Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[TaimiKhan]

Operations far worse than Gaza happened in East Pakistan and Balochistan.

Instead of a inflammatory troll kind one liner, some facts & figures would be good to support your theory.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I just cant see India allowing the nonmuslims even if they are minority be subject Blasphemy laws where they can be excuted if they say something agains Islam or the Quran or the women to go to prison for 5 year according to Pakistan Laws if they are raped and they cant get 4 Muslims Men to testife to the rape....I sure would not want Kashmir’ being part of Pakistan,, India is bad enough.

You are a little behind, and woefully uninformed about Pakistan for someone displaying a Pakistan origin flag (not that it really fools anyone given the content of your posts) - the laws discriminating against women were repealed as part of the Women's protection bill during Musharraf's time.

The Blasphemy laws have been abused, and would have been repealed as well were it not for the fact that Musharraf needed the religious parties coalition to get other issues taken care of (I think they were amended to make it much harder to register Blasphemy cases, though I could be wrong) and even now there is a vigorous national and political discourse over them. They too shall be modified or repealed.

So the 'concerns' you suggest are invalid, and in any case, a majority of the residents of Kashmir should not be held hostage to the irrational fears of a minority.

If the majority of the Kashmiris wish to be a part of Pakistan, they should be able to do so - the UNSC resolutions promised them the right to decide their fate, and it was accepted by the Indian government, Pakistan and the world.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Operations far worse than Gaza happened in East Pakistan and Balochistan.

Or like those in Indian Punjab and occupied Kashmir.

East Pakistan (about fifty thousand dead from both sides) would likely not have happened had Indian supported terrorists not gone on a rampage murdering, raping and pillaging the families (women and children) of West Pakistanis (troops and civilians), Biharis and East Pakistanis who were believed to be 'collaborating' with the West Pakistanis.

The degree of violence and bloodshed that occurred meant that the State had to crackdown - it is unfortunate that atrocities (even if nowhere close to those claimed by Indians and some others) occurred with that crackdown, and for that the blame falls in the military leadership at the time.

 

[Captain03]

azad kashmir is really azad
i was there this summer and i did not see any restrictions on anyone
i went to both the city and towns and did not see any objection or protest what so ever

 

[Nemesis]

None of you, and i mean none of you have countered the arguments made in the opening thread. Instead, you all have tried to deflect the argument by highlighting the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. Sorry, but there are already a million threads on India's "oppression" of Kashmir. This is about the so called Azad Kashmir.

Please answer the charges made on the opening thread -

Is it not true that the Pakistani establishment handpicks the PM of Kashmir? That the Parliament of Pakistan can dismiss any law made by the Legislative assembly of Azad Kashmir? That the head of the Azad Kashmir council is actually the President of Pakistan and not the Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir? That the Mangla Dam accounts for over 65% of Pakistan's electricity needs and yet Azad Kashmir receives less than negligible returns? That the Pakistani government is forcefully relocating Afghans to Azad Kashmir and thereby altering the demographics of the area?

Comparing this to the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir, are you people aware that no resident of any other Indian state can own land or reside in Jammu and Kashmir? That the Legislative assembly has the power to over-rule any law made by the Indian Parliament? That J&K has one of the biggest budgets (in comparison to number of people residing in the state) in India?

These are important questions. Since our Pakistani members keep reminding us, let us also remind them that Azad Kashmir is also disputed territory.

You claim to know how Kashmiris really feel, but then admit you haven't met any Kashmiris or been there too many times Kashmir (probably went to some BSF garrison town at that). I have, to Azad Kashmir. I have never met a single Kashmiri that was pro-India and anti-Pakistan, either from Azad Kashmir or Indian Occupied Kashmir, and I have met more than most of you combined.

So you claim to have met more Kashmiri's than most of us combined? This despite the fact that since we claim the state as our own and consider it our territory, we in all probability would have had far greater interaction with Kashmiris than a Pakistani.

I've met a lot of Kashmir's, not only Muslims but Hindus as well. Buddhists too, if we count Ladhakh (and somehow no one seems to remember Ladhakh). While some of them, especially the Kashmiri University crowd, want to be separate from India. None of them wish to be part of Pakistan. They want independence from both.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

None of you, and i mean none of you have countered the arguments made in the opening thread. Instead, you all have tried to deflect the argument by highlighting the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. Sorry, but there are already a million threads on India's "oppression" of Kashmir. This is about the so called Azad Kashmir.

