Kayani feared religious right’s backlash against him: Athar Abbas

[FaujHistorian]

It is quite likely Gen Athar Abbas is telling the truth as his imagined it. However one must not ignore that Gen Athar Abbas retired in the 2-star rank and normally 2- star generals are not among the decision making elite. We are also aware that Gen Athar Abbas never held sensitive positions such DGMO or DG Military intelligence; therefore he could not have been privy to Gen Kiyani’s inner circle.

For argument’s sake let us assume his remarks describe the situation correctly that it was Gen Kiyani who procrastinated, but have we considered possible political fallout of this action?

It is doubtful if PPP gov’t had the resolve to do it alone and with combined opposition from PML-N, PTI, JI & JUI National Assembly approval was unlikely. Remember, PML-N was among the pro-Taliban camp while in the Opposition. On the other hand, Pak Army starting a major military operation without okay from Zardari & Co. would tantamount to mutiny.

I am not a great fan of Gen Kiyani and hold him responsible for the bad press Pakistan received in the international circles after OBL was found hiding next to PMA for 5 years without MI or ISI being aware of it.

A soldier should have the courage and conviction to speak up if he thinks his Chief is working against national interest and / or resign under protest. However, it appears that none of generals who criticise their Chiefs and write books after they retire, had any conscience while they were still wearing the uniform. In this case I blame Gen Athar Abbas for the lack of spine.

In my opinion this is a cheap publicity seeking stunt and should be ignored.

As always a brilliant post.


I can only guess. Kiyani feared E. Pakistan/B Desh like situation in NWA.

I know Pak army will never say it openly, but many senior generals live with the ghost of 1971 defeat.

 

[Rafi]

As always a brilliant post.


I can only guess. Kiyani feared E. Pakistan/B Desh like situation in NWA.

I know Pak army will never say it openly, but many senior generals live with the ghost of 1971 defeat.

No that was not it, Kayani knew the Army was stretched, also he did not have the political support necessary, for a massive operation in NWA.

 

[Imran Khan]

All are same humy tab pata chalta hai jab wo retired ho jaty hain hahahahaha

 

[FaujHistorian]

No that was not it, Kayani knew the Army was stretched, also he did not have the political support necessary, for a massive operation in NWA.

Bhai we don't have direct line into GHQ so it is all guessing and thus could be incorrect. Yours and mine both.

Let me take you back to the day when Pak army concluded South Wazirastan ops.

I vividly remember the interview of a colonel sahib, in full military gear helmat and dust on uniform, all ready to head north to NWA.

news guy asked, Sir, NWA will be dangerous place, all those battle hardened Muj live in NWA.

And colonel sahib replied, We the Pak army too are battle hardened.

The point is that our Colonel class and our brigadier class has been ready to clean up NWA for a long time. but the 4 stars kept on playing politics.

This is why I say Kiyani types were perhaps the last remnants of 1971 era officers. May be Rahil too comes from 1971 or prior batch. I don't know.

but he has seen much more poise than any of the senior officers before him.

Even Mush was softy softy just like Kiyani.


I do give credit to Kiyani for one thing. He was quiet man, and allow Zardari to complete the tenure in relative peace. This allowed political gov to take a fragile hold in Pakistan.


peace

 

[Rafi]

Bhai we don't have direct line into GHQ so it is all guessing and thus could be incorrect. Yours and mine both.

Let me take you back to the day when Pak army concluded South Wazirastan ops.

I vividly remember the interview of a colonel sahib, in full military gear helmat and dust on uniform, all ready to head north to NWA.

news guy asked, Sir, NWA will be dangerous place, all those battle hardened Muj live in NWA.

And colonel sahib replied, We the Pak army too are battle hardened.

The point is that our Colonel class and our brigadier class has been ready to clean up NWA for a long time. but the 4 stars kept on playing politics.

This is why I say Kiyani types were perhaps the last remnants of 1971 era officers. May be Rahil too comes from 1971 or prior batch. I don't know.

but he has seen much more poise than any of the senior officers before him.

Even Mush was softy softy just like Kiyani.


I do give credit to Kiyani for one thing. He was quiet man, and allow Zardari to complete the tenure in relative peace. This allowed political gov to take a fragile hold in Pakistan.


peace

Gen K, was privy to information that the 1 and 2 stars did not have, let's leave it at that.

