Let's get our nuclear weapons out of Turkey

[shhh]

Close lncirlik, ship back the Nuclear weapons problem solved

You need them.

Please take them already, we are tired of your endless bitching

If they did it, you will wish you hadn't say it.

Should i do something similar with Modi on an Indian thread?
Would you like that?
And this coming from a TTA.

No, this is coming from an Indian

 

[The SC]

Close lncirlik, ship back the Nuclear weapons problem solved

Look what has happened to Ukraine who gave up their soviet nuclear weapons ! you don't want that for Turkey, do you?

 

[xenon54 out]

The west has also thrown secular Turks under the bus by not showing enough support for the democracy in Turkey.
I mean we are talking about putschists who are working for someone who tried to overthrow secularism in Turkey all his life, west is acting like those people are innocent.
It was EU that applauded "victory of democracy" when Gülenists arrested Turkish generals in 2008 and now they are supporting them against the democratically elected goverment.
Even the secularists here started to question the role of Turkey in western camp, me included, it seems this alliance is damaging Turkey more than it helps and im not even counting the previous coup where CIA was reportedly involved.

The American support of this coup was acknowledged by the CIA Ankara station chief Paul Henze. After the government was overthrown, Henze cabled Washington, saying, "our boys [in Ankara] did it."[32] Henze denied American involvement in the coup during a June 2003 interview on CNN Türk's Manşet, but two days later Birand presented an interview with Henze recorded in 1997 which confirmed Mehmet Ali Birand's account.[33][34] The US State Department itself announced the coup during the night between 11 and 12 September: the military had phoned the US embassy in Ankara to alert them of the coup an hour in advance.[9]

 

[Indus Pakistan]

What is your problem with Turks

Non. I am rather pro Turk.

make the choice for the Turks?

Expressing my opinion and making choices for Turkey are two, entirely differant things. For start I am not even in a position to make "choces" for you or anybody else. I think that is more for Erdogan and the Turkish people to do.

As regards "Ummah" you have to understand my views are given with the Pakistani members in mind. As you say, rightly while Turkey and Pakistan have great friendship and may it grow stronger, however the fact is that there is no Ummah. Turk/Pak friendship is state to state. I clarify this because unfortunately many Pakistani members take that friendship as some silly basis on which to leverage the greater ummah brotherhood to include all other Muslims. This sort of thinking is retrogressive and not good. For you or Pakistan as most Turks will agree. I hope that helps.

You see Pakistan could learn at lot of Turkey. They respect Turkey and Turks could help by slowly weaning Pakistani's off the high horse of "ummahdom" as you know that it does not exist. Your history has taught you that. I cannot think of any better inspiration then Ataturk.

If Pakistan followed the Ataturk model it would go from strenght to strenghth. That trust me would be geat thing for Turkey. On both flanks of Iran two very significant powers would rise and that would represent new phenomenon in global politics. However all that is being prevented because Pakistan is hamstrung, it has it's one hand tied because policy is limited by the Ummah brigade inside Pakistan.

One sterling example is Israel. You know in Turkey that not recognizing Israel does not even given a penny's worth of sustenance to Palestinians. However on the contrary not recognizing Israel represents major opportunity cost. Simply recognizing Israel would make life that much more easier for Pakistan but the stubborn ummah brigade who represent the same dumb thinking that Ataturk overthrew in his major reforms of 1920s will not allow such a policy change in Pakistan.

Just like Ottoman Empire was in state of "progress arrest" by dumb forces when the Young Turks tried to pull Turkey into the modeern world which they succedded eventually under the great leadership of Ataturk who cleared out the old order, in Pakistan the old order still carries significant traction.

I would rather Pakistan imitate Turkey than Saudia Arabia - which unfortunately most do at the moment. I hope that makes sense. That would mean wholesale detoxifying the "ummah" myth and instead belief in secular state.