Please answer the charges made on the opening thread -

Is it not true that the Pakistani establishment handpicks the PM of Kashmir? That the Parliament of Pakistan can dismiss any law made by the Legislative assembly of Azad Kashmir? That the head of the Azad Kashmir council is actually the President of Pakistan and not the Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir? That the Mangla Dam accounts for over 65% of Pakistan's electricity needs and yet Azad Kashmir receives less than negligible returns? That the Pakistani government is forcefully relocating Afghans to Azad Kashmir and thereby altering the demographics of the area?

Comparing this to the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir, are you people aware that no resident of any other Indian state can own land or reside in Jammu and Kashmir? That the Legislative assembly has the power to over-rule any law made by the Indian Parliament? That J&K has one of the biggest budgets (in comparison to number of people residing in the state) in India?

These are important questions. Since our Pakistani members keep reminding us, let us also remind them that Azad Kashmir is also disputed territory.

1. Azad Kashmir President is elected by the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly

"MUZAFFARABAD (AJK): Candidate of Muslim Conference Raja Zulqarnain Khan was elected as the new President of Azad Kashmir on Thursday.

The polling started this morning in Muzaffarabad at admin department of the AJK Assembly wherein Raja Zulqarnain Khan bagged 40 votes to win while People’s Party candidate got only eight votes.

Members of Azad Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly as well as Kashmir Council took part in polling which lasted till 3 O’clock in the afternoon."

Pakistan Times | Top Story: Raja Zulqarnain elected new President of Azad Kashmir

2. Azad Kashmir Prime Minister is elected by the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly.

"MUZAFFARABAD: Raja Mohammad Farooq Haider was sworn in as the 9th prime minister of Azad Jammu and Kashmir here on Thursday after the Legislative Assembly elected him as leader of the house by a clear majority. The oath was administered by AJK President Raja Zulqarnain Khan at the President’s House."

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Farooq Haider elected AJK prime minister

3. I am not aware of the Pakistani parliament being able to dismiss any law in Azad Kashmir, perhaps you can elaborate on that.

4. Azad Kashmir does get royalties from Mangla and will get more from other upcoming hydel projects. Do they get too little? That is subjective, based on whatever negotiations were held between the AK and Pakistani administrations, and not necessarily different than the stingy relationship between the Federation and the provinces, where the Federal government wants to give as little as necessary to the provinces. That may change with the most recent NFC award being negotiated, and that may also reflect upon the royalties AK and G-B receive/will receive.

5. I am unaware of 'forceful relocation of Afghans' to AK - the demographic content of the population of AK continues to largely reflect the original composition.

There were some stories of Zia settling families from outside G-B in the region, that even caused riots, but that appears to have been a short lived experiment and the demographic composition of G-B too remains close to the original as much as one can tell.

 

[Nemesis]

Appreciate the response AM.

1. Azad Kashmir President is elected by the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly

"MUZAFFARABAD (AJK): Candidate of Muslim Conference Raja Zulqarnain Khan was elected as the new President of Azad Kashmir on Thursday.

The polling started this morning in Muzaffarabad at admin department of the AJK Assembly wherein Raja Zulqarnain Khan bagged 40 votes to win while People’s Party candidate got only eight votes.

Members of Azad Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly as well as Kashmir Council took part in polling which lasted till 3 O’clock in the afternoon."

Pakistan Times | Top Story: Raja Zulqarnain elected new President of Azad Kashmir

2. Azad Kashmir Prime Minister is elected by the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly.

"MUZAFFARABAD: Raja Mohammad Farooq Haider was sworn in as the 9th prime minister of Azad Jammu and Kashmir here on Thursday after the Legislative Assembly elected him as leader of the house by a clear majority. The oath was administered by AJK President Raja Zulqarnain Khan at the President’s House."

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Farooq Haider elected AJK prime minister

Is it not written in the constitution of Azad Kashmir that those contesting elections have to sign a declaration affirming AKs accession to Pakistan?

Part 2 of Section 7 of the Constitution states: No person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the States accession to Pakistan.

