Kerala Corner

[gslv mk3]

745 AD ??? Many says kanai thoma came in 345 AD ( Knanaya Origin - St. Thomas Syrian Orthodox Knanaya Church - Clifton, New Jersey its a x'ian one ,now what ??

What about the tombs in Brazil ,China ,iran ,tibet ,,etc

There is only another tomb in Iran ( Edessa,The body was taken from India )
Its false actualy,the date is 745 (Shi mim heh in syriac ) as in most documents.Only document that says 345 is from 18th century

 

[Marxist]

@gslv mk3 Which visitors ??? only one, i guess Marco polo ,no others mentioned about the so called st thomas church in kerala

There is only another tomb in Iran ( Edessa,The body was taken from India )
Its false actualy,the date is 745 (Shi mim heh in syriac ) as in most documents.Only document that says 345 is from 18th century

it is believed that He came to India 20 years after First Council of Nicaea (325) ,that is in 345 AD ..can you prove your 745 AD claim ?

 

[takeiteasy]

edited...

 

[gslv mk3]

@gslv mk3 Which visitors ??? only one, i guess Marco polo ,no others mentioned about the so called st thomas church in kerala

There are many references to Church of Kerala established by St.thomas

St.Ephraem, the Syrian (AD 300-373)
St.Ambrose
Eusebius(264-340 )
St.Jerome(345-490)
Marcopolo
Nicolo De Conti
John Chrysostom, ( 347—407 )

Many more reference in liturgy of Churches around the world

it is a old diocese formed in the 1950s dividing Ernakulam arch diocese. the people of Kunnathnad,Muvattupuzha-Kothamangalam who were part of Vadakkumkoor and Keezhmalenad who are closer to Kochin historically this diocese was formed(the people of very old Mylakompu forane and Arakkuzha forane formed the main block of Kothamangalam diocese. this diocese has people who are from Cochin kingdom who came here during Tipu's attack) . Idukki diocese is a new one formed for thekkar whom majority are migrated from Kottayam,Alappuzha districts. there IS a difference. even though agrarian, people of Kothamangalam diocese are not blind like Kaldayavaadi people of Changanachery diocese even their language and culture shows some tolerance unlike what I've experienced south.

You didnt answer my question

Can you please explain what is 'Kaldayavaadam' according to you??Then I would tell you who supports it.

And tell me how I am misguided.

@gslv mk3 Which visitors ??? only one, i guess Marco polo ,no others mentioned about the so called st thomas church in kerala

it is believed that He came to India 20 years after First Council of Nicaea (325) ,that is in 345 AD ..can you prove your 745 AD claim ?

There is a translation of a Syriac letter of Mar Gabriel,a Syrian bishop sent to India,please read that.

Chronicles of Malabar: Mission of Mar Simon and Mar Gabriel-An Attempt to reinforce East Syrianism

The earliest available report seems to be of Dionysio. Dionysio ( 1578) gives the arrival of Thomas of Cana after Mar Sabrisho and Mar Piruz ie, after 9th century. Gouvea ( 1604) also dates the arrival in 9th century. The Dutch writer Visscher ( 1743) also gives the date as 745 AD. Hugh gives the date as 780 AD. Assemani in 900 AD. Paolo gives the arrival as 825 AD. Some of the 16th century records doesn’t mention the dates.

Reported byYear Year of arrival
Dionysio 1578 After the 9th Century
Gouvea 1604 9th Century
Visscher 1743 745 AD
Hugh 780 AD
Assemani 900 AD
Paolo 825 AD
Local document 18th Century 345 AD ( also according to current Southist tradition)

 

[takeiteasy]

edited...

 

[acetophenol]

Njanivide oru board vechallo ennalojikuva,"rastriyam ,matham samsarikaruthu" ennu.

 

[takeiteasy]

Njanivide oru board vechallo ennalojikuva,"rastriyam ,matham samsarikaruthu" ennu.

njaan nirthiyekkam..

 

[Marxist]

There are many references to Church of Kerala established by St.thomas

St.Ephraem, the Syrian (AD 300-373)
St.Ambrose
Eusebius(264-340 )
St.Jerome(345-490)
Marcopolo
Nicolo De Conti
John Chrysostom, ( 347—407 )

Many more reference in liturgy of Churches around the world

did this Ephraem, the Syrian visited India or any of other guys (except Marco polo)? so how can it be true ?

 

[acetophenol]

njaan nirthiyekkam..

eniku ee matham ennu kelkunnathe allergiya,athu knodu paranjupoyatha

 

[gslv mk3]

claiming that before portugese arrival Syriac christians of Kerala observed 7 times nimaaz like muslims do and followed persian system eastern liturgy and have their own king at Udayamperur(Villarvattom) as well as unsubstantiated claims:

Villarvattom was a mere Vassal state,not a King.
The clergy observed 7 times prayers & normal laity took two,a day.Do you have any proof against?
Yes they were a part of 'Church of East' & celebrated 'East Syrian liturgy.There are even manuscripts.Do you think they celebrated latin liturgy?

