LCA Tejas MK 1 VS Gripen C/D

[Shinigami]

@Rashid Mahmood
Thats never going to happen. IAF mantains its division of Medium Heavy and light. based on roles they further classify it by strike, deep strike, air superiority, tactical support, dominance, etc.
LCA's role is i think "Point defence"

@Shinigami @Rashid Mahmood
why dont u both go out n play.....

why dont you stop jerking off and join us?

 

[sancho]

As per the article of B Harry (Radiance of Tejas)

Which is from the early 2000s, we have official DRDO and ADA specs from the last 2-3 years, which clearly shows that the weight is around 6.5t so far away from what was expected back then.

Specification in HAL website states the Payload of 5.3 tons and service sealing of 16 KM.

Welcome to Aerospace Division of HAL

I know and I have other specboards from DRDO and ADA as well, which alone shows how badly our industry is working together when they don't even get common specboards done. However, DRDO as the main developed and ADA as the designer should have the most reliable specs, besides that I guess that the HAL HP has simply made a typo, 5.3 instead of 3.5t payload.

not much differences however ive read that tail less delta needs a stronger engine to overcome drag

Drag is an issue, most likely because of the big wing compared to the small size, the nose could be a problem in that regard too. When the issues of the FCS are over and the aimed specs for IOC 2 are reached, it is quiet competitive to the Gripen C, even if the flight performance is still slightly lower. The potential is there, we just need to finish the development!

i never get why pakistanis tend to underestimate indian made hardware.

That's our fault, not of Pakistanis, Chinese or others, because we tend to aim too high and want to make things better than we actually could. That doesn't mean what we can achieve is bad, but as long as we don't see our developments with a more rational view and aim too high, people will have enough reasons to talk down our developments.
We have the money, we have the access to foreign partners and techs, we have the indigenous technical capabilities too, we just need to find the best way to combine these things in the most effective way!

 

[SQ8]

i never get why pakistanis tend to underestimate indian made hardware. look at arjun for eg. it better than most tanks in the world. or look at the made in india thread.

there is delay in india but when the product comes out it is usually pretty good

Ill give you a shock and a bit to certain Pakistanis too. Many Pakistani private firms that assist in military projects source and copy Indian electronic components. So stop complaining about your PR problems..

The issue is trying to bloat capabilities and come up with deadlines that are not possible without impeccable project management. And Project(or rather any co-operative management) is an alient concept to all subcontinent folk. Till that psychological problem is solved, India or Pakistan will always be stuck looking to others to get stuff they could get done at home.

 

[Storm Force]

oNCE INDIA,S massive multi nationals get into the act (military production/design/ delivery) i expect these issues project management to disappear rapidly.

Indians have world class multui nationals like infosys reliance & TATA as good as any and they are getting ready to take a slice of the indian military pie.

its alol going to change this decade

 

[Jayanta]

oNCE INDIA,S massive multi nationals get into the act (military production/design/ delivery) i expect these issues project management to disappear rapidly.

Indians have world class multui nationals like infosys reliance & TATA as good as any and they are getting ready to take a slice of the indian military pie.

its alol going to change this decade

Reliance has already joined hands with Dassault, and components (wings) of Rafale will be manufactured in India. Similarly TATA is working with Sirkosky, Lockheed Martin, Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) and Urban Aeronautics. Mahindra also has an aviation unit now. Once these companies gains more experience the monopoly of HAL will come to an end...I hope there will be an healthy competition and IAF will get some quality products.

 

[sancho]

Reliance has already joined hands with Dassault, and components (wings) of Rafale will be manufactured in India. Similarly TATA is working with Sirkosky, Lockheed Martin, Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) and Urban Aeronautics. Mahindra also has an aviation unit now. Once these companies gains more experience the monopoly of HAL will come to an end...I hope there will be an healthy competition and IAF will get some quality products.

Not really, at least not fully, since MoD will remain with the government owned companies as main contractors, just like it is the case in MMRCA. As the DM and the Air Chief clearly stated during Aero India, Dassault is free to choose Indian privat players for the production of certain parts, but the final assembly will be done by HAL. So diverting production to the privat industry was always the plan and the whole point of the MMRCA was to increase relations (JVs co-developments) of foreign companies with the Indian aero industry, so that went exactly as MoD wanted it, but HALs importance for India will remain, they just need to work closer with the privat industry.

