Metro: If it was done correctly.

[hasnainfirst]

They don't need educated people, they need harsh rules and regulations. Those educate even the most stupid people. When you realize that your actions have grave consequences, you would refrain from misconduct.

Btw, the education your talking about (universities, and schools) is different from the issues of public transportation. People need to realize this and stop bsing.

Oh why does the army have such a large budget when we dont have schools. Oh why does the president drive around in a bulletproof car when we dont have schools. This nonsense needs to stop and people need to realize that correlation doesnt imply causation

Our problems are far too much complicated , so i guess i will bail out of this discussion ....

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Our problems are far too much complicated , so i guess i will bail out of this discussion ....

No, you are confusing many different problems into one. Also you don't realize the importance of public transportation which is sad. It will take me days to make you understand the importance, so I recommend you to do some research regarding it.

 

[war&peace]

They don't need educated people, they need harsh rules and regulations. Those educate even the most stupid people. When you realize that your actions have grave consequences, you would refrain from misconduct.

Btw, the education your talking about (universities, and schools) is different from the issues of public transportation. People need to realize this and stop bsing.

Oh why does the army have such a large budget when we dont have schools. Oh why does the president drive around in a bulletproof car when we dont have schools. This nonsense needs to stop and people need to realize that correlation doesnt imply causation

Sir, we need an efficient transport system but the way it has been implemented in Pakistan, it is far from being efficient..rather it cannot recover even its own operational cost and it will remain so in the foreseeable future because we have not addressed the issue. People need to show discipline on the road. For this you need both very strict laws and good education. Metro, the way it has been constructed will never be able to replace the need for cars, motorbikes etc. Here in Sweden, people prefer metro over personal transport especially in the large cities like Stockholm because it not only reaches every part of the city but driving a car can be quite expensive as parking lots are limited and expensive and even there is a congestion tax between 08:00 to 18:00. This discourages people from taking car. Me & my wife both have our own cars and an SUV: three in total for a family of two but we use metros and bicycles more often than cars.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Dedicated track is not unique to Pakistan and it was necessary as we have people who don't give way to even Ambulance so expecting them that they would have give way to these buses is foolish, however elevated track was unneeded in most of places.

the first metro bus in Lahore was constructed on the same road, after a partition was made. And trust me using the same road in a city like Lahore just increased the traffic rush even more.

 

[war&peace]

Necessary in Pakistan. Won't work otherwise. You should visit Pakistan, you will get a better image. Been to Karachi ever?

Bhai I have lived in Pakistan and have family homes in Lahore, Isb and Multan. I do agree I hate Lahore's traffic and despite being an excellent driver, I don't drive in Lahore so much so that if I'm alone and I have to go somewhere, instead of driving the car, I end up calling for a taxi especially if I have to touch Multan road, Mall road etc.
Lived in Karachi twice each time more than two months but my experience is not of the true Karachi because I was living in DHA, near Clifton but I did visit Tariq road, Empress market, Doleman mall, Park towers and Forum and manji hotel on NHA.

 

[Dante80]

Regarding bus public transportation and dedicated lanes or ramps. To build a bus metro system you need the appropriate space for it. If you integrate it into your existing road network, said network should be able to already cope with the road traffic on its own. This almost never happens (the ironic part is that if it did, you probably wouldn't really need a bus transportation system anyway), meaning that you have to either reduce road traffic so that the dedicated lanes that remove throughput from it can work, or simply decouple the bus system from road traffic - via building elevated ramps, for example, or dedicated lanes with no (easy) access to the road network.

This is a catch 22 for many cities. The best option is to simply bite the bullet and move to a subway train system, using buses for connecting parts of the city to the subway network itself. This is costly though, and very time consuming too.

If you HAVE to do a bus network, elevated ramps or decoupled lanes is the next best thing. It is costly, but pretty much ensures that the network will work with good efficiency/punctuality, and - in the case of elevation - that the existing road network will not be affected majorly. In this case - but by paying more - you can also replace buses with trams, since they are better for the environment and also even more efficient.

