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Lies, damn lies, and China's economic statistics

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India PPP - USD 4 Trillion
China PPP -
Lower Limit - USD 6 Trillion
Upper Limit - USD 7.5 Trillion
The GAP in PPP becomes lesser then in Nominal terms.
good viewpoint, i think our gap is smaller than your evaluation.our food price is times higher than yours, and in Indian cities bus tickets is nearly free.so maybe we are poorer than India.do you agree?
 
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@Indo-guy
why not enjoy it as most other members do?

I do not agree with intention of posting this 3 day old article ...which itself has been picked up from some western tabloid ....

I knew that it was going to happen ...

Well I wanted to register my opinion ....and I know that article is based only on half baked carefully twisted facts
 
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India PPP - USD 4 Trillion

China PPP -
Lower Limit - USD 6 Trillion
Upper Limit - USD 7.5 Trillion

The GAP in PPP becomes lesser then in Nominal terms.

Govt macro data not reliable, says RBI
Partha Sinha, TNN
MUMBAI: The Reserve bank of India (RBI) has said it cannot make policy decisions relying on the data provided by the government. RBI governor D Subbarao said on Tuesday the central bank has been facing severe headwinds on multiple fronts because of the erroneous data published by the government-from advance estimates of GDP to revisions in industrial production (IIP) numbers to the preference of WPI over CPI as the measure for inflation.

"We are handicapped by the reliability of some of the basic data that we need to use in policy calculations," Subbarao said while speaking at RBI's Statistics Day, and warned that poor quality data could potentially mislead policy calculations. "We make policies in real time and if the provisional data that these are based on are inaccurate, the resultant policies can turn out to be sub-optimal choices," he said.

For example, in the post-Lehman era when RBI is in a high alert mode, there have been frequent revisions to data related to GDP, one of the most watched numbers for policy makers, investors and economists, not only within India, but also globally. Like in February 2010, the advance estimate for GDP growth for 2009-10 was pegged at 6.8%. Three months later, this was revised to 7.7% while in February 2011, the quick estimates pegged it at 9.1%-a change of over 40% within a year. "Therefore, policy that per force had to use information on advance estimate of GDP was fraught with the risk of underestimating the growth momentum," Subbarao said.

Economists outside of RBI with whom TOI spoke to also pointed out the problems they have been facing with the erroneous data published by the government. Given the recent track record of such data, these are seen with suspicion. But in the absence of any other alternative, they have to work with unreliable numbers.

A recent report by Siddhartha Sanyal of Barclays Capital pointed out a huge discrepancy between the rise in India's petroleum import bill and the rise in the crude oil prices. The report showed that there was a "surprising stagnation" in India's oil import bill since December 2010. "The average rise in the oil import bill was a mere 6% year-on-year during December 2010-April 2011, despite the fact that global crude oil prices rose more than 30% during that time," Sanyal said. "This raises doubts about the trajectory of India's oil import bill in the coming months," he added. Economists also pointed out some other recent incidents of serious lapses relating to publications of important economic data.

For example, in August 2010, the government's GDP growth data from the income side showed a stable growth of 8.8% while from the expenditure side it showed a miniscule growth of 3.8%. As questions were raised, within a couple of days, the GDP growth data from the expenditure side was revised to about 10%.

Economists also pointed out that of late weekly as well as monthly inflation data are regularly revised by a substantial margin, and mostly on the upside. This, in turn, fails to give analysts and policy makers the true state of the economy apart from hampering policy decisions, they said.

Govt macro data not reliable, says RBI - Times Of India

Federal Reserves Bank's statement carries more weight

Now we have an opinion from researchers at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. Their verdict? The statistics are pretty good.

The researchers compared Chinese government statistics with other economic measures that the researchers say are "less susceptible to official manipulation."

"Importantly, these models suggest that Chinese growth has been in the ballpark of what official data have reported. We find no evidence that recently reported Chinese GDP figures are less reliable than usual."
 