The Army has a new Sharif Doctrine - which has evolved during Gen S, previous jobs. Much more aggressive to internal and external threats.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Gen K, was privy to information that the 1 and 2 stars did not have, let's leave it at that.

The Army has a new Sharif Doctrine - which has evolved during Gen S, previous jobs. Much more aggressive to internal and external threats.

Off course what you say is correct.. I just added a new aspect.

Kiyani joined Pak army just before 1971 war.
------ Kiyani was born in Gujjar Khan
-------son of NCO

Sharif got his commission in 1976.
--- Sharif was born in Quetta (but the family is originally from Gujrat area in Punjab)
--- son of major
--- brother of Nishane Haider recepient
--- brother of captain


So now you can see that psychologically (my view) he would be much more assertive comparing to Kiyani. As Kiyani was the very last batch of Pakistani army that suffered humiliation in 1971 war. Sharif on the other hand is new breed of officers. additionally Rahil's family background gives him extra edge.


In fact I suggest PML-N and Nawaz better watch out. and not do any pangas with army. Rahil is not going to be softy softy as was Kiyani.

In fact Musharraf was kind of father/brother figure for Rahil especially after the shahadat of Rahil's older brother Shabbir.

 

[Bang Galore]

On a slightly tangential point even if on the similar issue of Gen.Kayani being worried about the backlash from the religious right, it was the same reason given when he pulled his support for the Musharraf-MMS proposition on Kashmir. Maybe just an excuse but that was the reason given.

 

[FaujHistorian]

On a slightly tangential point even if on the similar issue of Gen.Kayani being worried about the backlash from the religious right, it was the same reason given when he pulled his support for the Musharraf-MMS proposition on Kashmir. Maybe just an excuse but that was the reason given.

Let's not bring K-word in this. unless you want to attract all the Indo-Pak maggots and flies.

Thank you

 

[Bang Galore]

Let's not bring K-word in this. unless you want to attract all the Indo-Pak maggots and flies.

Thank you

Not trying to, just making the point that there might be evidence from other actions of a "supposed" worry of the religious right.

 

[KingMamba]

Not trying to, just making the point that there might be evidence from other actions of a "supposed" worry of the religious right.

It is not just the religious right a leader in Pakistan has to worry about when it comes to Kashmir.

 

[Bang Galore]

It is not just the religious right a leader in Pakistan has to worry about when it comes to Kashmir.

I agree but that was the reason cited.

 

[tarrar]

One of the worst Generals in history of Pakistani military. Gen Shareef is shoving a big danda in Nawaz and his terrorists rear ends.

Well there is no doubt about it that Gen. Kayani was a worst General & thanks to his incompetency both corrupt politicians & rented terrorists were able to harm Pakistan. I will also blame him for worsening Balochistan province security issue, as he had withdrawn the military from the province, which in my opinion was not required at all.

If he would had done one thing right then he would had been a hero. My pick would had been Military take over & save Pakistan from these criminal politicians, because they have harmed Pakistan very badly & have pushed Pakistan years back, also they have brought anarchy & chaos in Pakistan not only that they had also signed secret under table deals with US & GOD knows how many Kerry Lugar bills & US Aid programs like programs are running in Pakistan by US & harming Pakistan in every step. This does not end here, we also saw Haqqanis memo gates, Raymond Davis, fake OBL operation, loads of crap from dajjal Iftekhar & so on. All of this could had been stopped for good only if he had decided to take over for the sake of Pakistan, but his personal interests came first & that harmed Pakistan badly.

Gen. Raheel Sharif is on both paths here. He is against terrorism but at the same time he is walking on the foot prints of Gen. Kayani. He will have to take a decision to save Pakistan from these criminal politicians who are harming & messing us Pakistan only for their personal interests & personal business. Pakistan should always come first for our Military, to hell with these criminal politicians & their personal interests.

. The Haqqanis were mostly operating from Paktia and Khost [in Afghanistan]
and then kids from afghanistan and india cry that haqqani are in Pakistan

They will cry because they have to follow the script, which is to frame & harm Pakistan.

