Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz opens Pandora Box on Kargil issue

[Bang Galore]

Former Lahore corps commander Lt General (r) Shahid Aziz has said that the Kargil war with India was an “unsound military plan based on invalid assumptions, launched with little preparations and in total disregard to the regional and international environment”.

In an op-ed in a local English daily, the former general said the Kargil adventure was “bound to fail”.

He said former army chief Pervez Musharraf put a tight lid over the programme and the very reason for such a calling must have been because the mission was a “total disaster”.

Gen (r) Musharraf even put on hold a study commenced by GHQ to identify issues of concern at the lowest levels of command three years after the Kargil fiasco.

“It certainly wasn’t a defensive manoeuvre. There were no indications of an Indian attack. We didn’t pre-empt anything; nothing was on the cards. I was then heading the Analysis Wing of Inter-Services Intelligence and it was my job to know. Our clearly expressed intent was to cut the supply line to Siachen and force the Indians to pull out,” the former general said in his op-ed piece.

“This was not a small result we sought and cannot be classified as a tactical manoeuvre, where no one other than the local commander needed to be aware,” he said.

“The entire planning and execution was done in a cavalier manner, in total disregard of military convention. In justification, to say that our assessment was not wrong, but there was, ‘unreasonably escalated Indian response’ is a sorry excuse for not being able to assess Indian reaction. Assumptions were made that they would not be able to dislodge us and the world would sit back idly.”

Aziz said Pakistani soldiers were made to occupy barren ridges, with hand held weapons and ammunition.

“There was no way to dig in, so they were told to make parapets with lose stones and sit behind them, with no overhead protection. The boys were comforted by their commander’s assessment that no serious response would come. But it did — wave after wave, supported by massive air bursting artillery and repeated air attacks. The enemy still couldn’t manage to capture the peaks, and instead filled in the valleys. Cut off and forsaken, our posts started collapsing one after the other, though the general publicly denied it.”

The former corps commander added that the operation never had the capacity to choke Siachen, adding that the country needlessly continued to indulge in bloody enterprises under the hoax of safeguarding national interest.

Kargil was Musharraf

 

[Bang Galore]

Putting our children in line of fire

Kargil, like every other meaningless war that we have fought, brings home lessons we continue to refuse to learn. Instead, we proudly call it our history written in the blood of our children. Indeed, our children penning down our misdeeds with their blood! Medals for some, few songs, a cross road renamed, and of course annual remembrance day and a memorial for those who sacrificed their tomorrow for our today; thus preparing more war fodder for our continuing misadventures. Since nothing went wrong, so there is nothing to learn. We shall do it again. We decide. You die. We sing.

Cut off from the reality of pain and affliction that would be brought upon the nation, the decision maker takes the course most suited to his whimsical ambitions. Possible hurdles are sidetracked, on the basis of ‘need to know’, or merely bulldozed. Never has there been an institutional decision for the bloodshed. And at the end of each fiasco, original objectives are redefined to cry, “Hurrah! We have won”.

Our leaders seek personal glory, and desire honour in the eyes of other nations. Sadly, that has become our definition of national honour; but how can we be respected when we have little self respect? So concerned have we become about how they perceive us that we openly deride our religion and all the social values that we once stood for.

The whole truth about Kargil is yet to be known. We await the stories of forgotten starved soldiers hiding behind cold desolate rocks, with empty guns still held in their hands. What stood them there could only be a love higher than that of life. Some refused to withdraw even when ordered, and stayed to fight the proverbial last man last round. Such precious blood spilled without cause!
Whatever little I know, took a while to emerge, since General Musharraf had put a tight lid on Kargil. Three years later, a study commenced by GHQ to identify issues of concern at the lowest levels of command, was forcefully stopped by him. “What is your intent?” he asked. His cover-up was revealed many years later, on publication of his book.

An unsound military plan based on invalid assumptions, launched with little preparations and in total disregard to the regional and international environment, was bound to fail. That may well have been the reason for its secrecy. It was a total disaster. The question then arises why was it undertaken? Were there motives other than those proclaimed, or was it only a blunder, as I had assumed for many years?