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that's why RMB hit the record high against US dollars and Indian rupee crash into worthless
 
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India admitted the mistake/error.

When did China admit its GDP is actually from 3.5 to 4.5 Trillion?

There is difference between numbers being inaccurate ....we know very well ....when things get bigger ..they get more and more inaccurate ....that does not mean everything is ' lie '

The title of this article as I elaborated here is based on phrase ...but reader gets totally different meaning ...

It implies that all data coming from China is 'manufactured' and is 'artificial. ..

western tabloids who have published this article are clever and cunning ....they have mixed two things ....
If you read article carefully it clrealy says that Chinese officials themselves admit that numbers are inaccurate ...
now you tell me isn't there difference between two ?

Offcourse these are numbers , estimates they will be always inaccurate ....
But to conclude that it's artificially inflated is another thing ....
 
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3 trillion!?

Ok, we are either the world's best liars or our gdp is really around the official number.

Ccp can't get legitamcy that way, china isn't north korea where lies like that actually works.

So one of two things, if we are around that number than good, if not and we are the best liars, then it wouldn't matter if it is real or not.


Btw at the brics meeting and the bank is talked about you can clearly see the massive difference in financial power between china and the rest.
 
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that's why RMB hit the record high against US dollars and Indian rupee crash into worthless

That's uncalled for ...reasons for rupees depreciation are manifold ....that does not mean indian economy is crashing ....

I have already posted detailed analysis for this on another thread in indian defence ....don't want to repeat here ...
similarly Currency hitting high against dollar also has nothing to do with progress of economy...very bad performing economies have higher than dollar value ....
So eventhough Chinese economy is doing exceptionally well .... and indian economy is not doing well ....don't use RMB appreciation and Rupee depreciation phenomenon here to support same ....because it's not correct ....
 
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That's uncalled for ...reasons for rupees depreciation are manifold ....that does not mean indian economy is crashing ....

I have already posted detailed analysis for this on another thread in indian defence ....don't want to repeat here ...
similarly Currency hitting high against dollar also has nothing to do with progress of economy...very bad performing economies have higher than dollar value ....
So eventhough Chinese economy is doing exceptionally well .... and indian economy is not doing well ....don't use RMB appreciation and Rupee depreciation phenomenon here ....because it's not correct ....

I agree that Chinese government artifically keeps the RMB low,if let it float up,China's GDP could be doubled.
 
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good viewpoint, i think our gap is smaller than your evaluation.our food price is times higher than yours, and in Indian cities bus tickets is nearly free.so maybe we are poorer than India.do you agree?

IF you insist so much I might agree.. :P
 
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GDP is measured by the value of US dollars,did you guys factor in the artifical depreciation of RMB by the Chinese government?US government suggest that RMB should be worth at least 40% more,what do you guys think,if that's the true value of RMB,China's GDP value should be almost doubled.
 
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Average annual income for a family in 2012 was 13,000 renminbi, or about $2,100.
released this week by Peking University

Any Chinese members want to respond to this?

I find it very hard to believe. Anyone who has been to Shanghai or Beijing would not say that these people are living on $5k per year. Insanity.
 
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Any Chinese members want to respond to this?

I find it very hard to believe. Anyone who has been to Shanghai or Beijing would not say that these people are living on $5k per year. Insanity.

Here's a Chinese member:

Shanghai's urban residents, with an average disposable income of 40,188 yuan (US$6,379) last year, earned the most among China's 21 provincial areas that have posted their income growth, according to the latest data.

Shanghai residents top of income table- China.org.cn

Shanghai is big and probably people in the center (downtown white collar district) earn more, but they do not represent a significant percentage of the labor force.
 
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Any Chinese members want to respond to this?
I find it very hard to believe. Anyone who has been to Shanghai or Beijing would not say that these people are living on $5k per year. Insanity.
haha,nice news,no need to respond to it.
it's a delicious dish for those who believe the manufacture will shift to other countries as our wages grow. look,how low income we have!
 
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