Under Section 5(2) (vii) of the Legislative Assembly Election Ordinance 1970, a person would be disqualified for propagating any opinion or action in any manner prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan, the ideology of AK's accession to Pakistan, or the sovereignty and integrity of Pakistan. The same caveat applies to anyone who defames or brings into ridicule the judiciary of AJK, of Pakistan, or the Armed Forces of Pakistan.

3. I am not aware of the Pakistani parliament being able to dismiss any law in Azad Kashmir, perhaps you can elaborate on that.

The opening article of the thread implies that the President of Pakistan has the power to dismiss the Prime Minister and President of AK. Indeed, this has happened a few times.

In 1991, AK's Prime Minister, Mumtaz Rathore was dismissed, arrested and flown by helicopter to a Pakistani prison in 1991. In the 1996 elections in AK, parties and candidates who wished to participate on the platform of independence and refused to sign the declaration calling AKs accession to Pakistan an article of faith, were denied the right to field candidates. The oath of office for the President, PM, Minister, Speaker, MLA or MLC of AK clearly includes the following clause: That I will remain loyal to the country (Pakistan)and the cause of accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to Pakistan.

Moreover, the budget and other important state matters are under the control of the AK council, headed not by either the President or Prime Minister of AK but by the President of Pakistan. However, both President and PM of AK are members.

I am unaware of 'forceful relocation of Afghans' to AK - the demographic content of the population of AK continues to largely reflect the original composition.

The allegation is asserted by the opening article on the thread. That of Afghan refugees being moved to AK.

However, as India considers Gigit and the Northern areas as part of J&K, the demographic shift has been seen mostly in these areas. According to one report, about 40% of Gilgit's population is made up of people outside the state.

Source - "Azad Kashmir" and "Northern Territories" or Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (***)?

 

[MarkTheTruth]

response to the original writeup.

The writer may also noticed the number of Kashmiris in UK and may also noticed that most of them from Azad Kashmir. The Kashmiris from occupied Kashmir are far less than how many they should be. As the population of Occupied Kashmir AKA Indian held Kashmir is far more than Azad Kashmir. Why is that? Is that because the Kashmiris in Occupied Kashmir are enjoying a healthy and wealthy life? Is that because it is Pak army which is raping Kashmiri women and not Indian army? Is it because it is Pak government looting resources of Kashmir and not Indian gov? Is it because it is Pakistan, which landed more than 6,00,000 army in Kashmir and not India?

The Kashmiris in foreign countries are unitly struggling for the right of self determination. Hmmm. If fake indian writers and their stupid government thinkt hat Kashmiri people love them so much than why you do not give them the right of self determination and shut their mouths? Why you have a need to plant 600 K military their? Did you have borders with Pakistan or China, only in Kashmir?

This write up is good piece of BS and is totally a wastage of time to read.

 

[Iggy]

Nice BS, but still BS, its actually other way around, IA personals are quite eager to "present" themselves as freedom fighters and defame their name, little of the guard but reports are that BRAVE COL PROHIT was learning Arabic for "soul satisfaction", beside that you are telling the world that in the presence of 7 hundred thousand troops some "pretenders" are running around wearing official uniforms and doing what you claimed they did, just think about it for a moment, enough evidence has already been provided.[/QUOTE]

Mate one of your freedom fighter was killed by a mere lady with her axe.I dont called it as a so called love to freedom fighters and also you can see many villagers getting defense training from the Army..Is this because they had love for the so called freedom fighters??The so called freedom fighters are doing all kind of cruelties around there and no one is bothered to collect data about it..Instead living in a denial saying that i was done by our ARMY to defame the freedom fighters..

And one more question what are the people from other countries doing there?Brainwashing them in the name of religion and sending them to kill innocent people is not freedom fighting in my dictionary..
I am not saying that our Army men are saints but like i posted in some other thread there was a picture posted here about some Kashmiries celebrating Independence day of Pakistan..In some of the snaps there were small children also present..Do you think if our Army was that cruel they will dare to celebrate this in public..and even if they do they will risk their childrens life for this??

