Lashkar Responsible for Attack at Indian Consulate in Herat: US

[ares]

Still he was an ex PM. A former head of state. People seem to be satisfied with the death of former head of state. Now that's funny.

What non sense are you peddling..are you satisfied with fifty three thousand dead Pakistanis(which btw include an ex-PM of yours also)?

Point being our involvement with any proxy groups we might have helped in the past was minimal..we never went in too deep and distanced them at the right time..so the fallout on us is negligible.

Something you never learnt, before started hosting tens of terrorist outfits and turned your country into hotbed of terrorism.

You got in deep and now can not surface.

 

[danger007]

Why not hope that he turn into another Edhi devoted to genuine charitable works and social uplift?


"Love one another" - was the prophet referring to "love" for "Muslims" alone?

oh such a religious love.... but Muslims waging war on Muslim countries ... If he meant like that .. There should be zero crime rate in Pakistan ....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The difference being that Indian stopped using these proxies such as LTTE way back. About Balochistan there is nothing concrete to prove anything. However, Pakistan still continues on both its fronts.

VK Singh's actions while Army Chief may have been largely hushed up by the Indian government and media, but there is still enough material out there to validate Pakistani allegations of very recent (if not continuing) Indian State support for terrorists and terrorism in Pakistan:

Organising eight bomb attacks in a neighbouring country. Subsidising secession on enemy territory. Sponsoring 'friendly' ministers to destabilise an indigenous state government. Eavesdropping on senior government functionaries including India's defence minister. Former army chief Vijay Kumar Singh allegedly used the Technical Support Division (TSD), a clandestine collective of handpicked military intelligence personnel, to settle scores on both sides of the contentious Line of Control (LOC) between Pakistan and India. It was a secret war conceived by a reckless general between 2010 and 2012. And even 16 months after his unceremonious retirement, the general has not stopped fighting. Now the target is the Government, which is matching the general's tricks with its own. The collateral damage of the dirty war between the two is national security.


Read more at: Dirty Tricks: A politically ambitious general and a bungling govt put national security at risk : Cover Story - India Today

oh such a religious love.... but Muslims waging war on Muslim countries ... If he meant like that .. There should be zero crime rate in Pakistan ....

Just because a prophet said something does not mean all those who claim to follow him will interpret what he said the same way, or for that matter even "follow to a T" that which they believe to be the direction indicated by the prophet - it is called fallibility, and humans are if nothing else, extremely fallible.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

VK Singh's actions while Army Chief may have been largely hushed up by the Indian government and media, but there is still enough material out there to validate Pakistani allegations of very recent (if not continuing) Indian State support for terrorists and terrorism in Pakistan:

Well then I am sure everyone would be thrilled to see that material. I am sorry but a news article which doesn't mention any sources of information just doesn't cut it. Even if the article was to be believed General VK Singh's actions lasted only between 2010-2012.

Btw, Welcome back.

 

[Kompromat]

Thanks!

I won't say that I completely understand the concept you highlighted above, but (and correct me if I interpreted this incorrectly), you are suggesting that Pakistan offer no obstacle to armed groups (whose greater objective is the liberation of Kashmir) looking to attack Indian interests in Afghanistan ...

My issue with the above is that extremist religious ideology now permeates through almost all of the more powerful militant groups fighting in/for Kashmir. Allowing such groups to function in both Afghanistan and Kashmir would require tolerating their presence within Pakistan, and tolerating their presence within Pakistan under the concept of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has become a huge problem.

The focus currently may be on FATA, but the fact is that the TTP/AQ/IMU receive significant support from religious extremists in Punjab, Balochistan and Karachi. Pakistan is going to have to break the back of all these existing groups (focused on Kashmir or otherwise) to establish its supremacy, and we cannot simultaneously dismantle these groups while also engaging in "covert force projection" in terms of using the "traditional" set of non-State actors.

This 'traditional' non-state actor apparatus has become the face of the new age of warfare, where states fight for their interests via mercenaries instead of fighting directly. India has developed a logistical, training and economic apparatus to recruit, indoctrinate, train and transport Uzbek and Tajik militants into Pakistan via Afghanistan.

There are two options to dismantle this apparatus. A - Use of proxies to fight the proxies with an aim to dismantle the Indian ability to fight a covert war against Pakistan while using Afghan soil.
B - Indulge in an overt campaign, mount air strikes, special ops and project state power to try and attain the same goal.

The later would bring another enemy to us in the shape of Afghan govt as they won't like Pakistani military bombing hideouts on their soil, nor would India tolerate a direct action on their cronies. It will also earn us international condemnation on a scale we cannot deter.

Prime Minister Modi has promised in his elections to intensify covert war on Pakistan. If i am reading correctly this is now India's foreign policy towards Pakistan. In order to deter them, we must first strike at their foremost capability to wage a covert war in Pakistan which lies in Afghanistan and beyond that in Tajikistan, namely in Fakhror.