 

[usernameless]

@T-123456 Now this might be a very ignorant view of things in Turkey, but I read somewhere that even Airline flight crews and journalists are being rounded up for coup attempt. It seems a bit far-fetched to me that airlines would have any role in a coup attempt. So, such things do reinforce the idea that Erdogan is probably utilizing the failed coup opportunity to strengthen his grasp on power and settle scores. After all, you can get away with almost anything under the jingoism of nationalism and outside threats.

No, the point is that Gulenist cult members have infiltrated almost every segment of the society and state throughout the last 4 decades. There is even a very old video of Gulen instructing his men to stay silent and hide themselves until the time is ripe for a takeover of the institutes.

Judiciary - check
Police - check
Army - check
Media - check
Education - check
Business world - check
etc.

As a result, this organization can literally fabricate proof, arrest you, put you on trial and put you in prison through its own men in the institutes mentioned above and you probably would not even know that all those people working against you are their members. Their members must be rooted out, because they work mostly for their own cult and worship their leader Gulen. No state and society on earth would tolerate such organizations to infiltrate places where it doesn't belong. Wherever they are, their role must be investigated and arrested, if necessary. Infiltrating businesses until they take control over the business will mean they will use the business to finance their organization. As for the journalists, there are plenty of Gulen journalists in Turkey who are not journalists at all, but rather propagandists and making threats. Research the Gulen movement and ask yourself whether you would tolerate such an organization in India.

 

[dadeechi]

Understanding Indians' obsession with Turkey is easy, Turkey is Pakistan's friend and ally.

Simple as that.

For Indians, It does matter if Turkey is a friend or ally of Pakistan.

What matters is, if Turkey is a friend and ally of India or not. I would like to see Turkey to comeout and support India's NSG membership.

You have not met most Indians then

Did you meet most Indians?

Most Indians neither care for Pakistan nor Turkey. They only care about Bollywood...

 

[usernameless]

@usernameless Maybe you are right. Maybe Gulen leads a hydra-like organization which has infiltrated all other organizations in Turkey, but that doesn't mean USA is involved in the coup attempt. Sure, USA provides sanctuary to the top boss, but these sanctuary dynamics are quite complex and can't be oversimplified into meaning that giving sanctuary equates to giving support for activities. Governments tend to give sanctuary to prevent executions and hold a trump card for later. Also, once a sanctuary is granted, it is quite difficult to go back on your position and lose face. To give a simple example, Snowden was given sanctuary in Russia but that doesn't mean he was a Russian spy/double agent in the first place. India gives sanctuary to the Tibetan exiles but at the same time recognizes China's claim over Tibet. So, in my opinion, blaming everything on USA is a rhetoric by Erdogan to solidify his hold on power. Recently, Erdogan was losing popularity for a variety of reasons but the sudden emergence of a perceived threat from USA has been a boon for him.

See at least post 10 and 11 of this thread. Thinking that the US has never had involvement in 'regime changes' is really naive.

What solidifying are you talking about? the AKP (incl. Erdogan) has been elected constantly since 2002 or so, the party's popularity is massive and unseen before in Turkish politics, Erdogan would not need such a thing to solidify anything, it's against logic. Moreover, the next election is in 2019 (last one was in november 2015). What do you mean by 'losing popularity'? You're telling something new now. On the contrary, the AKP and the opposition are all opposed to the 'coup' and united against it. Everyone, from leftists to rightists, have big question marks about any direct and/or indirect support of the US and EU. Look, i don't mind if you're ignorant, but at least don't read news prepared and served by the Western mainstream propaganda machine and make claims about subjects you don't know well. Follow Dailysabah (pro-govt) and Hurriyetdailynews (anti-govt) if you want to follow news about Turkey. BBC, New York Times, CNN, Reuters etc. are not even worth to wipe my *** with, at least when it comes to Turkey, but now i wonder 'how trustworthy are they when it comes to other countries'. Therefore, I will never look at non-western countries through western mainstream media anymore.

