Kashmir: Declare Ahmadis non-Muslims: Grand Mufti

[Tshering22]

Kashmir: Declare Ahmadis non-Muslims: Grand Mufti

who is recognised by both the state government and the Centre as official 'Mufti Azam' or Grand Mufti of Jammu and Kashmir

Why am I not surprised...

 

[fallstuff]

The Indian hindu folks are generously exprssing their opinion about Islam.

The police is guarding an Ahmedia location providing protection. The same cops will activly help hindu mob if they want to burn it down in one of those riots.

The irony !!

 

[Tshering22]

The Indian hindu folks are generously exprssing their opinion about Islam.

The police is guarding an Ahmedia location providing protection. The same cops will activly help hindu mob if they want to burn it down in one of those riots.

The irony !!

Our country is not run by some tin pot mulla to take law into their hands. This mufti has no authority of declaring anyone something that will result in a threat to them.

We are not an Islamic country and therefore your methods don't apply to our nation.

 

[Meesna]

What Muslims need to do is create a global council of fiqh (jurisprudence) where every Muslim population/community of any size will send their representative Ulama including Ahmadi's. Then we should let this council reach consensus on these matters.

Or we can go for a secular system which does not care what anyone believes for a large part, like developed countries.

However the last time these maulanas were asked to give the definition a Muslim it became very messy as Justices Munir and Kiyani noticed;

Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental. If we attempt our own definition as each learned divine has done and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim but kafirs according to the definition of every one else.

Page 218 - Justice Munir/Kiyani Report on Punjab Anti-Ahmadiyya Riots of 1953

Justice Munir/Kiyani Report on Punjab Anti-Ahmadiyya Riots of 1953

If maulanas cannot even agree on the definition of a Muslim what resolution can be expected?

 

[clmeta]

Well if anyone should be flushed down the toilet, it should that mufti. Ahmedis will remain Muslims in India until the time they declare themselves a different religion. Indians don't rate Muslims on how pure and good Muslims they are unlike Pakistan where Taliban to Army to govt to Taseer's killer, everybody has his own equipment to rate who is how true a Muslim.

Yah........ And the Kashmiris have flushed your constitution down the toilet as well, literally........

The mufti made the point of Ahmadis to be declared non Muslim and now he will know better then recognising the Indian stance on this and as such, it is good for the Kashmiris that they will see through the Indian deceipts..........

An again, you are referring to the same Goras who are giving you aid, charity, beg money, let's not forget........... Both India and Pakistan are in this category so try not to show yourself any better.

Back to the point of Ahmadis, they are and always will be non Muslims and despite whether this is in law or not, anywhere in he world, they are not seen by Muslims as Muslim and as such not integrated with on that level. Dawah is done yes, only in contradicting the claims of their leader, who happened to claim he was the Lord Krishna among many things......... Indians and Hindus don't follow the scriptures here but we Muslims do and wish to continue to do so, yes we have black sheep within our community, like any other, nonetheless we follow scriptures as a whole way of our life, not part........

 

[Thor]

Well if anyone should be flushed down the toilet, it should that mufti. Ahmedis will remain Muslims in India until the time they declare themselves a different religion. Indians don't rate Muslims on how pure and good Muslims they are unlike Pakistan where Taliban to Army to govt to Taseer's killer, everybody has his own equipment to rate who is how true a Muslim.

Ahmadis are the biggest enemies of Islam and Pakistan. Their treachery runs deep into the history of Pakistan especially during the British Raj of India where the so called prophet turned messiah turned Krishna of Ahmadis showed his absolute loyalty to the British and claimed to be their seedling. Ahmadis are by law non Muslims in Pakistan after the demand of the local Muslims there through protest. One needs to understand why this law was passed in the first place.

Ahmadis always claimed they were Muslim and that they should have the same rights in religious practice to any other Muslim. However the Imams and religious scholars, including past famous people like Allama Iqbal warned about the Ahmadis long ago. Now, Pakistan is a Islamic republic and as such it's Constitution makes clear that part 2a states that Allah is the most supreme and take as its sovereign. With this in light, Allahs command is supreme and non can contradict that.

