LCA Tejas MK 1 VS Gripen C/D

[HariPrasad]

Today its under development, but in 2020 it would be very different air craft, mark my words.

Your Previous 2 posts were fantastic though i may not agree on some point. I want to congratulate you for that.

Can you please elaborate above statement? Particularly what do you mean by "but in 2020 it would be very different air craft"?

 

[Kompromat]

@HariPrasad

JF-17 Started of as a 'force multiplier' on the drawing board.

Today it can take out ground and surface targets 250kms away without intruding into a 'hot battlespace' or an eney territory. Today it carries BVRAAMs, Stand Off weapons, GPS guided PGMs, IR guided cruise missiles, soon it will carry HOBS missiles and HMS, it can refuel in the air and communicate with AEW&Cs and other assets in real time.

The point is that by 2020 Tejas will see a similar evolution and it will become a multi role platform by then rather than a light force multiplier.

 

[kingdurgaking]

@HariPrasad

JF-17 Started of as a 'force multiplier' on the drawing board.

Today it can take out ground and surface targets 250kms away without intruding into a 'hot battlespace' or an eney territory. Today it carries BVRAAMs, Stand Off weapons, GPS guided PGMs, IR guided cruise missiles, soon it will carry HOBS missiles and HMS, it can refuel in the air and communicate with AEW&Cs and other assets in real time.

The point is that by 2020 Tejas will see a similar evolution and it will become a multi role platform by then rather than a light force multiplier.

Simply being an Indian is not my criteria to disagree with your points.... Tejas in the current form is a very potent aircraft... it has met the standard or surpassed the current mirage standard in IAF before upgard with a lower power plant... MK2 will be surpass mirage with upgrade on capabilities which the IAF has seen coming which is why they opted for a heavier MMRCA then the original Mirage standard.

 

[Last Samuri]

My First post forgive me if i upset anyone.

i like the description of lighweight force multipler by Aeronaut. apt description.

Tejas is the most modern fighter in the indian airforce especially its airframe and flight control.

jf17 and gripen are much smaller and much lighter than f16/j10 by 25%...

tejas imo is in same class as gripen & thunder in terms of size and potential capability.

j10 and f16 are bigger warplanes and more potent

 

[sancho]

IMHO Gripens are in the same weight class as the Mirage 2000, JF-17s, J-10s and F-16s.

Advanced trainer / light attack - Yak 130, JL 8, T50,
Light single engine MRCA - Gripen C/D, JF 17 B1 &2, LCA MK1
Medium single engine MRCA - Gripen E/F, Mirage 2000, F16, J10

F/A-50 Is a 'fighter' air craft.

Both F/A-50 and and Tejas are 'LCAs'

Other jets that i mentioned are 'Medium Weight' fighter air crafts.

EDAS once wanted to build an LCA called MAKO.

The FA50 is a light attack varient of the advanced trainer, while Tejas is designed and developed as a combat fighter, which downgraded can be used as a advanced trainer too, same reason why Boeing now teams up with Saab to offer the Gripen as an advanced trainer offer for US forces.

I know this will not go anywhere if we dont stick to its role in their respective forces, like @sancho said.

Don't take it too seriously, he is obviously only on a troll run again.

 

[Manindra]

@HariPrasad

JF-17 Started of as a 'force multiplier' on the drawing board.

Today it can take out ground and surface targets 250kms away without intruding into a 'hot battlespace' or an eney territory. Today it carries BVRAAMs, Stand Off weapons, GPS guided PGMs, IR guided cruise missiles, soon it will carry HOBS missiles and HMS, it can refuel in the air and communicate with AEW&Cs and other assets in real time.

The point is that by 2020 Tejas will see a similar evolution and it will become a multi role platform by then rather than a light force multiplier.

Which specification you would be bought in JF-17 , tejas Mark 1 already posses in FOC.
Tejas is already a multirole fighter.

 

[Kompromat]

You obviously failed to understand my point.

 

[Last Samuri]

I Think Aeronaut using the words Force Multipler and JF17 are not quiet correct.

A combat fighter giving true force multiplers would much heavier twin engined MR fighters.

ie Flankers Typhoons Rafales or F18 / F15 by virtue of operational range and the potential firepower in a single sortie.

Whilst a JF17 can carry BVR , or a stand off missle it cant carry all these simultaneously and can only travel half the range of the above. 20 tonne+ fighters.