 

[HariPrasad]

oNCE INDIA,S massive multi nationals get into the act (military production/design/ delivery) i expect these issues project management to disappear rapidly.

Indians have world class multui nationals like infosys reliance & TATA as good as any and they are getting ready to take a slice of the indian military pie.

its alol going to change this decade

SAAB has formed a JV with TATA for new generation Plane design.

 

[gslv mk3]

@HariPrasad

Any links buddy??

SAAB has formed a JV with TATA for new generation Plane design.

 

[HariPrasad]

@HariPrasad

Any links buddy??

Pl find here with the link.


Saab, Tata Fighter Jet Production - Defensenews

 

[HariPrasad]

I know and I have other specboards from DRDO and ADA as well, which alone shows how badly our industry is working together when they don't even get common specboards done. However, DRDO as the main developed and ADA as the designer should have the most reliable specs, besides that I guess that the HAL HP has simply made a typo, 5.3 instead of 3.5t payload.

The article of B Harry (Which is of early 2000s as per you) States that weight carrying will be minimum 4 tons. Tejas have come a long way since than. From Where did you bring in 3.5 tons.

Drag is an issue, most likely because of the big wing compared to the small size, the nose could be a problem in that regard too. When the issues of the FCS are over and the aimed specs for IOC 2 are reached, it is quiet competitive to the Gripen C, even if the flight performance is still slightly lower. The potential is there, we just need to finish the development!

+1

That's our fault, not of Pakistanis, Chinese or others, because we tend to aim too high and want to make things better than we actually could. That doesn't mean what we can achieve is bad, but as long as we don't see our developments with a more rational view and aim too high, people will have enough reasons to talk down our developments.
We have the money, we have the access to foreign partners and techs, we have the indigenous technical capabilities too, we just need to find the best way to combine these things in the most effective way!

You see there are 2 things in that.

First is our media which never give due credit to our own weapon as as some of them are agents of foreign weapon producer.

Other is Pakistan media who always hype their weapons. When India send a mission to Marss, they compared it with Nasr missile.

 

[HariPrasad]

Pl see the important Avionics and LRUs of tejas and its manufacturers. Lots of indiginization has taken place there after. If you see the same for Gripen, you will find opposite of that. Most of LRU and Avionics are imported stuff.


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/downloads/Tejas-Radiance.pdf

 

[Lil Mathew]

The article of B Harry (Which is of early 2000s as per you) States that weight carrying will be minimum 4 tons. Tejas have come a long way since than. From Where did you bring in 3.5 ton.

Somewhere i saw for better landing of N-LCA ,fuselage and undercarriage streangthened as a result payload decreased to 3.5t.. Tejas mk1 may have more payload..

 

[HariPrasad]

Somewhere i saw for better landing of N-LCA ,fuselage and undercarriage streangthened as a result payload decreased to 3.5t.. Tejas mk1 may have more payload..

Correct. Do you have any latest figure of payload and weight of last LSP of SP to be produced.

Sancho said that LSP 1 shall be equal to Gripen C. Not bad I think. We can surpass Gripen D and reach some where near Gripen NG with MK2 version.

 

[sancho]

The article of B Harry (Which is of early 2000s as per you) States that weight carrying will be minimum 4 tons. Tejas have come a long way since than. From Where did you bring in 3.5 tons.

Has it? I don't think so, otherwise it would be in operational service today. LCA has the potential to carry around 4t of payload, since the maximim take off weight leaves that much, even if the emptyweight is higher than planned, but the MK1 is limited to 3.5t according the official ADA specboards of Aero India 2011:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Ypw_Ma1gug/TVeFu_sULnI/AAAAAAAAAHM/zKh2MylRys4/s1600/DSC03688.JPG

You see there are 2 things in that...

Don't blame others, blame those that are responsible for unrealistic developments, overstimations and silly project management. Whenever we will start to take our scientists and managers accountable for their mistakes and failures, we will see progress. But as long as we ignore that, keep blaming politicians and others, or simply celebrate any babystep for no reason we won't improve ourself.

 

[sancho]

...
LCA Tejas MK 1 VS Gripen C/D

Post reported, the MoDs will deal with it.

The rest of us, please stick to topic!