The scholars challenged Ahmadis after clear attempts made by Ahmadis to decieve young and old ignorant Muslims who knew little or nothing about Islam itself. They were misguided in the belief that Ahmadiyyat was a part of Islam. However the Ahmadis failed to mention that they were the treasonous branch claiming to be Muslim who helped in the suppression of their fellow Muslim, Sikhs, Hindus in British India, they failed to mention that their so called leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed he was the Imam Mahdi, and the Promised Messiah. He claimed he was Jesus, son of Mary and not the original Jesus to came as believed by Christians and Muslims, and he used absolute f1lthy language against the family of Christ, including calling his maternal parents as prostitutes. They never showed that he claimed to be the reincarnated prophet Muhammadhimself and that he sat equal to Allah himself.

By caused huge outrage and would have led to much death and destruction. In order to show unbias, the then leader of Ahmadis was asked to come to the house of parliament and explain his beliefs and Ahmadiyyat to enlighten the politicians. It was when he was asked that Ahmadis see Muslims as Kaffir and refuse to pray to their funerals, even that of children and he confirmed this as a fact, only then did they realise about Ahmadiyyat.

Hence the law was passed to prevent Ahmadiyyat from continuing its fraud and treachery in Pakistan and stop them from misguiding innocent people. Also this would appease the protesters at the time who wanted to go to expulsion and all sorts. A satisfying law was passed and here we are today.

Ahmadis will be seen as non Muslim wherever they are and India is no special. We could care less what Hindus think as we intend to follow our religion. Yes we have black sheep in our community just like every other, nonetheless, if one wishes to compare religions to see who has killed more then the other in the name of religion then that test too can be bought forward. It may be quite embarrassing though. As stated above, we like to discuss our religion amongst ourselves, not hear Hindus as they worship in direct violation of their own religion and products of its own manufacture, so please spare me your poisoners advice, it's nothing more then pathetic.

 

[Thor]

So what exactly do the Ahmadis believe that makes Muslims declare them as non-Muslim. Well the following is from the Ahmadi text written by the so called self appointed Prophet. Firstly with the timeline of this man called Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

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1839/40 - Mirza is born to Chiragh Bibi and Ghulam Murtaza

1846 - Formal education of Quran, Hadith etc begins at home by Molvi Fazl Ilahi

1849 - Molvi Fazal Ahmad teaches various subjects.

1852/53 - 1st Marriage with Hurmat Bibi alias Phajje di Maan. She bore two sons, Sultan Ahmad and Fazal Ahmad.

1857/58 - Gul Ali Shah teaches Arabic Grammar etc.

1857 - War of Independence, the so-called Indian Mutiny.
* To prove his loyalty to The British Raj, Mirza's father donates 50 Armed Horsemen to fight against the Muslims in the War of Independence.
* Mirza Ghulam Qadir, elder brother of Mirza Ghulam, who served in the 46th Division of the British Army under Gen Nicholson, killed several freedom fighters near Sialkot.

1864 - Mirza runs away from home with the yearly pension of his father and spends it in undesirable pursuits.

1864-68 - Mirza takes up a clerical post in the British Govt. Court at Sialkot.
* Takes up the Law exam but failed.
* Mirza befriends a Christian Padre, who later on played a role

1868 - A Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry came from England to find out ways and means to control and subdue the spirit of Jihad amongst the Muslims.
* Mirza resigns from his job and left for Qadian
* Introduces himself as a Debator in Islam.

1870 - Report of Parliamentary Commission 'The Arrival of British Empire in India' submitted to the British Parliament. Report recommended creating an Apostolic Prophet to subdue the Spirit of Jihad in Muslims.

1871 - Mirza Ghulam selected for the 'post' of Apostolic Prophet.

1877 - Criminal case registered against him by postal authorities.

1879 - Claims to have been 'Appointed by God' to proves the truthfulness of Islam
* Announcement of writing Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya in 50 volumes.
* Appeals for financial help and advance payments for publication of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya.

1879-84 - Publishes four volumes of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya.

1884 - onwards
* Stops writing Braheen-e-ahmadiyya.
* Writes books after books, wrote some 80 books over the next 25 years.
* Refers to Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya as the book of God.