It certainly wasn’t a defensive manoeuvre. There were no indications of an Indian attack. We didn’t pre-empt anything; nothing was on the cards. I was then heading the Analysis Wing of Inter Services Intelligence and it was my job to know. Our clearly expressed intent was to cut the supply line to Siachen and force the Indians to pull out. This was not a small result we sought and cannot be classified as a tactical manoeuvre, where no one other than the local commander needed to be aware. General Musharraf himself writes, “800 sq kms of area was captured.... and it created strategic effects”. To say that occupying empty spaces along the Line of Control was not a violation of any agreement and came under the purview of the local commander is astounding. This area was with the Indians as a result of Simla Agreement, and there had been no major violation of the Line of Control since 1971.

The entire planning and execution was done in a cavalier manner, in total disregard of military convention. In justification, to say that our assessment was not wrong, but there was, “unreasonably escalated Indian response” is a sorry excuse for not being able to assess Indian reaction. Assumptions were made that they would not be able to dislodge us and the world would sit back idly.

There were no mujahideen, only taped wireless messages, which fooled no one. Our soldiers were made to occupy barren ridges, with hand held weapons and ammunition. There was no way to dig in, so they were told to make parapets with lose stones and sit behind them, with no overhead protection. The boys were comforted by their commander’s assessment that no serious response would come. But it did — wave after wave, supported by massive air bursting artillery and repeated air attacks. The enemy still couldn’t manage to capture the peaks, and instead filled in the valleys. Cut off and forsaken, our posts started collapsing one after the other, though the general publicly denied it.

The gung-ho mannerism, when there were no pressures, was cowed when lines started shrinking and the international setting became frightening. There was no will to stay the course. Media was hushed to silence, so that pulling out does not become a political issue. We will sing when our songs don’t tie us down.

The operation, in any case, didn’t have the capacity to choke Siachen. When this truth surfaced, the initial aim was quickly modified. Now the book reads, “I would like to state emphatically that whatever movement has taken place so far in the direction of finding a solution to Kashmir is due considerably to the Kargil conflict.” Glory be to the victors.

We continue to indulge in bloody enterprises, under the hoax of safeguarding national interest. How many more medals will we put on coffins? How many more songs are we to sing? And how many more martyrs will our silences hide? If there is purpose to war then yes, we shall all go to the battle front, but a war where truth has to be hidden, makes one wonder whose interest is it serving?
It must be Allah’s country, for who else is holding it afloat?!


The writer is a retired lieutenant general and former corps commander of Lahore.

Putting our children in line of fire | The Nation

 

[somebozo]

Well this is a symptoms which affect all countries where fundos have occupied seats of power..they think divine victory is granted to them and do not think otherwise. Mush was an active Jamati fundo until he lost the war and got a handle of reality!

 

[KS]

Lt Gen Shahid Aziz has a personal vengeance against Musharraf

This is pure political topi drama

Pakistan's only aim in Kargil was to sucessfully capture the super strategic Point 5353 which they did with ultra ease and two months of Indian efforts to recapture that peak was not sucessfull.

Thus this was a huge tactical and strategic victory which has left the very presence of Indian Army in J&K untenable..and since this was a huge victory the fighters were all NLI commandoes and Pak Army bravehearts -- not non-state actors.

Musharraf scored a huge coup (lol no pun intended) in terms of internationalizing the Kashmir dispute - the jugular vein of Pakistan.

==

Ok have I missed anything else ?

 

[Cherokee]

I hope Some Pakistani Does not call his own Retired General "Indian Stooge" or Discredit him on his viws just becuase it does not go with the popular one in Pakistan .

 

[KRAIT]

Well people still trust Musharraf and ignore his blatant lies.

I hope Some Pakistani Does not call his own Retired General "Indian Stooge" or Discredit him on his viws just becuase it does not go with the popular one in Pakistan .

Actually they will call it Political Stunt as Mushrraf may stand for elections in Pakistan.