 

[EjazR]

NC leader supports pre-1953 status to J-K

SRINAGAR:A senior National Conference leader today said the restoration of pre-1953 position to Jammu and Kashmir would prove foundation for the resolution of the Kashmir issue, a couple of days after a prominent Sikh leader made similar suggestions.

"Every suggestion for resolution of Kashmir issue passes through restoration of 1953 position to the state," senior NC leader and uncle of Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, Sheikh Mustafa Kamal said, commenting on the statement of President of Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar) Simaranjit Singh Mann.

Mann had yesterday advised separatists not to enter into dialogue with New Delhi unless the 1953 position was restored to the state.

On August 9,1953 Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah was deposed of the prime ministership and arrested in connection with Kashmir conspiracy case. Before that, the state had its own Prime Minister and Sader-e-Riyasat, and the Central Government had control only over defence, communication and currency.

Kamal said it was the duty of all parties which will participate in the proposed talks with the Centre that they should "not only talk for restoration of 1953 position but also take practical measures to attain this position in its original shape.

 

[UnitedPak]

both india and pakistan got their independence from the british through non violent means.

if the kashmiri will for independence is so strong they can do so the same way.

violence can not be condoned at all
it can not be condoned even if it is in response to violence.
prove yourself better by not being dragged down to the level of the violence perpetuators

Kashmiris were promised a referendum. They peacefully waited for 40 years before a rigged election triggered violent uprisings.

For most Indian members the dispute is simply about clinging on to a piece of land for the sake of their egos. At least they recognise this as being an occupation. Kashmir is regarded as something to be tied to India.

Its a shame many Indians dont know about Junagadh or Hyderabad. If they did, we would hear very few rants about Maharajah Hari Singh acceding to India.

 

[third eye]

Kashmiris were promised a referendum. They peacefully waited for 40 years before a rigged election triggered violent uprisings.

For most Indian members the dispute is simply about clinging on to a piece of land for the sake of their egos. At least they recognise this as being an occupation. Kashmir is regarded as something to be tied to India.

Its a shame many Indians dont know about Junagadh or Hyderabad. If they did, we would hear very few rants about Maharajah Hari Singh acceding to India.

As regards Jungadh & Hyd, India learnt a lesson from Pk who sent in troops into J&K ASAP even before the UN resolutions were even thought of. India simply replicated what Pk did.

There is no ego issue as far as India & J&K is concerned. Its simply a case of a state that acceded to India & shall stay that way forever.

Which area are we talking of for refrendum ? The part acceded to China by Pk, Aksai Chin which is held by China ? Gilgit , Skadru ?

Things have changed beyond recognition, In any case the UN resolution was / is not enforceable.

 

[AHMED85]

the reasons i think are

1] india is an imperial colonial power, just look at whats happening in northeast,jharkand and other maoist infected areas.

2] india is an evil empire ,in disguise of seculerism, govt of india is helping fanatic terror groups like shivsina,dharmasina,rss etc to eliminate all the minorities and make inda a hindu rashtra. one should remember the present govt of congress known to be a SECULER PARTY WAS THE REASON FOR DEHLI MASSACE AND OPERATION BLUE STAR

3] any concession to kashmir means ,indians have to give the same to other more than 14 states who are fighting for their God gifted right. so KASHMIRIS SHOULD FORGET INDEPENDENCE BECAUSE THEIR INDEPENDENCE MEANS DISINTEGRATION OF INDIA EMPIRE.

4] the attitude of indians clearly REFLECTS THAT THEY ARE NOT INTRESTED IN KASHMIRI PPL AND THEY CAN ARRANGE A NEW GENOCIDE TO ELEMINATE ALL MUSLIM KASHMIRIES SO THAT NO ONE SHOWS DISSENT. FROM INDIAN VIEW POINT KASHMIRI LAND IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE POOR MUSLIM INHABITANTS.

5] the indian GOVT THINKS IT IS A BIG MARKET AND GREAT POWERS HAVE GREAT INTREST IN ITS MARKET. SO THEY CAN EASILY GET AWAY FROM GENOCIDE OF KASHMIRIES AND GROSS HUMAN RIGHT ABUSES AGAINST POPULATION.

