Kayani feared religious right’s backlash against him: Athar Abbas

[Jaanbaz]

Come on man.

Learn to respect. Gen Kiyani worked with civilian government in democratic way
and so is Gen. Rahil.

You sound more and more like our angry neighbor poster.

Why oh why

you post so nicely otherwise.

Okay, the only good thing Gen Kiyani did was not to interferer too much in political. Specially the way media had attacked the Army for interfering in politics. But he should have been more pro active against terrorists groups.

 

[Slav Defence]

Just edited above post.

 

[niaz]

Let me restate that what Kiyani could have and should have done and did not do is all a conjecture and we can never be certain.

To say that army was ready 3 years ago is probably correct. It is the job of General Staff to prepare plans for every contingency and since Operation in Swat & South Waziristan had already been undertaken, even the most incompetent CGS would have had some kind of plan ready for N Waziristan.

As Hon Fauji Historian correctly pointed out that we don’t know what the real reasons for inaction by Gen Kiyani were. One expects that this would have been discussed and deliberated in the Corps Commanders meeting. Gen Athar Abbas was not a Corps Commander and any info he received was thru a third party and hence suspect.

In my humble opinion, armed services are under and should always follow the civilian government’s orders. Chiefs of the Armed services, Security Advisors etc. can only state their case and recommend. However, only the elected gov’t of the day, good or bad, has the legal authority to decide when and with whom the army should fight. Naturally one would expect strong difference of opinion, but any adventurism by ambitious army generals is a sure recipe for anarchy.

It is reported that when Field Marshall Eric Von Manstein, one of Hitler’s most able commanders of WW2 was approached by the officers planning to bomb Hitler, he said “ I don’t agree with Hitler on many things but Prussian Field Marshals don’t mutiny”. This is true “Noblesse oblige” and to this day Manstein is highly regarded by friends and foes alike.

Criticising your Chief after he has retired is hitting below the belt and against the fearless, just and honourable behaviour one expects from the generals of Pakistan Army. I therefore maintain my position that any General who has strong reservations about actions of his Chief concerning matters of national importance; should either speak up and / or resign while still in uniform; else his should keep his trap shut

 

[Chak Bamu]

This operation for whatever reasons could not be executed before planned American withdrawal in 2014.

 

[mave]

Come on man.

Learn to respect. Gen Kiyani worked with civilian government in democratic way
and so is Gen. Rahil.

You sound more and more like our angry neighbor poster.

Why oh why

you post so nicely otherwise.

What Respect ? Respect money ? Respect Projects ? Respect corruption ? RESPECT KARNI HAY TU INN KI KARO :

 

[FaujHistorian]

Okay, the only good thing Gen Kiyani did was not to interferer too much in political. Specially the way media had attacked the Army for interfering in politics. But he should have been more pro active against terrorists groups.

Well said.

 

[Black Mamba1]

Well said.

I have one question. If it is an accepted fact that your personnel including your army chief are corrupted and take money from foreign nations then why most of the Pakistanis consider Army as holy cow and blame alone civilian govt for corruption?

Even if both are equally corrupted, then also civilian govt should be more preferable as you can at least change them if you like. But you can no way select of change an army boss even if you wish.

Can anybody please comment?

 

[FaujHistorian]

I have one question. If it is an accepted fact that your personnel including your army chief are corrupted and take money from foreign nations then why most of the Pakistanis consider Army as holy cow and blame alone civilian govt for corruption?

Even if both are equally corrupted, then also civilian govt should be more preferable as you can at least change them if you like. But you can no way select of change an army boss even if you wish.

Can anybody please comment?

constipated conspiracy theories yaar.

 

[Metanoia]

General Kayani also had to face the government of PPP....the likes of Zardari and Rehman Malik.....I dare anyone here to try to keep such folks under discipline whilst facing multiple threats.

Another reason is that Pakistan Army at that time was going through modernization...it was Kayani who properly introduced the reforms and modernization in the army; hence he had to see them all through to the end.

Kayani was also the "thinking" general.....if there was national cohesion back then perhaps an operation could have been launched. But the public opinion coupled with hostile government, judiciary and media made it nearly impossible.