* having Qurbana for 2.5 hours facing Altar including Syriac words etc

That was the true tradition of nasranis,Syriac qurbana facing altar.Do you even know that Qurbana itself is Syriac word?Before 1960s qurbana was in Syriac?2.5 hour qurbana is called Raza.

secret desire to union with Jacobites/Orthodox to separate from Catholic Church. to form a pseudo-Chaldean church with alien language and outdated customs.

Nothing like that.Chaldeans/East Syrians are close to belief in Catholics than Orthodox.Syro Malabar itself is a east syriac catholic church (or atleast meant to be,by the holy see).Traditions cannot be called outdated,and Syriac cannot be called 'alien' it was here for more than 1000 years.Nasranis studied prayers in Syriac before portuguese & wrote malayalam in Syriac script - Suriyani Malayalam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

did this Ephraem, the Syrian visited India or any of other guys (except Marco polo)? so how can it be true ?

Do you know that Church in Kerala was part of East Syrian Church in which Aprem was a part of?And they send bishops for us?

He has written a book called Nisibene hyms in which he say
Thomas,the Apostle, suffered martyrdom in India,his body was buried in India,his bones were thence removed by a merchant to the City of Edessa,Miracles in Mylapore and Edessa.

 

[Marxist]

There are many references to Church of Kerala established by St.thomas

St.Ephraem, the Syrian (AD 300-373)
St.Ambrose
Eusebius(264-340 )
St.Jerome(345-490)
Marcopolo
Nicolo De Conti
John Chrysostom, ( 347—407 )

Many more reference in liturgy of Churches around the world



You didnt answer my question






There is a translation of a Syriac letter of Mar Gabriel,a Syrian bishop sent to India,please read that.

Chronicles of Malabar: Mission of Mar Simon and Mar Gabriel-An Attempt to reinforce East Syrianism

The earliest available report seems to be of Dionysio. Dionysio ( 1578) gives the arrival of Thomas of Cana after Mar Sabrisho and Mar Piruz ie, after 9th century. Gouvea ( 1604) also dates the arrival in 9th century. The Dutch writer Visscher ( 1743) also gives the date as 745 AD. Hugh gives the date as 780 AD. Assemani in 900 AD. Paolo gives the arrival as 825 AD. Some of the 16th century records doesn’t mention the dates.

Reported byYear Year of arrival
Dionysio 1578 After the 9th Century
Gouvea 1604 9th Century
Visscher 1743 745 AD
Hugh 780 AD
Assemani 900 AD
Paolo 825 AD
Local document 18th Century 345 AD ( also according to current Southist tradition)

it will be better if you give a link ....What about geographers like ibn battuta ? did he mentioned about our group ?

 

[gslv mk3]

it will be better if you give a link ....What about geographers like ibn battuta ? did he mentioned about our group ?

Well please google.
There is reference to Malabar Christians in a travalogue by a monk called Cosmas Indicopleustes in 522 AD

Chronicles of Malabar: Cosmas Indicopleustes &The Christian Topography (AD 540).

The World According to Cosmas Indicopleustes – Concepts and Illustrations of an Alexandrian Merchant and Monk | Faller | Transcultural Studies

Cosmas Indicopleustes

 

[Marxist]

Well please google.
There is reference to Malabar Christians in a travalogue by a monk called Cosmas Indicopleustes in 522 AD

Chronicles of Malabar: Cosmas Indicopleustes &The Christian Topography (AD 540).

The World According to Cosmas Indicopleustes – Concepts and Illustrations of an Alexandrian Merchant and Monk | Faller | Transcultural Studies

Cosmas Indicopleustes

Will look into it , hope you guys wont claim as descents of Prester John and India was a x'ian empire ( Prester John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

 

[gslv mk3]

Will look into it , hope you guys wont claim as descents of Prester John and India was a x'ian empire ( Prester John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

Prester John(Mar Yohannaan) was a persian bishop sent to India/an archdeacon, & visited Constatinople & Rome.Records claim him as coming from a people where pepper grows,warriors ride elephants & with a Jewish community split between White & black jews.

'' Evidence emerging clearly from the text will immediately show that Prester John lived in India,or to be more precise,in Malabar''

Meir Bar-Ilan,Senior Lecturer ,Talmud Department and Jewish History Department,Bar-Ilan University,Israel.

 

[Chronos]

eniku ee matham ennu kelkunnathe allergiya,athu knodu paranjupoyatha

Ethu parayan thudangiyuttu kurre kalamayi.

Pakshe enthu cheyyam.

edited...

@takeiteasy in my alerts section it is said you replied to me.

I guess you edited your response. LOL.

Enne entha theri villicho?

@gslv mk3 did you see @takeiteasy response to my comment. He edited it out now. =P