1884 - Claims to be Revivalist (Mujaddid) of Islam.
* 2nd Marriage to Shahjehan Begum d/o Mir Nasir Nawab, from whom three sons, Mirza Bashiruddin Mehmood (2nd Khalifa and father of Mirza Tahir, the present Khalifa), Mirza Bashir Ahmad (author of Seerat-ul-Mahdi) and Mirza Sharif Ahmad were born.
* Admits being impotent at the time of 2nd Marriage. Prays to God for sexual powers. God sends his Wahi for making a divine potion.
* Upon Divine instructions, makes a potion called 'TIRYAQ-e-ILAHI' to regain his 'energy'. Major component is 'OPIUM'.

1888 - Start taking oath of allegiance (Peeri-Mureedi) by the people.
* Asks for the hand of Mohammadi Begum for his 3rd Marriage.
* Advertises that his 3rd Marriage with Mohammadi Begum is a divinely inspired proposal and that any hinderance from any quarter will result in Tragic Consequences for the girl, her family and the person to whom she is married.
* Mirza Ghulam announced: This should be clear to people that there can be no bette r criterion to judge my truth or falsehood than my prophecy." (Aina-e-Kamalate Islam, Roohani Khazain vol 5 p.288, by Mirza Ghulam)
* Mirza threatens his 1st wife and her sons of dire consequences for not helping in the marriage with Mohammadi Begum.

1891 - Claims to be A Maseel Messiah (Like Messiah) and denies that he is the Promised Messiah. Labels those who accused him of it, as Liars

1891 - Claims to have become Mariam.
* Claims to have become pregnant by the insufflation of the soul of Eisa (Jesus).
* Claims to have converted to Eisa after staying for 10 months in his own (Maryam's) womb. Says: "This is how I am Jesus son of Mary."
(Kishtee Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol 19 p. 50)

1891 - Establishes Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam.

1892 - Mohammadi Begum got married to Mirza Sultan Baig.
In retaliation, Mirza:
* divorces his first wife.
* forces his one son to divorce his wife.
* disinherits his second son.
[PS His first wife was related to Mohammadi Begum.]

1893 - Challenged Deputy Commissioner Abdullah Khan Atham, a Christian Missionary, for a written debate to prove the truthfulness of either religion.
* Feb 1893
Mirza declared: "Everyone has accepted me and affirmed my claims, except Children of Prostitutes, whose hearts have been sealed by God."
(Aina-e-Kamalate Islam, Roohani Khazain vol 5 p.548)

Note: Mirza's own sons from the first marriage had not accepted him as Messiah!!
22nd May -5th June '93
Written debate with Atham.
Mirza receives humiliating defeat. As a result, many Muslims become Christians!
Unrepentant, Mirza issues the Divine Prophecy of Atham's death within 15 months (by 5th Sept 1894). He said: "I admit that if this prophecy turns out to be false... I am prepared to receive any punishment, I should be disgraced, my face blackened, put a rope around my neck and hang me... I swear upon God t hat He will definitely fulfilled it, definitely fulfill it, fulfill it. Earth and heavens can move but God's word will not be annulled." (Jang-e-Muqqaddas, Roohani Khazain vol 6 p.293)

Apr 1894 - Atham is still alive. Several attempts made on the life of Atham by unknown persons.

4th Sept 1894 - Magic Bullet: Mirza recites a wazeefa over gram seeds and throws them in an abandoned well to kill Atham.

6th Sept 1894 - Christains celebrated the victory of Abdullah Atham and ridiculed and lampooned Islam - thanks to Mirza Ghulam!!.

1896 - Reiterates the divine origin of the Prophecy and Marriage with Mohammdi Begum. He said: "If I am a Liar, my death will come and this prophecy will not be fulfilled. "(Anjame Atham)

* He published this revelation: "and they ask thee if this is true? Say: Yes, By my Lord, it is true and you cannot prevent it from taking place. We have wed thee to her. There is none to change my words." (Asmani Faisla)

27th July 1896 - Declares that paternal and maternal grandmothers Jesus Christ were Prostitutes, from whose blood his was born and that was the reason for Jesus' inclination towards prostitutes!!

1897 - Petition to the British Govt.
* Thanksgiving to Queen Victoria on her Silver Jubilee of Coronation.
* Case against Mirza by Income Tax authorities.
* House search by police on suspicion of murder of Pundit Lekhram, criminal case against him and his acquittal.