 

[mave]

General Kayani also had to face the government of PPP....the likes of Zardari and Rehman Malik.....I dare anyone here to try to keep such folks under discipline whilst facing multiple threats.

Another reason is that Pakistan Army at that time was going through modernization...it was Kayani who properly introduced the reforms and modernization in the army; hence he had to see them all through to the end.

Kayani was also the "thinking" general.....if there was national cohesion back then perhaps an operation could have been launched. But the public opinion coupled with hostile government, judiciary and media made it nearly impossible.

DO NOT AGREE

 

[Mercenary]

Kiyani was too busy playing golf and smoking cigarettes to care about launching an offensive in North Waziristan.

Better late than never, Pakistan needs to see this fight through, and no half measures to stop the fighting when we are on the brink of victory.

We need to wipe out the TTP, like Jordan wiped out PLO in 1970, or Sri Lanka wiped out LTTE in 2009.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch; you have made note-worthy points in your post. I am no member of Gen.Kiyani's "fan-club" (if at all one such exists) nor will I attempt to be his advocate. But I am inclined to think that during Gen.Kiyani's tenure, for most of the time; the conditions were not suitable for such an Op to be carried out towards a resounding and conclusive success.
Save for the last part of his tenure (in the period of his extension)); but that coincided with the period leading upto and was part of the (successful) transition of Civilian Power in Pakistan. At least Gen.Kiyani deserves part of the credit for having "stewarded" that through!

I have already said what you are saying apart from the Imran Khan's argument that what if the operation fails.
military trains to win and trains to fight a war.. the training ensures that risks or failures are minimized but they are no excuse for inaction


war is a flued concept and the situation is never static. if you have an advantage then very good but looking for perfect conditions means you loose initiative. Kyani had been busy and American/ ANA attitude didnt help him much either I have listed examples already. so he was no coward but he took a strategic view and delayed the NW action.. that time is gone. and we cant reverse the clocks.

the hostile media and vindictive judiciary did play its part but being a COAS is not a job for the meek, personal image be damned.. we condemned ourselves when we ditched the Taliban soon after Saudis were done with them due to Osama. instead of appreciating the amount of pain and challenge we brought upon ourselves, Americans and the rest of the world chastised us for our previous links with Taliban and we were mocked that we were paying the price for raising proxies.

but those analysts for all their worth didnt realize that we had an easier option, just refuse to launch any operations or pick any fight with the Talian and let them operate the way they wanted, and this way would have kept the civilians and military safe from the blowback. alas the bigoted soar arses we normally call opinion makers continued to harm over our role during and after Soviet occupation of Afghanistan soon after Mumbai when India mobilized its forces against our borders.. we responded in kind and many tribal factions who were fighting us.. offered their help and ceasefire in order to respond to India, we again had the chance to take that offer and get relief but our commitment to fight the Islamic terrorism was honest and we rejected their offer and continued our operations. we been criticised for being soft or harboring haqqanis but the facts proved otherwise, there was no safe heaven for haqqanis and even those who where here to negotiate with Americans were assassinated to sabotage the peace talks (some safe heaven that) on the contrary.. it were the Afghan double dealing backstabbing scumbags who were repeatedly exposed by not only us but even Americans for harboring and supporting BLA and TTP leadership.


do note that all this cticism is only for our so called liberalis and habitual army haters and the west not India, we cant blame India, India does what any true enemy should do

 

[Metanoia]

do note that all this cticism is only for our so called liberalis and habitual army haters and the west not India, we cant blame India, India does what any true enemy should do

Mate I am a liberal. Army as an institution has always been progressive and nationalistic.

99.99% of the people I came across who are anti-army are the right-wingers. The only left-wing anti-army elements in Pakistan are those who are into Bhuttoism.

On topic: Kayani's health deteriorated by the end of his term....the dark circles and that tired look on his face. Clearly he was going through a tough time instead of just "enjoying" himself.

 

[Hulk]

Funnily enough, while they are in the driving seat, the COAS of Pakistan is treated as Rambo incarnated. Once out of power, the skeletons start stumbling out. A lot of Pakistan's COAS have met not a very flattering fate post retirement.

Exactly my view, I have seen threads here celebrating his extension. Totally lost how this happens. I think Kayani brought down terrorist incidence significantly. Also splitting TTP. Now he is just bad General.