagh is still a khattak majority area, of bhangi khel clan. Perhaps you are not aware of the geography of kalabagh, it doesnt lie on other side of indus. Niazis had and have occupied area east of indus, todays mianwali tehsil. They destroyed both awans and gakkars east of indus.
Khattaks and yousafzais occupied territories in attock, attock tehsil is pashtun majority. Your rajay majay, gakkars, khokars etc were saved from the raids of pashtuns by strong mughal outposts along indus.
The strongest , or should i say, any resistance to ranjeet singh was given by pashtuns of kasur, multan and mankera, not your rajay majay who liked to rode on the shoulders of mughals and sikhs for protectiön

Haha. Typical delusional Afghan. Gakkhars were never destroyed by the Niazis but by Abdali. Niazis did once defeat Gakkhars and cross the river, but a Gakkhar counter attack completely destroyed Niazis. Kalabagh nawab was never ever defeated and Niazis migrated to mianwali in the recent times and never occupied it. The area east of Indus is called Awankari in Mianwali after the Awan tribe. But a typical Afghani who can't get over the fact that his delusional race of super humans could not make much headway into the fertile plains of Punjab. And lol at multani and mankera cowards. In literature it is written of how much fear the ruler of mankera had of the Tiwana chief. The Multani chief was actually killed. Read history properly. Gakkhars, Janjuas and Chibh rajay put up heavy resistance to the Sikhs. And lol at the "pashtun raids". All the punjabi tribes I mentioned were warriors to the core and their horse riding skills were famous across north India.
And Attock tehsil is not Pathan dominated. Only the chach illaqa is. 90% of people of Attock district are Potohari Awans, Khattars. That's why 100% of the MNAs, MPAs are punjabis.

Typical Afghani mentality; lying all day and all night haha.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Khokhar name has been adopted by a lot of menials(musali/chuhras/tarkhans) just like the name bhatti is. The Khokhars of Pind Dadan Khan, Ahmadabad and Jhang are of rajput descent. In PD Khan(Jhelum) and Ahmadabad they are known as "Rajas" and intermarry with the Janjuas, with whom they had tribal clashes in the past. The Khokhars of Jhang are called rais. And no, they are not Gakhhars. Raja Ghazanfar Ali Khan of muslim league movement was a Khokhar. Menial khokhars claim a "qutub shahi" origin. Khokhars also killed Muhammad Ghauri, and were the only group in Indian subcontinent ballsy enough to resist Genghis Khan and Tamerlane

It seem every chura/kammi is adopting Raja surname, @Shahmir kashmir said this once as well. Maybe he was right. And seem like Khokhars are tribe of jats, rajas, arains and churas according to book ''Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West''. And some historians believe Ghakkars and Khokhars are similar or same origin. Lots of confusion over who is who. But in central punjab rajas make minority, main groups are jats, gujjars, arain etc

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Haha. Typical delusional Afghan. Gakkhars were never destroyed by the Niazis but by Abdali. Niazis did once defeat Gakkhars and cross the river, but a Gakkhar counter attack completely destroyed Niazis. Kalabagh nawab was never ever defeated and Niazis migrated to mianwali in the recent times and never occupied it. The area east of Indus is called Awankari in Mianwali after the Awan tribe. But a typical Afghani who can't get over the fact that his delusional race of super humans could not make much headway into the fertile plains of Punjab. And lol at multani and mankera cowards. In literature it is written of how much fear the ruler of mankera had of the Tiwana chief. The Multani chief was actually killed. Read history properly. Gakkhars, Janjuas and Chibh rajay put up heavy resistance to the Sikhs. And lol at the "pashtun raids". All the punjabi tribes I mentioned were warriors to the core and their horse riding skills were famous across north India.
And Attock tehsil is not Pathan dominated. Only the chach illaqa is. 90% of people of Attock district are Potohari Awans, Khattars. That's why 100% of the MNAs, MPAs are punjabis.

Typical Afghani mentality; lying all day and all night haha.

Awans are rajputs right? or do they seriously believe recent foriegn ancestry?

 

[ghoul]

in 1667, 5,000 strong Yousafzai army under bhagu khan was defeated by mughal army of attock under its faujdar kamil khan, with the help of gakkars and khattaks and reinforcements from peshawer. Later one mughal army arrived from delhi and another from kabul to advance further into yousafzai country. The credit of that victory goes to mughals, not gakkars. If you want to give credit to your gakkars, then dont forget to mention khattaks.
And khattaks of kalabagh are not evicted. Kalabagh is still a khattak majority area, of bhangi khel clan. Perhaps you are not aware of the geography of kalabagh, it doesnt lie on other side of indus. Niazis had and have occupied area east of indus, todays mianwali tehsil. They destroyed both awans and gakkars east of indus.
Khattaks and yousafzais occupied territories in attock, attock tehsil is pashtun majority. Your rajay majay, gakkars, khokars etc were saved from the raids of pashtuns by strong mughal outposts along indus.
The strongest , or should i say, any resistance to ranjeet singh was given by pashtuns of kasur, multan and mankera, not your rajay majay who liked to rode on the shoulders of mughals and sikhs for protectiön



'Hindu' khokars assassinated ghauri at the night while he was praying salat. Not an achievement at all, it was cowardice

And lol at "assassinated at night while praying salat". He was killed in his undies before going to bed. A band of 30 khokhars sneaked into his camp and killed him while losing their own lives in the process. How's that cowardice? Now coward Afghani cooking up shit. haha. Also, how's attacking from behind and ambushing "bravery". The same khokhars resisted Genghis Khan at the battle of Indus, and Tamerlane, while the same Genghis Khan raped so many Afghani women at Bamiyan that a whole new race known as Hazara was born in one night haha. Tamerlane also raped many Afghani women. Even today, General Dostum uses rape as a "punishment" when these Afghanis don't behave themselves, and yet this coward is a refugee living on a visa that expires in 2015. Go help the women of your race men instead of making shit out of nothing.

