Leaked info about J20, AC and 055 destroyer of PLA!

[AgentOrange]

Quite frankly...Yes,I am actually 'only' a German "China aviation enthusiast (my wife thinks even more a "China-aviation fanatic"), and that since decades ...should this reduce my credibility, then it is sadly just so !

By the way ... these are my works so far (sorry for this small advertisement):

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2. Dragon's Wings
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Deino

It doesn't matter where you're from. Fact is, you are the *most* authoritative source on the PLAAF and Chinese warplane development outside of China. Period.

And there's a reason you're held in such high esteem on multiple military forums. No one has come close to the amount of work and research you've done. Keep on keepin' on!

 

[DrSomnath999]

Are you a German military enthusiast about the PLAAF or you are a Chinese expatriate in Germany?

bwaaahhaaa

we really dont know who he is? atleast i dont know him for sure
may be you should buy combat aircraft monthly magazine you might know who really is he ??

CHEERS

 

[AgentOrange]

Are you a German military enthusiast about the PLAAF or you are a Chinese expatriate in Germany?

Why does that matter? Bro, he's not trying to smear China or anything. Deino states the truth about Al-31s in the J-20. Let's not allow ourselves to be blinded by patriotism. Cheers buddy.

 

[Deino]

It doesn't matter where you're from. Fact is, you are the *most* authoritative source on the PLAAF and Chinese warplane development outside of China. Period.

And there's a reason you're held in such high esteem on multiple military forums. No one has come close to the amount of work and research you've done. Keep on keepin' on!

Thank You all ... that really made my day.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

bwaaahhaaa

we really dont know who he is? atleast i dont know him for sure
may be you should buy combat aircraft monthly magazine you might know who really is he ??

CHEERS

I don't read those western military magazines.

Why does that matter? Bro, he's not trying to smear China or anything. Deino states the truth about Al-31s in the J-20. Let's not allow ourselves to be blinded by patriotism. Cheers buddy.

Not the blind patriotism, but something has to be kept in confidential.

This is the mandatory duty for all Chinese military fans.

It doesn't matter where you're from. Fact is, you are the *most* authoritative source on the PLAAF and Chinese warplane development outside of China. Period.

And there's a reason you're held in such high esteem on multiple military forums. No one has come close to the amount of work and research you've done. Keep on keepin' on!

We have tons of counter arguments to prove that this engine is not a modified AL-31.

However, we have to keep something in confidential, especially in those foreign English speaking forums.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

the 'He' was meant the guy who I got those infos from, it wasnt you,````that 'guy' was asked by others whether J-20s were using Russian engines, he did not give an absolute answer, but only mentioned that J-20s fly with modified domestic engines```i hope this clears your confusion ?


no, thats not leaked info``it is rumor, WS-15 is not even up for the air test yet, as far as I know```but ground test is quite smooth and coming to completion

The prototype No. 2013 has different engine from the previous ones according to our PLAAF Senior Colonel, and he is also a legendary pilot.

But right now he cannot tell too much because of the confidentiality.

徐勇凌：歼20战机试飞工作还将向前推进 -20141203军情解码-凤凰视频-最具媒体品质的综合视频门户-凤凰网

 

[Deino]

I don't read those western military magazines.
Not the blind patriotism, but something has to be kept in confidential.
This is the mandatory duty for all Chinese military fans..

Regarding a "mandatory duty" here I really don't agree with You. I don't think neither China's security nor integrity will be affected if an aviation enthusiast finds out like the question about a certain fighter's engine.

We have tons of counter arguments to prove that this engine is not a modified AL-31.
However, we have to keep something in confidential, especially in those foreign English speaking forums.

Hmmm ... since in real live I'm a teacher for Chemistry I still believe more in the scientific research by close observation and logic to come to an conclusion. That does not mean I'm always correct, but usually it is a better way than listening to rumors and again I have my observations that tell me it is an AL-31FN while so far everything in regard to a WS-10 is plain rumor; honestly NONE of them is near close to a Gram of "counter arguments"; sorry.

