Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz opens Pandora Box on Kargil issue

[Paan Singh]

Lieutenant General Ali Kuli Khan Khattak accuses Pervez Musharraf of destruction of pakistan

Lt. General Tariq Pervez accuses Mushharaf of Deception

Lieutenant-General Jamshed Gulzar Kiani heavily criticizes Musharrafs policies

General Mirza Aslam Beg was disillusioned by Musharraf

I guess all of em were wrong

+

col.Ashfaq

gen Talat mahsood

former air chief Rashid Latif

All of them seems to be paid by india and mushy was pakistani harish chandra

 

[Screambowl]

yahan kargil khol kar baith gaye

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Why did he go to Washington, just to save his premiership? Why was his premiership at stake, wasn't he an elected and legitimate Prime Minister, even if he was incompetent and corrupt? PA soldiers were successfully holding their positions on the mountains and Indians were nowhere in a position to dislodge them, victory was almost achieved and then immediately Nawaz goes to Washington to meet Clinton. He comes back and Musharraf is asked to withdraw his forces. Being a law abiding soldier Musharraf (lol) had no other option but to accept the orders coming from a bloody civilian. This whole story doesn't make an iota of sense to me.

It doesn't make any sense because it is false.

Why did he go to Washington, just to save his premiership? Why was his premiership at stake, wasn't he an elected and legitimate Prime Minister, even if he was incompetent and corrupt? PA soldiers were successfully holding their positions on the mountains and Indians were nowhere in a position to dislodge them, victory was almost achieved and then immediately Nawaz goes to Washington to meet Clinton. He comes back and Musharraf is asked to withdraw his forces. Being a law abiding soldier Musharraf (lol) had no other option but to accept the orders coming from a bloody civilian. This whole story doesn't make an iota of sense to me.

It doesn't make any sense because it is false.

 

[GURU DUTT]

@Irfan Baloch : Irfan Bhai, please sum up the Kargil war for me :

(a) What was the objective ?

(b) What did we achieve ?

(c) What did we loose ?

(d) And why in God's name did we do it to begin with ?

If you permit sir i can tell u

(A) To regain Siachin & bring Kashmir cause to worlds attention(classic case of blackmailing the world while pointing a gun towards your own head)

(B) We Inetialli it was a great tactikal victory but PA & GOP dint have any clue how to sustain it (jayen to jayen kahan)

(C) godd question many things among few major are

1.Pakistan lost its credibilty as a responsible nation and just like after operation gibralter reatterated to the world how puny strategikk thinking Pakistani elite posesses

2. By naming Mujahideen as culprit the PA Lost mujhaideen's Favour as they were not consulted for ever and they grew suspecious of the PA's bigger game which was fortified after PA's full support to WOT and they became PA's anty party instead of strategikk assets(Miya ki juti miya ke sar)

3.Lost US as a big bro who n matter what always supported pakistan in any eventuality and they strted lookin towards as a more responsible ally than Pakistan and India benifitted a lot and started getting world attention as an able and responsible Nation

4.PA in its haste to cover up its tracks did many mistakes one of them not takin back bodies of its dead soldier which was a big blow to Armies moral in the long run and slowly but steadily general officers started loosing hope and respect for there seneor most officers which made Pa more undesiplinned and made the armies genral perception changed in eyes of both civilians and armed forces alike

5. serous diff arosed between Pakistani army , navy & airforce which is bad in terms of strategikk planning as in any future conflict all the parties will look towards there own interests more and will be highly doubtfull of each others goals and integrity

6.Politicians and Civillians would never take Armed forces as a holy cow in future and will never trust its armed forces

So In short ....NA TO KARWAAN HI MILLA NA WASAL E SANAM NA IDHAR KE RAHE NA UDHAR KE HUM

(D) It was done to derail Indo Pak peace process as army generals were fearfull of loosing its identity which is primerily based on Hate india specially after Sakoot E Dhakaa

 

[Armstrong]

@GURU DUTT : Guru Pahain kuch ziyadaa nahin ho giyaaa !

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Siachin is not demarcated like other parts of LOC.Pakistanis claim it coz routes only goes through pakistan while india have to air lift same.India objected many times to pakistan about patrols sent by pakistan on siachin.

thanks friend
you just verified my post.

a man with egos, and spreading lies, is this what our army has come to??

wants to sell his book in a cheap way like this?

truth my arse?? after 15 years?? was he sleeping before?



where is the military code to be implemented for foolish army people like these? i mean if they retired they arnt off from their obligations, this guy should be brought to the military courts and dealt will properly

the timing couldnt be more immaculate for PMLn, Mr Khan has already risked the right of succession of Raiwand dynasty so Business league will bring all the controversies they can to buy back the voters and remind them that like PPP they are the ones who should be ruling Pakistan.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Army has destroyed Pakistan not more but not less than Democratic govt.
.

thats right
your army and secret service did the same with more degree of success so everyone is happy with them apart from the ones that were on the receiving end.

saying that, Pak army has realized that its internal enemy is as dangerous if not more than India. hence this deadlock and a death spiral between terrorists and the Pakistan army for over a decade
A fight that it MUST win for the sake of whole region because consequences will be frightening

 

[Armstrong]

@Hyperion : Young man, your thoughts on this !