All are same humy tab pata chalta hai jab wo retired ho jaty hain hahahahaha

You got that right, but we did saw three mutiny attempts made against Gen. Kayani.

 

[FaujHistorian]

One of the worst Generals in history of Pakistani military. Gen Shareef is shoving a big danda in Nawaz and his terrorists rear ends.

Come on man.

Learn to respect. Gen Kiyani worked with civilian government in democratic way
and so is Gen. Rahil.

You sound more and more like our angry neighbor poster.

Why oh why

you post so nicely otherwise.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@niaz sahab; your post #56 makes eminent sense. Even there are clearly apparent contradictions contained within Gen.Athar Abbas's narrative; though I will refrain at this stage from imputing any motives to him.

@Aeronaut; yes indeed, Gen.Abbas could have refrained from giving this interview at this juncture, it would not have harmed anybody's cause if he had done so, just as it has not served his cause; if at all he has one.

@Slav Defence; it is true that this campaign should have 'kicked off' earlier, this delay has only made the task that much more difficult. But OTOH, 'were all the conditions then prevailing ideally suited to ensure that it would be a resounding success'?

@Armstrong and @Icarus; the concept of "seniority" is based on many assumptions, only in order to deal with "variables" and and thus attempt to simplify a choce. So its just an effort to find a 'workable compromise' and in some instances can be erroneus, while in others it may just work. That principle is not infallible. To replace it, one needs a well constructed system in place that can assess/select through all the variables.

@Irfan Baloch; you have made note-worthy points in your post. I am no member of Gen.Kiyani's "fan-club" (if at all one such exists) nor will I attempt to be his advocate. But I am inclined to think that during Gen.Kiyani's tenure, for most of the time; the conditions were not suitable for such an Op to be carried out towards a resounding and conclusive success.
Save for the last part of his tenure (in the period of his extension)); but that coincided with the period leading upto and was part of the (successful) transition of Civilian Power in Pakistan. At least Gen.Kiyani deserves part of the credit for having "stewarded" that through!
If the Ops had been initiated and failed even that "very momentous step" in Pakistan's history may have been severely impacted. Can we not think that the period of "consolidation of Pakistani Institutions" that Gen.Kiyani in a sense oversaw, will now play a major role in assuring the prospects of success of this present Ops.?
One major component of this Ops is "The Battle for Legitimacy". The balance on the side of the State of Pakistan has become weightier because of the intervening interregnum. A more "Legitimate State" is now embarking on what has always been a "Legitimate Operation for a Legitimate Cause".
Of course; one can always wish that all this had happened earlier.

 

[Slav Defence]

@Slav Defence; it is true that this campaign should have 'kicked off' earlier, this delay has only made the task that much more difficult. But OTOH, 'were all the conditions then prevailing ideally suited to ensure that it would be a resounding success'?

.

Very well raised question,my friend.
I believe that strategically,situation was less complicated to handle, as it is also reflected from Gen.(r)Ather Abbas's interview.
However, political situation was not favourable.In fact I will rightfully say that it was much complicated as compare to current scenario.
There were three types of political environment:
*The political establishment
*Inside Army
*The tribal environment (most complicated)

The Political Establishment:

The political mindset,including those who were a part of government were not well oriented. They lack complete understanding of scenario, as a result of which they have failed to engenieer better counter terrorism policy plus alignment of foreign policy with respect to situation, as Pakistan's internal defence and security matters, were very much embedded or interconnected with each other.
Our media was not much into our control. I am admitting this without any hesitation.
Our political mindset were very much intended to have peace settlement.

Inside Pakistan army:

As stated by Gen(r) Ather Abbass,army was in clear favour to wage decisive operation which reflects that they have already reached towards conclusion and were not depending upon political policy.However, lack of advanced equipment/weapons,complete confusion of political establishment, unstable economical situation and already discussed factors above has refrained them in taking any major decision.

Inside Tribal areas:

As again addressed by Gen(R).Ather Abbas, tribals had peace settlement with TTP. Haqqani Network was another key factor.

Other:

Last but not least, TTP was way united then ever and let us not forget that US 'do more' policy has played reverse psychology which has triggered mullah group to favour peace settlement without understanding the complexity of scenario.

Hence,a lot factors has refrained Kiyani to launch decisive operation.
Regards.