At least - and that's indeed a pity since I can't understand Chinese (like in this video) - I would like to ask You to tell me what's these arguments !! Please. So far I only heard that this and that source is quite reliable, but no-one showed or explained me these counter-arguments even more in direct comparison to the other arguments. As such please do me that favor and explain.

Anyway if You think so and if You feel to have better sources then You might be correct and in the end time will tell.

The prototype No. 2013 has different engine from the previous ones according to our PLAAF Senior Colonel, and he is also a legendary pilot.

But right now he cannot tell too much because of the confidentiality.

徐勇凌：歼20战机试飞工作还将向前推进 -20141203军情解码-凤凰视频-最具媒体品质的综合视频门户-凤凰网

Again ... I don't think so. If You simply compare all images we have, both engines are exactly the same at least externally. So maybe simply another AL-31FN-version.

I sadly can't understand what they say but even in CCTV several of these reporters do not know much more than an average forums-reader. IMO mostly they get their information from the same sources like we. Even more if there's a special guest like a "legendary pilot" they also do not tell the truth every time since they are not allowed to do. As such I would take this as an deliberately spread rumor to lead away from the facts.

Additionally that J-20 CG-model shown alone in the first seconds is even less reliable ... so not much more credibility for a "new engine" IMO.

But again only my opinion.
Deino

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Again ... I don't think so. If You simply compare all images we have, both engines are exactly the same at least externally. So maybe simply another AL-31FN-version.

Dude, that nozzle looks somewhat similar to AL-31F or 117S because it is a 3D TVC nozzle. Of course, they all bear some similarities.

But the engine itself it is different.

Here is the different 3D thrust vectoring nozzles between the US/Russia/China.



US

Russia

China

I sadly can't understand what they say but even in CCTV several of these reporters do not know much more than an average forums-reader. IMO mostly they get their information from the same sources like we. Even more if there's a special guest like a "legendary pilot" they also do not tell the truth every time since they are not allowed to do. As such I would take this as an deliberately spread rumor to lead away from the facts.

Additionally that J-20 CG-model shown alone in the first seconds is even less reliable ... so not much more credibility for a "new engine" IMO.

But again only my opinion.
Deino

That channel is not CCTV, but BTV (Beijing Television), which is a regional TV channel from Beijing.

That special guest was the first pilot who flied the J-10 prototype, of course he is a legend in the PLAAF.

 

[Deino]

Dude, that nozzle looks somewhat similar to AL-31F or 117S because it is a 3D TVC nozzle. Of course, they all bear some similarities.
But the engine itself it is different.
Here is the different 3D thrust vectoring nozzles between the US/Russia/China.
...
China
View attachment 183487

So You really think that they managed to build an AL-31FN-style nozzle around a completely different engine or even more behind a WS-10 ??!

Sorry, but even if these nozzles are overall quite SIMILAR to an uninformed observer - as uninformed like my wife - they are indeed quite different. Even more different than the J-20's exhaust is to a regular AL-31FN, and that's my point.

Anyway the current J-20's engine are surely not a TVC-type.

That channel is not CCTV, but BTV (Beijing Television), which is a regional TV channel from Beijing.
That special guest was the first pilot who flied the J-10 prototype, of course he is a legend in the PLAAF.

Thanks ... but due to the reasons I mentioned this alone does not make him more reliable to tell the truth in TV. He surely know what engine it is but if he tells it in public that's a different thing.

Therefore I think we should end this discussion: I would not persuade You and You won't persuade me and we both agree to disagree.

Deino

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So You really think that they managed to build an AL-31FN-style nozzle around a completely different engine or even more behind a WS-10 ??!

Sorry, but even if these nozzles are overall quite SIMILAR to an uninformed observer - as uninformed like my wife - they are indeed quite different. Even more different than the J-20's exhaust is to a regular AL-31FN, and that's my point.