Pakistan has to protect itself and there is no better protection than going on an offensive. With Modi stating this open endedly as well as the former Chiefs of the Indian Army admitting to a state backed covert war on Pakistan, we would be doomed to not take it seriously. Use of proxies is important for any state in a condition like ours. Unless im presented with a more pragmatic solution,in which India is no longer putting its state power behind the goal to dismember our nation via a covert war, i am in favour of using similar methods.

The objective is to destroy the machine India has built on our eastern flank. Operation ZarbeAzb focuses on that aspect as well. Once we have reduced TTP's abilities to wage a terror campaign, the areas would be secured through consistent military presence. For this purpose the FC is being trained to replace the Army so we can move the Army back to the Indian border.

Once this is achieved, Pakistan would have to compartmentalize its counter covert war strategy by boosting support for Indian based proxies which do not share border with us. Indian strategy is to support groups that cannot reach India, we need to show them that its not true, hoping that they will learn a few things.

@Icarus @Xeric

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well then I am sure everyone would be thrilled to see that material. I am sorry but a news article which doesn't mention any sources of information just doesn't cut it. Even if the article was to be believed General VK Singh's actions lasted only between 2010-2012.

The source, from what I can tell in the article, appears to be the inquiry report on the TSD by Lt-Gen Vinod Bhatia, director general, Military Operations. As I said, enough material about some of the more sensational allegations in the report was leaked prior to it being hushed up.

Perhaps these are the kinds of damning documents indicting India for supporting terrorism and terrorists in Pakistan that Modi is in such a hurry to destroy ...

On the direction of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the Union home ministry is on a cleanliness drive and, in less than a month, has destroyed nearly 1.5 lakh files that had gathered dust for years.
DILIP SIMEON on why PM Modi’s directive to Home Ministry to destroy 1.5 lakh files raises suspicions

Btw, Welcome back.

Thanks!

 

[VCheng]

Ask yourself, is it in Pakistan's interest to have ISAF leave?

A better question to ask is whether ISAF should serve Pakistan's interests or its own.

 

[Kompromat]

A better question to ask is whether ISAF should serve Pakistan's interests or its own.

It would always serve its own interests. But please answer my question

 

[AugenBlick]

This 'traditional' non-state actor apparatus has become the face of the new age of warfare, where states fight for their interests via mercenaries instead of fighting directly. India has developed a logistical, training and economic apparatus to recruit, indoctrinate, train and transport Uzbek and Tajik militants into Pakistan via Afghanistan.

There are two options to dismantle this apparatus. A - Use of proxies to fight the proxies with an aim to dismantle the Indian ability to fight a covert war against Pakistan while using Afghan soil.
B - Indulge in an overt campaign, mount air strikes, special ops and project state power to try and attain the same goal.

The later would bring another enemy to us in the shape of Afghan govt as they won't like Pakistani military bombing hideouts on their soil, nor would India tolerate a direct action on their cronies. It will also earn us international condemnation on a scale we cannot deter.

Prime Minister Modi has promised in his elections to intensify covert war on Pakistan. If i am reading correctly this is now India's foreign policy towards Pakistan. In order to deter them, we must first strike at their foremost capability to wage a covert war in Pakistan which lies in Afghanistan and beyond that in Tajikistan, namely in Fakhror.

Pakistan has to protect itself and there is no better protection than going on an offensive. With Modi stating this open endedly as well as the former Chiefs of the Indian Army admitting to a state backed covert war on Pakistan, we would be doomed to not take it seriously. Use of proxies is important for any state in a condition like ours. Unless im presented with a more pragmatic solution,in which India is no longer putting its state power behind the goal to dismember our nation via a covert war, i am in favour of using similar methods.

The objective is to destroy the machine India has built on our eastern flank. Operation ZarbeAzb focuses on that aspect as well. Once we have reduced TTP's abilities to wage a terror campaign, the areas would be secured through consistent military presence. For this purpose the FC is being trained to replace the Army so we can move the Army back to the Indian border.

Once this is achieved, Pakistan would have to compartmentalize its counter covert war strategy by boosting support for Indian based proxies which do not share border with us. Indian strategy is to support groups that cannot reach India, we need to show them that its not true, hoping that they will learn a few things.

@Icarus @Xeric

Kudos for the extremely detailed plan.
Just one question:
boosting support for Indian based proxies which do not share border
What and where are these proxies?

 

[VCheng]

Great! more proxy wars, as if the lessons learnt or the lack of it the last time around wasn't enough.

Yes, it is a tough situation for both sides.

It would always serve its own interests. But please answer my question

I think you just answered your own question!

 

[Kompromat]

I think you just answered your own question!

Huzoor ISAF is not going anywhere -- mark my words, we love them too much, you know what i mean.

