Life in Pakistan in the eye of a Vietnamese

[Maula Jatt]

I spent the first 15 years of my life outside Pakistan so I came to this conclusion all on my own, though there might be another reason influencing this thought. My ancestors are from Indian Punjab, both my paternal and maternal ancestors were rich landlords in Ludhiana. They sacrificed everything to come to Pakistan. A lot of them got slaughtered by Sikhs of Indian Punjab while trying to enter Pakistan. Perhaps this influenced me to adopt a Pakistani identity and try to distance myself from the Punjabi identity. By the way, I don't have any hatred for ordinary present Indian Punjabis. Additionally, I never saw any glory in adopting the Punjabi identity and I still don't. In my opinion, despite being a pathetic country, Pakistan has achieved way more than all Punjabi empires combined so I feel way more pride in identifying as a Pakistani than a Punjabi.

As you stated in your second line, it is subjective.

Only thing I can say is half my family is from Indian Punjab, regular farmers and a chunk of that side of family was butchered, it's a cruel part of our family history
But that's no accuse to develop this complex, you're wrong and most of the world would call you out for it

Pakistan always comes first, always and Punjabi , Sindhi, Pashtun, Baloch, Gilgit's, Urdu speaking identities make up Pakistani identity, Pakistani identity is not exclusive of that, it's a combination of all- there's no separation

 

[HRK]

Surprisingly the women and female students there can chose if they want to wear headscarf or not.

Sorry but I am surprised that you are Surprised on this .... I mean I don't know what is the surprising factor in this. I am asking just to understand you POV

 

[_NOBODY_]

Reading this post is like getting sucker punched in your guts, it genuinely feels that way dude
@lastofthepatriots @M. Sarmad

Only thing I can say is half my family is from Indian Punjab, regular farmers and a chunk of that side of family was butchered, it's a cruel part of our family history
But that's no accuse to develop this complex, you're wrong and most of the world would call you out for it

Punjabi , Sindhi, Pashtun, Baloch, Gilgit's, Urdu speaking identities make up Pakistani identity, Pakistani identity is not exclusive of that, it's a combination of all- there's no separation

I don't harbour any hatred towards my ethnicity. But culturally, I find it hard to associate myself with them in fact, part of me straight up refuses to associate with them. My primary language will always be Urdu and it will have a place in my heart like no other. My apologies if my post offends you but this is how I feel.

 

[313ghazi]

Guys - of all the threads on the forum to play Punjabi vs Urdu in....

...

 

[TheSolution]

Yes she is.
Visiting a market in north Vietnam
Interesting, they switch between the languages. Vietnamese, English, Pakistani, Japanese.

Is she Muslim or she worse the scarf as respect for culture?

 

[Maula Jatt]

Guys - of all the threads on the forum to play Punjabi vs Urdu in....

...

I made a post on Vietnamese which I later deleted as it was offensive but I didn't appreciate the potshot at Punjabi in response which led to me and others involved in derailing this thread

A bunch of people on this forum casually put down our regional languages which is wrong, and I usually almost always ignore cause it ends up doing exactly what happened on this thread
All Pakistani languages, dialects are beautiful, cause they're ours, with deep history to em

Everyone should be careful when talking about em in a derogatory manner - that's all and now everyone can carry on with the thread, that's that from me

 

[TheSolution]

You are entitled to your opinion, I strongly disagree with you here.

Does this not sound feminine to you?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627044911462637568

Sounds incredibly similar to Urdu though in terms of grammar and flow

 

[_NOBODY_]

Does this not sound feminine to you?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627044911462637568

Sounds incredibly similar to Urdu though in terms of grammar and flow

lol no it sounds normal to me

 

[TheSolution]

I spent the first 15 years of my life outside Pakistan so I came to this conclusion all on my own, though there might be another reason influencing this thought. My ancestors are from Indian Punjab, both my paternal and maternal ancestors were rich landlords in Ludhiana. They sacrificed everything to come to Pakistan. A lot of them got slaughtered by Sikhs of Indian Punjab while trying to enter Pakistan. Perhaps this influenced me to adopt a Pakistani identity and try to distance myself from the Punjabi identity. By the way, I don't have any hatred for ordinary present Indian Punjabis. Additionally, I never saw any glory in adopting the Punjabi identity and I still don't. In my opinion, despite being a pathetic country, Pakistan has achieved way more than all Punjabi empires combined so I feel way more pride in identifying as a Pakistani than a Punjabi.