At 12 tonnes and below JF17 & lca gripen are destined to forfill different roles completely ie light force multipler with the bigger F16s being their mainstay strike fighter

 

[holysaturn]

I dont know why people are still discussing the utility of the LCA as a swing role fighter. Tejas is currently as good as and in many cases better than the mirage-2000.
1.Has higher thrust to weight ratio than the mirage(which somewhat offsets the energy bleed problem of a delta wing,again higher than the jf-17)
2.With more powerful engines come higher climb rate vis-a-vis the mirage.(again more than the jf-17)
3.Lower wing loading than the mirage(critical for high altitude maneuverability,again jf-17 has poor wing loading leading to degraded high altitude performance)
4.More efficient engines than the mirage and jf-17(I remember a pilot say that the 404 literally sips fuel).
5.Superior FCS to both mirage and jf-17.(according test pilots its better than the mirage)
6.AoA tested upto 24 but cleared for 22 will be 26-28 in FOC(which will again be equal to or better than the mirages 26deg,and f-16 which has a similar layout as jf-17 is known to have lower AOA than the mirage so naturally jf-17 AOA might be lower )Hell even rafale AoA is 27.
7.Ease of maintance,RCSwe have a winner hands down with the 404 engine and composites.
8.Avionics ADA has put in some fine technologies there with the proven 2032 radar,ODL,RLG nav attack,mayavi(dont about jf-17 avionics but the current LCA must be a good match for the mirage)
9.Weapons, python,r-73,derby(more than a match for the mica) are long proven but sd-10 is not yet popular among exports and amraam hasnt been cleared for jf-17 I suppose as there are no reports yet.

The one area jf-17,mirage have a clear edge is they are ahead in internationalization,have better doctrines framed by now and as they are the "do all" fighters for their air forces(PAF,french AF) their weapons fit is more diverse than the LCA where as IAF has other platforms for SEAD,interdiction,long range air dominance.

And this is for the ones who say that the relevance of the induction of 4th gen tejas in 2020 to 2030 period as fifth generation fighters will be mainstay please watch this video

Stealth is just a scam ,you compromise too much on performance for a gain which can be easily eroded by new gen radars. This is evident from the fact that f-16s,f-15e,rafales,typhoons,gripens are here to stay through 2035 to 2040 with major upgrades. So future aircraft should maintain a balance between all capabilities(affordability in procurement and maintenance ,agility,avionics,RCS) like t-50 so in that case tejas will remain contemporary for decades to come as it evolves and the same can be said to jf-17 and j-10.

 

[Last Samuri]

Shocking i dont believe its a clear failure i,m sure the USA DOD will have done some homework before committing to a $200m dollar plane x 1200

 

[HariPrasad]

@HariPrasad

JF-17 Started of as a 'force multiplier' on the drawing board.

Today it can take out ground and surface targets 250kms away without intruding into a 'hot battlespace' or an eney territory. Today it carries BVRAAMs, Stand Off weapons, GPS guided PGMs, IR guided cruise missiles, soon it will carry HOBS missiles and HMS, it can refuel in the air and communicate with AEW&Cs and other assets in real time.

The point is that by 2020 Tejas will see a similar evolution and it will become a multi role platform by then rather than a light force multiplier.

Except Sand off weapon, I do not see JF 17 carry any of the advantage. In weight carrying, Thrust to weight, RCS, Radar, AOA and all other parameters you may say, Tejas has an uper hand. When miniaturize version of Brahmos or A to G version of Prahar shall integrated with Tejas, Jf 17 will loose its sole advantage which it has over Tejas right now. In its Pre IOC test, Tejas has demonstrated some significant capabilities which so many inducted planes lacks.

 

[gslv mk3]

Except Sand off weapon, I do not see JF 17 carry any of the advantage. In weight carrying, Thrust to weight, RCS, Radar, AOA and all other parameters you may say, Tejas has an uper hand. When miniaturize version of Brahmos or AOG version of Prahar shall integrated with Tejas, Jf 17 will loose its sole advantage which it has over Tejas right now. In its Pre IOC test, tejas has demonstrated some significant capabilities which so many inducted planes lacks.

Brahmos is too heavy for even the MKI

 

[HariPrasad]

Brahmos is too heavy for even the MKI

i refer to miniaturize version of brahmos. Pl do not forget that LCA currently carries 2 1200 liters external kerosene tanks, 2 500 Kg bombs and 2 Ato A missiles with LDP. I believe that it should not have any problem in carrying the missile I mentioned under its fuselage.

 

[cirr]

Hi Guys,

I open this thread to discuss the capability of LCA Tejas MK 1 Vs Saab Gripen C/D.

Honorable members may post their views. Pl take care that you do not compare Gripen NG with Tejas MK 1. We shall do that when full specification of MK2 is out.

Pl do not compare JF 17 with either of these aircraft because we already know the outcome.

Pl do not troll and let the thread to remain clean.

Let us discuss.

Yes，the outcome is painful for Indians like you，as hte JF-17 is a more capable fighter than LCA which is still finding its way to FOC。

 

[Kompromat]

@HariPrasad

Flight performance is no longer the key. JSF has been build as per the new doctrine.

We will see how it goes. JF-17 is evolving well and it will be a different jet by 2016-18