6.] THE KASHMIR FREEDOM STRUGGLE HAS CAUSED GREAT LOSSES TO INDIAN EMPIRE. INDIAN ARMY AND PARAMILITARIES ARE TURNING MENTAL CASES. ACCORDING TO INDIAN CHEIF 100 SOLDIERS ON THE AVERAGE COMMIT SUSIDE EVERY YEAR AND 250 ALONE COMMITED SUSIDE OR KILLED THEIR FELLOWS IN 2005. SIMILARLY DUE TO MENTAL BANKRUPSY INDIANS ARE ACQUISEING NEIGHBORS EVEN SPREADING AIDS IN THE RANKS JUST TO HIDE THE SHAME AND DISHONOR OF THEIR ARMIES ACTS AND CONDUCTS.THERE FORE ITS QUITE VISIBLE THAT INDIA A HOLLOW NUCLEAR POWER WILL NEVER GIVE KASHMIRIS WHAT THEY WANT. IT WILL ELIMINATE THEM ALL IF THEY KEEP ON ASKING FREEDOM BUT WILL NEVER COMPLY WITH WISHES OF REPRESSED PPL

india is illegalay occuping kashmir. it want to occupy azad kashmir and our northern areas also so that
1] it could have link to central asia, remember the wakhan belt[afghanistan] which is only few km between us and cental asia

2] india want to cut the link between us and china

its a realist world where strategic and national intrest are more precious than low of morality or religon.

pro peace propoganda by indians is only a time gaining and diverting tactics.

do you think if we agree on loc as permanent boarder. peace will prevail and kashmir issue will end?????????????

no it will never
read the indian history read how indians occupied independent states of sikkim, jnagarh, hyderabad etc.

the problem with us is that although we have 1000 year of experence we still fail to understand enemies thought process and how he acts

my dear i stand with you in this regard
so India will leave Kashmir for his stability in earth
Indian peace and i think the whole Asian peace require Kashmir revolution and Kashmir is integral part of Pakistan so all Pakistan youth is solders for Kashmir
InshahAllah Kashmir escape from Indian cruel ambition of dominant

 

[Developereo]

Ask and ye shall receive.

Sure, you didn't say 'Pakistan should decide the Kashmiris' future'. But you sure did imply that Pakistan has decided on its part of Kashmir.

If it is so, then it certainly was decided by Pakistan and Pakistan alone, because surely it was not decided by Kashmiris.

Then you clarified that this decision was based on lack of 'comparable movement in Azad Kashmir seeking independence from Pakistan'. That, lack of 'comparable movement' qualifies as a criteria for determining 'ownership', is your and only your proposition. Not of Kashmiris.

Wrong.

Pathetic attempt to twist words to salvage your untenable position.

There has never been any conflict within Azad Kashmir. Pakistan doesn't need to position 600,000 troops to brutally suppress the local population. To even begin to compare Azad Kashmir with Indian Occupied Kashmir is laughable.

If the people of Azad Kashmir demand a plebiscite and an option to secede from Pakistan, then Pakistan should honor that request. Until then, your attempt at sophistry won't work.

My case rests.

Not much of a case. Only an evasive reply to duck the real issue of India's denial to Kashmiris of their right to self-determination.

My previous experience tells me, you are now going to play the semantics game, something in the line of, '...but hey, I meant this, not that'

My meaning is crytal clear. It is you who seems to have trouble sticking with the issue and create diversions when unable to respond to the matter at hand.

 

[EjazR]

@Developereo

There were no "600,000" troops (a combination of IA, para military and local police) before '89. They are needed mainly because of a full fledged proxy war which has almost come to an end. The final stage would be dismantling and arresting members of the UJC based in muzaffarabad that is a loose 'network of networks' of various kashmir centric groups.

I am completely against IA or even para military being situated in civilian areas, but the post 89 situation could not be handled by the local police just like the tribal and SWAT areas could not be countered by the local police there. The PA is not involved in widespread "suppressing" of population. Although Taliban sympathizers may claim otherwise.

You assume that GoP will willingly cede azad kashmir and the newly named Gilgit-Baltistan province when evidence is to the contrary. From the beginning it was Pakistan that denied the independence option in the UN council resolution, not India. And when the JKLF which was leading the secular pro-Independence struggle was dominant in the 90s, it was Pakistani based pseudo-Islamic militant groups that assassinated most of their leaders along with pro-Indian Kashmiris.