 

[Tridibans]

Its one thing to have nationalistic feelings and patriotism. But, defending the wrongs and mistakes of your decision makers ultimately reflects the unwillingness to rectify and improve as a nation.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Putting our children in line of fire

Kargil, like every other meaningless war that we have fought, brings home lessons we continue to refuse to learn. Instead, we proudly call it our history written in the blood of our children. Indeed, our children penning down our misdeeds with their blood! Medals for some, few songs, a cross road renamed, and of course annual remembrance day and a memorial for those who sacrificed their tomorrow for our today; thus preparing more war fodder for our continuing misadventures. Since nothing went wrong, so there is nothing to learn. We shall do it again. We decide. You die. We sing.
Cut off from the reality of pain and affliction that would be brought upon the nation, the decision maker takes the course most suited to his whimsical ambitions. Possible hurdles are sidetracked, on the basis of ‘need to know’, or merely bulldozed. Never has there been an institutional decision for the bloodshed. And at the end of each fiasco, original objectives are redefined to cry, “Hurrah! We have won”.

Our leaders seek personal glory, and desire honour in the eyes of other nations. Sadly, that has become our definition of national honour; but how can we be respected when we have little self respect? So concerned have we become about how they perceive us that we openly deride our religion and all the social values that we once stood for.

The whole truth about Kargil is yet to be known. We await the stories of forgotten starved soldiers hiding behind cold desolate rocks, with empty guns still held in their hands. What stood them there could only be a love higher than that of life. Some refused to withdraw even when ordered, and stayed to fight the proverbial last man last round. Such precious blood spilled without cause!
Whatever little I know, took a while to emerge, since General Musharraf had put a tight lid on Kargil. Three years later, a study commenced by GHQ to identify issues of concern at the lowest levels of command, was forcefully stopped by him. “What is your intent?” he asked. His cover-up was revealed many years later, on publication of his book.

An unsound military plan based on invalid assumptions, launched with little preparations and in total disregard to the regional and international environment, was bound to fail. That may well have been the reason for its secrecy. It was a total disaster. The question then arises why was it undertaken? Were there motives other than those proclaimed, or was it only a blunder, as I had assumed for many years?
It certainly wasn’t a defensive manoeuvre. There were no indications of an Indian attack. We didn’t pre-empt anything; nothing was on the cards. I was then heading the Analysis Wing of Inter Services Intelligence and it was my job to know. Our clearly expressed intent was to cut the supply line to Siachen and force the Indians to pull out. This was not a small result we sought and cannot be classified as a tactical manoeuvre, where no one other than the local commander needed to be aware. General Musharraf himself writes, “800 sq kms of area was captured.... and it created strategic effects”. To say that occupying empty spaces along the Line of Control was not a violation of any agreement and came under the purview of the local commander is astounding. This area was with the Indians as a result of Simla Agreement, and there had been no major violation of the Line of Control since 1971.

The entire planning and execution was done in a cavalier manner, in total disregard of military convention. In justification, to say that our assessment was not wrong, but there was, “unreasonably escalated Indian response” is a sorry excuse for not being able to assess Indian reaction. Assumptions were made that they would not be able to dislodge us and the world would sit back idly.
There were no mujahideen, only taped wireless messages, which fooled no one. Our soldiers were made to occupy barren ridges, with hand held weapons and ammunition. There was no way to dig in, so they were told to make parapets with lose stones and sit behind them, with no overhead protection. The boys were comforted by their commander’s assessment that no serious response would come. But it did — wave after wave, supported by massive air bursting artillery and repeated air attacks. The enemy still couldn’t manage to capture the peaks, and instead filled in the valleys. Cut off and forsaken, our posts started collapsing one after the other, though the general publicly denied it.
The gung-ho mannerism, when there were no pressures, was cowed when lines started shrinking and the international setting became frightening. There was no will to stay the course. Media was hushed to silence, so that pulling out does not become a political issue. We will sing when our songs don’t tie us down.

The operation, in any case, didn’t have the capacity to choke Siachen. When this truth surfaced, the initial aim was quickly modified. Now the book reads, “I would like to state emphatically that whatever movement has taken place so far in the direction of finding a solution to Kashmir is due considerably to the Kargil conflict.” Glory be to the victors.