 

[Hyperion]

When elders talk @Irfan Baloch, I listen!

@Hyperion : Young man, your thoughts on this !

 

[Armstrong]

Army has destroyed Pakistan not more but not less than Democratic govt.

Radicalization, support to domestic terrorist groups like LeT, JeM, HM etc, to Taliban etc, which have become the reason for so much destruction of life and property along with bad image of Pakistan.

Politicians may be corrupt but Security situation affects the Economy much more than Corruption. Look at any nation.

If there is no major FDI or development in a region due to Security concerns, where is the scope of corruption.

I agree that the army has made some colossal blunders in the past & present but if you were to take off your blinders you'd understand the gravity of such a sweeping statement !

When elders talk @Irfan Baloch, I listen!

Irfan Bhai is probably your age or younger !

 

[Saleem]

thats right
your army and secret service did the same with more degree of success so everyone is happy with them apart from the ones that were on the receiving end.

saying that, Pak army has realized that its internal enemy is as dangerous if not more than India. hence this deadlock and a death spiral between terrorists and the Pakistan army for over a decade
A fight that it MUST win for the sake of whole region because consequences will be frightening

one needs to be honest --- only the false "politicians" are responsible --they appointed ineligible people for their own dishonest reasons and then ran away crying when they were kicked out ---the politicians destroyed every institution in the country this way --the present regime is the most vivid example ----if the politicians had appointed men of integrity to command this wold not have happened ---we saw in the case of waheed kakar when the constitution was balanced the president was able to dismiss the corrupt governments and waheed never launched a coup---remember this is time when nawaz cronies physically atatcked the supreme court ---ayub, yahya, zia, parvez, were all not eligible but were appointed with bad intentions and then the politicos got kicked out --only zulfiqar paid for his crimes [but his heirs wreaked and are wreaking a terrible vengeance] --the others got away scot free......

 

[KRAIT]

I agree that the army has made some colossal blunders in the past & present but if you were to take of your blinders you'd understand the gravity of such a sweeping statement !

Its not a sweeping statement. What PA is doing now, targeting terrorists, they could have done when they were running from Afghanistan. Now they have extended their depth in Pakistan. I have made the most practical post.

Not only security, this Polio epidemic and people ignorant of Iodine salt will show its effect after 5 to 10 years. It will create a whole new generation of deformed children which will be more than a burden on society. Its the long lasting effect of terrorism.
Believe me, you can't see it because its a slow process and a non-linear one. It will jump so high in such a less time that it would be very hard to control then and will require hell lot of resources.

Its the biggest blunder done by Pakistani Army by allowing these extremists for such a long time. This concept of Good Taliban will hurt Pakistan.

Look at today's bomb blast resulting in death of 22 Shias. No one is discussing it on any thread. I haven't posted it as I am not allowed. Its just feeding the simmering anger. God forbid if they took weapons to protect themselves.

For once, try to see what will be the result of insufficient action of Pakistani Army and Civilian govt., both current and long term effects.

thats right
your army and secret service did the same with more degree of success so everyone is happy with them apart from the ones that were on the receiving end.
saying that, Pak army has realized that its internal enemy is as dangerous if not more than India. hence this deadlock and a death spiral between terrorists and the Pakistan army for over a decade
A fight that it MUST win for the sake of whole region because consequences will be frightening

Sir I am not targeting PA just for sake of it. I agree India made huge mistake by supporting LTTE.

And I am more worried about my country because theremay be huge surge of terrorists attack in India too. I don't want 1990s era.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I think Hamid Mir (Jaffar) should lead the procession to the Indian high commission and apologize India for having to go through the trouble of breaking Pakistan and then having to occupy the Siachin heights and also apologize India for incurring the costs of issuing the Indian passport to Pakistan's most wanted terrorist

this guy was spreading rumors of Mosques being destroyed by Pakistan army on Sawat operation and was one of the most vocal opponents of war against TTP now he considers it a sin of Pakistan army to take the fight to its enemy which has caused it to loose its east wing and has actively supported insurgencies in Pakistan and has waged wars right from the partition.

the guy has no words for the successful completion fo Rah Nijat which left event he western military analysts speechless who thought that swat would be the "blanket in the river" for Pakistan. had TP not found willing hosts in Afghanistan then it would have been a history by now as well.

 

[Jango]

I think Hamid Mir (Jaffar) should lead the procession to the Indian high commission and apologize India for having to go through the trouble of breaking Pakistan and then having to occupy the Siachin heights and also apologize India for incurring the costs of issuing the Indian passport to Pakistan's most wanted terrorist

Good point you raised there.

Granted that Kargil wasn't a very well planned op, but why are we all forgetting that it was all initiated by India occupying Siachen?

As for Hamid Mir, less said about him the better. According to him, Lal Masjid, Swat op, everything is bad!!!

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Good point you raised there.

Granted that Kargil wasn't a very well planned op, but why are we all forgetting that it was all initiated by India occupying Siachen?

Siachen incident ......1984
Kargil War .............. 1999

Damn, you guys are slow in your response.

Ninja Edit: And even then, you admit that the op wasn't 'well planned'. Couldn't be because of lack of time, could it?