As you stated in your second line, it is subjective.

Fair but don't you think regardless of how much pride you may or may not feel, it's something which is a part of you which you can't just disown but rather embrace? I guess it's good to be proud of Pakistan but in the grand scheme of things it's quite hollow in terms of identity, it's simply a nationality incorporating 5 or so major ethnicities. As a country it's valid but as an identity anyone can become Pakistani through nationality, it has not much exclusivity or substance to it as how unique ethnic identities do.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Sorry but I am surprised that you are Surprised on this .... I mean I don't know what is the surprising factor in this. I am asking just to understand you POV

Mix of Indian campaigns on the internet targeting us as second coming of Taliban and association with Afghanistan after 9/11, terrorism didn't help either

People around the globe are actually clueless about Pakistani society, hell even our neighbors rely on tropes

Only Afghans truly know Pakistani society as they can travel to Pakistan and experience it

 

[_NOBODY_]

Fair but don't you think regardless of how much pride you may or may not feel, it's something which is a part of you which you can't just disown but rather embrace? I guess it's good to be proud of Pakistan but in the grand scheme of things it's quite hollow in terms of identity, it's simply a nationality incorporating 5 or so major ethnicities. As a country it's valid but as an identity anyone can become Pakistani through nationality, it has not much exclusivity or substance to it as how unique ethnic identities do.

This inclusivity is something that makes me take even more pride in this identity. I believe that we need to turn Pakistan into a new civilization and this will only happen due to continuous progress. Over time this will result in huge civic nationalism. They will be a reason to be proud of this civilization and culture evolves over time so in the future, we will have a strong and unique Pakistani culture. Merely taking pride in your ethnicity is the path that can lead to ethnic nationalism.

 

[TheSolution]

This inclusivity is something that makes me take even more pride in this identity. I believe that we need to turn Pakistan into a new civilization and this will only happen due to continuous progress. Over time this will result in huge civic nationalism. They will be a reason to be proud of this civilization and culture evolves over time so in the future, we will have a strong and unique Pakistani culture. Merely taking pride in your ethnicity is the path that can lead to ethnic nationalism.

If something is accessible to everyone and anyone, then it's value and overall worth decreases. I think allowing anyone and everyone to simply enter your country, get a nationality and buy land, is not inclusively, it is going out of your way to give them extra from what you have to offer. Inclusivity is having your doors open to everyone who would like to visit and spend time without discriminating. I would seriously think twice about this and speak to some people from the west who have experienced this said inclusivity first hand, and how it worked out for them.

Immigration countries have a lot of things wrong with them in my opinion due to several factors even down to genetic differences creating societal imbalances, psychological influence creating social problems, and others where certain sociocultures are a clash and cannot mix, and begin to create societal divides with no real fusion. Most of all it really just feels like a soft invasion of foreigners, especially when they don't adopt local customs and languages, and also look very different.

Appreciating diversity I think is best done when you don't forcefully try to merge it, rather let individual cultures and people thrive.

 

[Erieye]

This inclusivity is something that makes me take even more pride in this identity. I believe that we need to turn Pakistan into a new civilization and this will only happen due to continuous progress. Over time this will result in huge civic nationalism. They will be a reason to be proud of this civilization and culture evolves over time so in the future, we will have a strong and unique Pakistani culture. Merely taking pride in your ethnicity is the path that can lead to ethnic nationalism.

very naive thinking imo, this doesn't work irl, it's being tried and tested in the west and miserably failing due to things which are deeper than what we see at face value. also the western part of the country is completely against an idea like this - im referring specifically to pashtun lands.

secondly real cultural fusion never takes place, you create different ethnic classes never a single identity. "African American" , "Indian American", "British Pakistani" etc. these then create social divides based on racism, etc.

truly understanding our diversity means acknowledging that forcefully mixing every kind of race into an area without certain perameters being met will miserably fail.

homogenous societies are the best because they skip the above, skip the instability, and focus on development and increasing the quality of life. and also when allowing immigrants they should imo 1. Look similar to the native population to a degree. 2. Completely adapt to local culture. Otherwise in a way you basically hand your country over to foreigners, it's like an invasion without a fight.