We continue to indulge in bloody enterprises, under the hoax of safeguarding national interest. How many more medals will we put on coffins? How many more songs are we to sing? And how many more martyrs will our silences hide? If there is purpose to war then yes, we shall all go to the battle front, but a war where truth has to be hidden, makes one wonder whose interest is it serving?
It must be Allah’s country, for who else is holding it afloat?!


The writer is a retired lieutenant general and former corps commander of Lahore.

Putting our children in line of fire | The Nation

While there have been foolish Generals in Pakistan like the erstwhile Commando Musharraf, there seem to be even thinking military professionals like Lt. Gen. Shahid Aziz who can separate the wheat from the chaff. And Gen. Shahid Aziz is not the only one, There have been numerous others who exposed the lunacy of embarking on a "half-baked" plan by Musharraf that just ended in an unmitigated disaster for the Pakistani Army and for Pakistan, both in military and diplomatic terms.

In the end the erstwhile Commando Musharraf was simply rendered "commando" (as in present usage of the english language)!

Commando: (noun)- a person who is found to be or who chooses to be found not wearing under-wear.

Musharraf as a soldier was no Manstein, Guderian or Rommel. He could not even hope to be a Von Moltke.
One view of an ex-PA Officer was that Musharraf rankled under the fact that that his sole operational military decoration was a 'Sanad-i-Imtiaz' and that he was perenially looking for that burst of Personal Glory.

All that happened in the process was the underlying principle of 'Izzat-o-Iqbal' which forms part of the raison d'etre of any professional Army was combusted when the soldiers of the Northern Light Infantry were disowned as a bunch of 'rag-tag shalwaar-kameez wearing Mujaheddin" and abandoned to get blasted into oblivion on the heights of Kargil.

That was a dark chapter in the history of the PA and for no fault of the PA. Just to serve the bloated ego of a Cowboy called Musharraf.

 

[Bang Galore]

Just to serve the bloated ego of a Cowboy called Musharraf.

The civilians will have to take some blame for it. Nawaz Sharif forced a highly capable & well regarded General (Jehangir Karamat) to resign & appointed the "commando". What is it that they say about Karma being a b.......

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Lieutenant General Shahid Aziz is a
retired Pakistan Army general who
served as the commander of the IV
Corps (Lahore) from December 2003 to
October 2005. After retiring from the
army, he was appointed Chairman of the
National Accountability Bureau, a post
he left in May 2007.
His illustrious military career has placed
him in pivotal posts during critical
periods in Pakistan over the last
decade. In 1998, he found himself
involved in Pakistan’s nuclear tests as
Director of Military Operations. During
the Kargil conflict of 1999, he served as
DG of the ISI’s Analysis Wing. That
same year, he was appointed to the role
of DG Military Operations where he
played a crucial role in the counter-coup
that brought President Musharraf to
power. After the events of 9/11, he was
serving as Chief of General Staff at GHQ
when the US deployed its forces to
Afghanistan. He finally retired from the
army in 2005 after having held the post
of Lahore Corps Commander for two
years.
Gen. Aziz is married and proud father
and grandfather to four children and four
grandchildren. He resides in Islamab.

Lt. Gen. Shahid Aziz | The Insider Brief

 

[Devil Soul]

here we go again, another thread on the same topic which have been debated to extreme.....

 

[KRAIT]

here we go again, another thread on the same topic which have been debated to extreme.....

Agreed. Same old rhetoric will soon start.

I would rather have a discussion if this statement is made for political purpose or not.

 

[MilSpec]

For pakistan: Kargil as an initial tactical infiltration was success....tactical support on both military and political fronts and the withdrawal were big disasters....

 

[Pakistanisage]

Well this is a symptoms which affect all countries where fundos have occupied seats of power..they think divine victory is granted to them and do not think otherwise. Mush was an active Jamati fundo until he lost the war and got a handle of reality!

I think you are getting delirious.

Mush drank Scotch Whiskey every night and slept with his poodle dogs at night.

That is not a profile of an Islamic Fundamentalist.

Get a grip on reality my friend.

 

[Rizwan Alam]

Well people still trust Musharraf and ignore his blatant lies.

Actually they will call it Political Stunt as Mushrraf may stand for elections in Pakistan.

If your Minister's statement about RSS was a political stunt then why this can't be?