 

[cloud4000]

And how are you so sure the CIA is not involved in such things? The hypocrisy of the US is well known. From supporting and making the Mujahideen in Afghanistan the good guys vs the Soviets and then declaring them terrorists later, from organizing coup in Iran against Mossadegh, organizing coup in Turkey (12 September) etc. All these are facts, which makes the CIA naturally very suspicious, to say the least. Add in the deliberate mud throwing of the Western politicians and media and we get a pretty solid indication who directly or indirectly supported the coup and see it succeed.

Yeah yeah, everything that happens in the ME is organized by Saudi Arabia and the gulf states. The US, though, is completely innocent, is merely playing the superman role and has absolutely no involvement in anything bad that happens, right? At least you made me chuckle, though, so thanks for that

From a collection of random facts about the CIA, you reach to the conclusion that the CIA was behind the coup in Turkey how exactly?

As for the mud throwing, it's a mutual given how much mud Erdogan slings towards the West. No, there's no love for Erdogan in the West, but doesn't they backed a coup just to topple someone they don't like. Chances, Erdogan's enemies are within Turkey, not outside it.

I am not making empty analyses here, you are talking to a guy who makes his searches multidimensional and good at these stuff both at university and after it. So, my friend, this is how it works, you can climb to the top but keeping this status is the hardest part. Unfortunately for the rest of the world that this is what Usa is doing good and keeping him still number 1. Let's have a look at Egypt, they toppled elected leader Morsi with a military coup. Sisi took the lead. Mursi, Muslim brotherhood, Erdoğan.. They were just too dangerous for Usa interests. The west sold multibillion $ arms to Egyptian army and today the IMF gave 12 billion $ credit to Egypt. Try connecting the dots, not 170+ IQ is required for this.

Obama, in his infinite wisdom, falling under the sway of Arab Spring, decided to abandon Mubarak, much to the consternation of Gulf states, and back elections, where Morsi was elected. If Morsi was too dangerous for US, it would never have abandoned Mubarak in the first place.

And I don't see how this is any way connected to the coup in Turkey or the allegations that the CIA was behind it.

I think you need to return to university and fine tune your analytical skill. You are just engaging in conspiratorial nonsense to defend your man Erdogan.

Im not an Erdogan supporter,you could say that im anti Erdogan.
You dont know the history of the previous Turkish coups,so why are you talking like you know everything about my country?
Your delusion is obvious,you have something against Turkiye but let me tell you something,we dont care.
As for the nukes,what difference does it make if they are in Turkiye or not,we are allies and in case of a nuclear threat,the US will use them against our enemies.

I don't have anything against Turkey, but I do have issues with Erdogan, who is the main cause of this rift. I don't know where you got this idea.

 

[usernameless]

From a collection of random facts about the CIA, you reach to the conclusion that the CIA was behind the coup in Turkey how exactly?

As for the mud throwing, it's a mutual given how much mud Erdogan slings towards the West. No, there's no love for Erdogan in the West, but doesn't they backed a coup just to topple someone they don't like. Chances, Erdogan's enemies are within Turkey, not outside it.

Connect the dots. It's hypocritical to ask for hard facts when it comes to Turkey, but when it comes to Western politicians and media, they are not shy to blame Turkey with supporting/founding isis or saying that Turkey is turning away from secularism without any hard evidence. However, when it comes to the CIA, we see that this organization has been active in other 'regime changes' across the world, which makes it naturally suspicious for us. Believe me, we don't need an boogeyman and neither are we stupid, if we suspect the CIA, then there are reasons for it. All things considered, for example post 10 and 11 in this thread, it shows we have the right to place CIA on the suspect list.

Erdogan is merely responding, it was the Western media that always has been hypocritical and full with lies towards Turkey, more so in the recent years. No wonder that Anti-Americanism and anti-EU is high and rising among the public in Turkey, we now just have a leader that dares to speak out straightforwardly against them. That's what you think, but the US and EU only look for their interests, democracy and freedom is just a veil when it comes to their interests. Had the coup succeeded, you shall see how pro the US and EU would have been and justified the coup. By the way, how old are you? If you still naively believe the US and the CIA have not done things like regime changes favoring themselves in the world, then you are simply ignorant and/or too naive.