 

[_NOBODY_]

If something is accessible to everyone and anyone, then it's value and overall worth decreases. I think allowing anyone and everyone to simply enter your country, get a nationality and buy land, is not inclusively, it is going out of your way to give them extra from what you have to offer. Inclusivity is having your doors open to everyone who would like to visit and spend time without discriminating. I would seriously think twice about this and speak to some people from the west who have experienced this said inclusivity first hand, and how it worked out for them.

Immigration countries have a lot of things wrong with them in my opinion due to several factors even down to genetic differences creating societal imbalances, psychological influence creating social problems, and others where certain sociocultures are a clash and cannot mix, and begin to create societal divides with no real fusion. Most of all it really just feels like a soft invasion of foreigners, especially when they don't adopt local customs and languages, and also look very different.

Appreciating diversity I think is best done when you don't forcefully try to merge it, rather let individual cultures and people thrive.

Pakistan is already a multicultural country, our cities are melting pots of different cultures so we have every reason to celebrate our diversity. You may have misunderstood my post, I never said that anyone should be granted citizenship. People who get citizenship must be beneficial to Pakistan and they must be fully integrated into the society before they are granted citizenship. The issues that you mentioned are due to a lack of enforcement of the law. Diversity works wonderfully in the gulf countries like the UAE, KSA and Qatar.

very naive thinking imo, this doesn't work irl, it's being tried and tested in the west and miserably failing due to things which are deeper than what we see at face value. also the western part of the country is completely against an idea like this - im referring specifically to pashtun lands.

secondly real cultural fusion never takes place, you create different ethnic classes never a single identity. "African American" , "Indian American", "British Pakistani" etc. these then create social divides based on racism, etc.

truly understanding our diversity means acknowledging that forcefully mixing every kind of race into an area without certain perameters being met will miserably fail.

homogenous societies are the best because they skip the above, skip the instability, and focus on development and increasing the quality of life. and also when allowing immigrants they should imo 1. Look similar to the native population to a degree. 2. Completely adapt to local culture. Otherwise in a way you basically hand your country over to foreigners, it's like an invasion without a fight.

Pakistan is currently not homogenous, look at the massive cultural differences between the provinces.

 

[TheSolution]

homogenous societies are the best because they skip the above, skip the instability, and focus on development and increasing the quality of life. and also when allowing immigrants they should imo 1. Look similar to the native population to a degree. 2. Completely adapt to local culture. Otherwise in a way you basically hand your country over to foreigners, it's like an invasion without a fight.

In European countries you'll find entire ethnic enclaves of foreigners who refuse to integrate with the country, and despise the natives. Then their TFR overtakes the native population, they adopt none of the native customs.

Also regarding how crime is dealt with, and the perceived social racism, it creates instability.

It's essentially opening your doors and allowing yourself to be conquered. I've not seen any real cultural fusion take place to be honest. The people immigrating must be open minded and respectful for it to work, willing to adopt local customs and perhaps religion. Even then I'd make the process of handing out nationalities more strict.

Pakistan is already a multicultural country, our cities are melting pots of different cultures so we have every reason to celebrate our diversity. You may have misunderstood my post, I never said that anyone should be granted citizenship. People who get citizenship must be beneficial to Pakistan and they must be fully integrated into the society before they are granted citizenship. The issues that you mentioned are due to a lack of enforcement of the law. Diversity works wonderfully in the gulf countries like the UAE, KSA and Qatar.

We share history and are essentially closely related in every regard, for good and bad. There's not much difference in the grand scheme of things between Punjabi and Sindhi, or a Pashtun and Baloch.

But I think going beyond that to bring in even more randoms perhaps from random countries and continents it becomes a little to much, way too diluted to feel unique in any sense.

But if you mean controlled smaller populations where you make sure they are fully integrated into our local customs, history and language, then perhaps. But I would be strict and not allow randoms, many people in the west are seething and coping about their countries and essentially entire ethnic enclaves which have been created that despise natives and don't integrate. I don't blame them honestly. Trust me you don't want that.