Anyway the current J-20's engine are surely not a TVC-type.

Of course it does have the 3D TVC nozzles, otherwise how it can manage to perform this?

It does have TVC, otherwise we are going to waste our time according to our military expert.

Since the prototype No.2011, we need to install the 3D thrust vectoring nozzles for the experiment.

Also, a different engine, since the No.2011 has the modified aerodynamic structure in its underneath rear part to accommodate two thinner built engines. I guess the thinner engines should mostly have a lower bypass ratio.

See how the new J-20 has a skinny waist compared to the original prototype, because the aerodynamic structure has been modified to accommodate a new thinner engine with the lower bypass ratio.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Therefore I think we should end this discussion: I would not persuade You and You won't persuade me and we both agree to disagree.

Deino

Although we have the disagreement about the engine issue.

Nevertheless, I still appreciate your passion for our PLAAF, and I also respect you personally as a poster.

 

[Deino]

Of course it does have the 3D TVC nozzles, otherwise how it can manage to perform this?

Sorry again, but there's simply one AB fully open, while the other one is closed. Even the old F-14 had this strange detail since the beginning but that is not a sign of TVC, surely not.

It does have TVC, otherwise we are going to waste our time according to our military expert.

Since the prototype No.2011, we need to install the 3D thrust vectoring nozzles for the experiment.

Also, a different engine, since the No.2011 has the modified aerodynamic structure in its underneath rear part to accommodate two thinner built engines. I guess the thinner engines should mostly have a lower bypass ratio.

See how the new J-20 has a skinny waist compared to the original prototype, because the aerodynamic structure has been modified to accommodate a new thinner engine with the lower bypass ratio.

No, no and no again ! how should a smaller, slimmer engine with a lower bypass-ratio have a higher thrust ??? Just look at the F119 in the F-22 and its development the F135 in the F-35. The latter has a wider diameter and an tremendously increased thrust. YES, the new 201x-prototypes have a few details that differ in that regard but surely not a slimmer engine.

Although we have the disagreement about the engine issue.
Nevertheless, I still appreciate your passion for our PLAAF, and I also respect you personally as a poster.

Me too !

Any way I will end this debate ... You have Your opinion and I have mine,.

All the best,
Deino

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Sorry again, but there's simply one AB fully open, while the other one is closed. Even the old F-14 had this strange detail since the beginning but that is not a sign of TVC, surely not.




No, no and no again ! how should a smaller, slimmer engine with a lower bypass-ratio have a higher thrust ??? Just look at the F119 in the F-22 and its development the F135 in the F-35. The latter has a wider diameter and an tremendously increased thrust. YES, the new 201x-prototypes have a few details that differ in that regard but surely not a slimmer engine.




Me too !

Any way I will end this debate ... You have Your opinion and I have mine, sadly is only that You so far did not deliver even a single proof.

All the best,
Deino

Sure, I like the controversial debate, but let's just stop here by now.

 

[gambit]

Of course it does have the 3D TVC nozzles, otherwise how it can manage to perform this?

View attachment 183489

It does have TVC, otherwise we are going to waste our time according to our military expert.

If there is a god for aviation, he must have rolled his eyes so bad...

Asymmetric nozzle positions on a twin engine fighter jet does not mean there is thrust vectoring capability. Each engine have its own nozzle authority and control processes independent of its companion. Each engine monitors its own internal condition, from fuel flow to temperature then add in throttle setting, to calculate the best nozzle opening. For the image you posted, that degree of difference may NOT be a good thing, especially on take-off and landing situations where you want minimal yaw. You do not want asymmetric thrust to compensate for lateral wind, for example, but rather uses the vertical stabs.

 

[Ultima Thule]

we all knows nothing about which engine is used by J-20, it's may be AL-31, 117s or WS-10G, WS-15, it is just all rumors