Those Gulenists are not only Erdogan's enemies, but all political parties and the Turkish society. Says enough how misinformed and wrongly you see the events happening in Turkey.

 

[Timur]

Why do you think NATO would still need Turkey when Turkey is flirting with SCO, Russia & China?

Today, Turkey is at the same cross roads as Pakistan

The usefulness of both Turkey and Pakistan for NATO are decreasing by the day.

wtf dufde...

whats wrongs with you.. us germany frane etc have far more flirts with them than turkeys whole economy..

but you seem to have the attitude let the slave be my slave no one should even look at it..

 

[dadeechi]

wtf dufde...

whats wrongs with you.. us germany frane etc have far more flirts with them than turkeys whole economy..

but you seem to have the attitude let the slave be my slave no one should even look at it..

I have nothing to do with Turkey. How do I care?

US, Germany, France may have economic relations with China but they do not plan to be part of SCO.

NATO and SCO cannot go Hand-in-Hand.

Turkey needs to choose which way it wants to go.

China has put Iran's SCO application on hold temporarily to allow Turkey to make a decision and join SCO along with Iran.

SCO itself would have two major groups to balance the decision making

China+ Pakistan+Turkey = Russia+India+Iran

 

[Serpentine]

After losing their most important ally in ME in 1979 (Iran), western countries are doing everything they can to push Turkey further towards east. I mean what is wrong with them? Do they really want to see Turkey off their list of allies too? Geo-politically, Turkey is most important western ally in MENA region, more important than KSA, Israel or Egypt. I wonder why they like to push Turkey away. It's hard to digest that over one single old man (Gulen), west is ready to ruin relations with Turkey. Something much bigger than Gulen should be involved.

 

[cloud4000]

Connect the dots. It's hypocritical to ask for hard facts when it comes to Turkey, but when it comes to Western politicians and media, they are not shy to blame Turkey with supporting/founding isis or saying that Turkey is turning away from secularism without any hard evidence. However, when it comes to the CIA, we see that this organization has been active in other 'regime changes' across the world, which makes it naturally suspicious for us. Believe me, we don't need an boogeyman and neither are we stupid, if we suspect the CIA, then there are reasons for it. All things considered, for example post 10 and 11 in this thread, it shows we have the right to place CIA on the suspect list.

Being suspect doesn't make a person guilty, not without evidence. And if you say CIA is a suspect in the coup, it's also possible it had nothing to do with it.

By the way, how old are you? If you still naively believe the US and the CIA have not done things like regime changes favoring themselves in the world, then you are simply ignorant and/or too naive.

I grew up during the Cold War, so the CIA getting blamed for coup or war is nothing new.. You are just the latest in many that came before to blame the CIA.

And no. I'm not naive to believe the CIA was not involved in some nasty business in its history. But I'm not ignorant enough to jump to conclusions like you have. I'm just waiting for the evidence to emerge. May be you are right and I'm wrong. We'll see.

 

[bsruzm]

what is wrong with them?

Collapse.

 

[damm1t]

Obama, in his infinite wisdom, falling under the sway of Arab Spring, decided to abandon Mubarak, much to the consternation of Gulf states, and back elections, where Morsi was elected. If Morsi was too dangerous for US, it would never have abandoned Mubarak in the first place.

And I don't see how this is any way connected to the coup in Turkey or the allegations that the CIA was behind it.

I think you need to return to university and fine tune your analytical skill. You are just engaging in conspiratorial nonsense to defend your man Erdogan.

Lol.. that bolded part is what I am trying to explain, anyway it seems everything we say here conspiration to you and the USA is as innocent as a newborn. Keep sleeping.