 

[VCheng]

Huzoor ISAF is not going anywhere -- mark my words, we love them too much, you know what i mean.

It will be reduced in numbers and will undertake only limited strikes according to its own requirements.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Perhaps these are the kinds of damning documents indicting India for supporting terrorism and terrorists in Pakistan that Modi is in such a hurry to destroy ...

If you read the original article posted by ToI not the anti-Modi drivel that you posted, then it clearly mentions that it was a cleanliness drive in which very old files , some of which were from pre-independence era were destroyed. These filed were lying there dust was gathering over them.Those files contained stuff like this

Following PM Modi’s directive, home ministry destroys 1.5 lakh files - The Times of India

One of these files was about the presidential sanction given to pay India's first governor general Lord Mountbatten a princely sum of Rs 64,000 as TA/DA allowance for moving back to his country.
Another interesting snippet that came out was that after India's first President Rajendra Prasad refused to take any pension, it was eventually sent to the government's calamity fund.

Another file has details about the Cabinet meeting that was called before the death of Mahatma Gandhi was announced, an official said.

Now, don't get me wrong , there is a possibility and stuff you are posting can raise suspicions but there is hardly anything 'damning' or 'indicting' about this kind of evidence, if you can call it that.

Btw, I believe if Pakistan itself was so sure about it's evidence against India they would have approached various countries and the UN to prove India's hand in what's going on in Pakistan. Just like what India did after 26/11. But that I am afraid has't happened.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If you read the original article posted by ToI not the anti-Modi drivel that you posted, then it clearly mentions that it was a cleanliness drive in which very old files , some of which were from pre-independence era were destroyed. These filed were lying there dust was gathering over them.Those files contained stuff like this

No need to get nasty so soon - it was a tongue in cheek comment, one that I had thought would be obvious.

Clearly Modi does not need to embark on some sort of highly publicized drive to ensure that documents such as the inquiry report in question are kept classified.

Now, don't get me wrong , there is a possibility and stuff you are posting can raise suspicions but there is hardly anything 'damning' or 'indicting' about this kind of evidence, if you can call it that.

Btw, I believe if Pakistan itself was so sure about it's evidence against India they would have approached various countries and the UN to prove India's hand in what's going on in Pakistan. Just like what India did after 26/11. But that I am afraid has't happened.

Pakistan has raised the issue of Indian support for terrorism in Balochistan etc. at various fora, but, just as the Indian government has put in no serious effort in the UN to have Pakistan and/or her military blacklisted as a terrorist organization, neither has Pakistan. I am not suggesting a quid pro quo of some kind - just pointing out the fact that both countries are aware of geo-political realities that limit the impact of any tantrums they throw on the world stage against the other.

India has thrown more tantrums than Pakistan, but almost nothing of tangible value, outside of some media brownie points that commentators can cling to while publishing posts or articles, has been achieved. Pakistan is even more acutely aware of the limitations of "raising this at the UN", given India's economic clout, and has therefore limited her own tantrums.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

No need to get nasty so soon - it was a tongue in cheek comment, one that I had thought would be obvious.

Clearly Modi does not need to embark on some sort of highly publicized drive to ensure that documents such as the inquiry report in question are kept classified.

Pakistan has raised the issue of Indian support for terrorism in Balochistan etc. at various fora, but, just as the Indian government has put in no serious effort in the UN to have Pakistan and/or her military blacklisted as a terrorist organization, neither has Pakistan. I am not suggesting a quid pro quo of some kind - just pointing out the fact that both countries are aware of geo-political realities that limit the impact of any tantrums they throw on the world stage against the other.

India has thrown more tantrums than Pakistan, but almost nothing of tangible value, outside of some media brownie points that commentators can cling to while publishing posts or articles, has been achieved. Pakistan is even more acutely aware of the limitations of "raising this at the UN", given India's economic clout, and has therefore limited her own tantrums.

The nastiness wasn't targeted at you. It was targeted at the the author of the article you posted since he tried to misconstrue it as some sort of a Modi conspiracy and completely twisting the original article published by ToI.

As for what India has gained, the world media does recognise that Pakistan does have a problem with supporting and harbouring terrorists . You can see it on their news media and even in Hollywood movies that the world watches. This has great impact on Pakistan's image as you can see with Gallup's polls about Pakistan's favourability in the world. Image matters in the 21st century.

Apart from that, various countries in the world and the UN have designated many of the terror organisations operating from Pakistani soil as terror organisations. Some of these are anti-India like the LeT. That too is of high importance , especially when Pakistan is seen not to be acting against them and is seen as giving them a free run on their land.

Battle for image and reputation in the 21st century is as important as a real battle , I believe and it's a battle Pakistan has lost. The tangibility of it can be seen in the way countries view Pakistan and the investment climate there. The results will, however, be far more tangible in the long run. I hope Pakistan realises this before it's too late, if it already isn't.