When Mughal emperor Babur came to sub-continent, he had a clash with "rajay majay" under their leader Hathi Gakkhar at Rawalpindi. Babur even admitted to Hathi's bravery in his diary and made peace with him. Yet this same Babur beat Yousafzai chief because he had heard that the chief's daughter was too "sexy" to not wife. Eventually, he did forcibly married the chief's daughter. The current Gakkhar chief, Eriz Zaman's grandfather married and f***** the daughter of the King of Afghanistan haha.

And remember, we are talking about 1700-1800s, not Khushal Khattak or anything.

Awans are rajputs right? or do they seriously believe recent foriegn ancestry?

No they are all unanimous in claiming an Arab origin. Awans from Kashmir to Attock claim a Hashimite origin. They are fierce people and were never "destroyed" by the Niazis as this Afghani coward is claiming.

Also, I hope my fellow Pashtun countrymen reading my post wont mind it, but this Afghani had to be put into his place. His everyday posts hurt our sentiments so we have to counter his lies with facts.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

And lol at "assassinated at night while praying salat". He was killed in his undies before going to bed. A band of 30 khokhars sneaked into his camp and killed him while losing their own lives in the process. How's that cowardice? Now coward Afghani cooking up shit. haha. Also, how's attacking from behind and ambushing "bravery". The same khokhars resisted Genghis Khan at the battle of Indus, and Tamerlane, while the same Genghis Khan raped so many Afghani women at Bamiyan that a whole new race known as Hazara was born in one night haha. Tamerlane also raped many Afghani women. Even today, General Dostum uses rape as a "punishment" when these Afghanis don't behave themselves, and yet this coward is a refugee living on a visa that expires in 2015. Go help the women of your race men instead of making shit out of nothing.

When Mughal emperor Babur came to sub-continent, he had a clash with "rajay majay" under their leader Hathi Gakkhar at Rawalpindi. Babur even admitted to Hathi's bravery in his diary and made peace with him. Yet this same Babur beat Yousafzai chief because he had heard that the chief's daughter was too "sexy" to not wife. Eventually, he did forcibly married the chief's daughter. The current Gakkhar chief, Eriz Zaman's grandfather married and f***** the daughter of the King of Afghanistan haha.

And remember, we are talking about 1700-1800s, not Khushal Khattak or anything.



No they are all unanimous in claiming an Arab origin. Awans from Kashmir to Attock claim a Hashimite origin. They are fierce people and were never "destroyed" by the Niazis as this Afghani coward is claiming.

Also, I hope my fellow Pashtun countrymen reading my post wont mind it, but this Afghani had to be put into his place. His everyday posts hurt our sentiments so we have to counter his lies with facts.

You think pakistani pakhtuns would be o.k with your hateful stuff against pakhtuns?. Lets see how @ghilzai think about your flowery words.
You claimed pashtuns are your friends, yet you went full racist against them .

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Oh so Salaria are dogras too? Ahsan Iqbal of PML-N is a Salaria. They are found in Azad Kashmir in high numbers. Also I heard somewhere that the Jamwals(also known as Minhas) actually came from Rajasthan around 16th century, and are originally Kachwaha.

As for your other question; well, their claims might hold a bit of truth. Touching the plough and remarrying widows alone was enough to degrade a person or clan from "Rajput" status. In terms of race, there's hardly any difference between Jatts and Rajputs in Punjab. Though, in Potohar, Jatts are stereotyped to be ugly and rough looking while Rajas are supposed to be good looking..

Also are you a dogra? I heard they hate the ethnic kashmiris. Is that true?

Again wrong in so many levels. Rajput or raja is just a title, anyone can become raja now days. Look at dogras, i see so many mongloid people in them. Rajputs, rajas are titles given by Brahmins. Jats were not under hindu caste system. As far as potohoris being fairer then central punjabi, thats another lie without any basis.

Kiani Potohar

Current one from central punjab, Gujrat

Waseem Akram from central punjab while Shoaib Akhtar potohar. Believe me there are many examples, must of actors, models from punjab come from central punjab...

 

[KingMamba]

Forget about what you have seen in your imagination. Look at your black and white picture, i have also seen your kid picture which was in colour. Your skin tone will be considered dark in central punjab. You ego is clearly hurt, i remember how you said you was confused with Iranis and i laughed when i saw your picture as kid, turned out normal Indian skin tone. Believe me you have typical inferiority complex we see in Indians. So far you have failed to provide good reason why we should change perception about dogras. Even your own exemple failed.

In Pakistan you are not considered fair unless your skin tone is that of Shahid Afridi. Many Punjabis will have that skin tone but compared to pashtuns % will be much lower. And in dardic Pakistani groups in Kashmir that % is even higher then pashtuns.

Even just looking at his black and white picture I can tell he is darker than me lol and I am a Sailkoti which is Central Punjabi no?

He may be right..... many indians can pass for persians . if he says he does , why are you bothered ?why u gettin all worked up ?

I think @jandk would not pass for Iranian but would easily pass for Hispanic. I have a Guatemalan friend who looks kinda like him lol.