Co-hosted bus and traffic lanes is the cheapest solution, but also the most inefficient in throughput. The lanes get hobbled with illegal road traffic, the large buses entering the system make the existing traffic problem worse, the people using the buses cannot really depend on them on getting to their destination punctually, and you need strict law enforcement to even make the thing work. Many cities have to rely in such a system because there is no other choice really. It is not a good choice though.

Lastly, there is really no such thing as "profitable" mass transportation. These systems are a priori designed with other goals in mind (serving the community, boosting property, tourism and business values, reducing pollution and traffic congestion, providing access to transportation for sensitive social groups like the poor or people with disabilities, etc etc). You cannot reliably set a ticket price that would get back your investment promptly, simply because this runs contrary to the MO of the system itself. This is why transportation infrastructure programs like these are often funded or co-funded by governments, with private initiative moving to the contractor side of the equation.

 

[Sugarcane]

the first metro bus in Lahore was constructed on the same road, after a partition was made. And trust me using the same road in a city like Lahore just increased the traffic rush even more.

Traffic is increasing in Lahore and every other city is increasing everyday, forget that you will ever have empty roads no matter what you do. In mega cities of world, you will see many people using public transport despite having cars because it save them lot of time compare to traveling own car. So, we should better start rolling out comprehensive public transport network in big cities with proper planning.

 

[Dante80]

Traffic is increasing in Lahore and every other city is increasing everyday

Something that must be said is that traffic always increases to the point of saturation in a network. There is no such thing as "making wider roads is going to reduce traffic". Demand always increases to fill capacity.

The trick here is to remove demand from the system, not simply increase capacity. And that is where mass transportation enters the picture.

 

[Sugarcane]

Does not make much sense given Pakistan's economy to replicate the model from an oil rich country.

Dude, Purpose of BRT is to have formally separated right of way to avoid getting stuck in traffic. It has nothing to do with having oil, This is done to make mass transit faster and cheaper mean of travel in city to encourage people to use it instead of private vehicles. Now, in developed countries where people respect the traffic rules, drawing a line with paint is enough but that doesn't work in developing countries.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Traffic is increasing in Lahore and every other city is increasing everyday, forget that you will ever have empty roads no matter what you do. In mega cities of world, you will see many people using public transport despite having cars because it save them lot of time compare to traveling own car. So, we should better start rolling out comprehensive public transport network in big cities with proper planning.

in Lahore it is very difficult, keeping in view the historical locations, they have to think twice before demolishing any building

 

[war&peace]

Dude, Purpose of BRT is to have formally separated right of way to avoid getting stuck in traffic. It has nothing to do with having oil, This is done to make mass transit faster and cheaper mean of travel in city to encourage people to use it instead of private vehicles. Now, in developed countries where people respect the traffic rules, drawing a line with paint is enough but that doesn't work in developing countries.

Dude, I was referring to the cost of building dedicated and especially elevated tracks. Dedicated track still makes sense since it is not that expensive if corruption is eliminated but the elevated is too expensive and limits where the metro can go.

 

[Sugarcane]

in Lahore it is very difficult, keeping in view the historical locations, they have to think twice before demolishing any building

I don't have any idea of cost difference between elevated and underground metros but the places where widening roads are not possible, we should go underground.

 

[war&peace]

I don't have any idea of cost difference between elevated and underground metros but the places where widening roads are not possible, we should go underground.

Elevated road costs a lot more than a normal road because the cost of the structure / bridge to elevate the road is multiple times more than the road and then on top of it you can build the road as well.

 

[Sugarcane]

Elevated road costs a lot more than a normal road because the cost of the structure / bridge to elevate the road is multiple times more than the road and then on top of it you can build the road as well.

I was talking about cost difference between elevated and underground, because I have seen argument that elevated metro cost more than underground metro, SS made expensive elevated orange line train only for showoff like Dubai instead of cheaper underground.

I am more concerned about corruption, quality of infrastructure and utilization than it's on ground, elevated or underground.

 

[Jf Thunder]

I don't have any idea of cost difference between elevated and underground metros but the places where widening roads are not possible, we should go underground.

I doubt underground will be more cheaper than above ground, wasn't the Islamabad metro underground?