1898/99 - Petition to Lt Governor of Punjab reminding him that:
* His forefathers have always been loyal servants.
* He himself is the SELF IMPLANTED & SELF CULTIVATED SEEDLING of the British Raj.
* From his early age till now when he is 65 years of age, he has been engaged with his pen and tongue to turn the hearts of Muslims towards true love and goodwill for the British and to remove the concept of Jehad from the hearts of stupid Muslims.
* Criminal case against Mirza a to keep peace.

1900 - Mirza Abrogates Jihad.
Named his followers 'Ahmadis' and instructs them to use the same nomenclature for census.

1900 - Claimed prophethood.

25th May 1900 - Mirza Ghulam announces that all those who do not accept him as prophet are disobedient of God and His Prophet and will dwell in hellfire.

1901 - Mirza has still not forgotten Mohammadi Begum. Issues yet another statement that events will take strange turn and she will inevitably come into his wedlock as these are divinely ordained matters.

1902 - Finally to give some reprieve to the poor Mohammadi Begum, some Muslims thought of a novel idea. Jaafer Zitly published the following in his newspaper: "I saw in my dream that wife of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani is going to come into my wedlock!!"

Mirza was struck dumb. After that he never said a word about Mohammadi Begum until his death in
1908. Mohammadi Begum lived happily with her husband for the next 40 years.
8th Nov

1902 - Mirza announces: "The basis for my claims is not Hadiths but Quran and my own revelation; in support we also cite those Hadiths which do not contradict my revelation. All the rest of Hadiths, I throw them away like a waste paper." (Zamima Nuzoole Maseeh, Roohani Khazain vol 19 p.140)

1903 - Constructs Minarat-ul-Maseeh in Qadian, 12 years after becoming the Promised Messiah!!

1904 - Claims to be the Lord Krishna of Hindus.

1905 - Establishes the Heavenly Graveyard in Qadian.

1906 - Admits having been afflicted by Mental Illness and Excessive Urination of upto 100 times per day, since the time of claiming to have been appointed by God (1879)

1907 - Prayer Duel with Molvi Sanaullah Amratsari.

* Advertises his prayer in Newspapers whereby he prays to God AlMighty to let the Liar die in the lifetime of truthful and that the liar's death should either be from Cholera or Plague, which in his opinion was the sign of Divine Anger.
* Claims that God has named him Mohammed and Ahmad 26 years ago in Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. (Haqeeqatul Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol 22 p.502)
* Claims that God has revealed 300,000 signs to substantiate his claims.

15th May 1907 - Claims that following verses of Holy Quran, revealed in the Honour and Glory of Holy Prophet Mohammed SAAW, have now been revealed in Mirza's honour:

* Verse 7:17
* Verse 55:1
* Verse 9:33
* Verse 53:9
* Verse 17:1
* Verse 3:31
* Verse 48:10
* Verse 48:1
* Verse 73:15
* Verse 107:1
* Verse 36:3
(Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol 22)

Claims that God has named him after every prophet. Therefore, he said:

"I am Adam, I am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Isaac, I am Jacob, I am Ishmael, I am Moses, I am David, I am Eisa son of Maryam, I am Mohammed...(Peace be upon Them)."
(Haqeeqatul Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol 22 p. 521)

1908 - Publishes the fifth volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. In its preface he wrote: "Initially I had promised to write it in 50 volumes. Since the difference between 5 and 50 is only ZERO, my promised is now fulfilled after writing the 5th volume.

1908 - Mirza gives a reception to the Financial Commissioner Punjab
* DEATH: Mirza suddenly develops Cholera. With remorse and disappointment he uttered his last words to his father in law:

"Mir Sahib! I have developed Epidemic Cholera." He could not utter any words after that and died within a short time.
* Mohammadi Begum lived happily with her husband for next 35 years.
* Molvi Sanaullah Amratsari lived for the next 40 years.

1908 - Hakeem Nuruddin becomes the 1st Successor.

1914 - Hakeem Nuruddin fell from the horse and died.
Mirza Basheeruddin Mehmood, s/o Mirza Ghulam, becomes the 2nd Khalifa.

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Now lets see what this man Mirza Ghulam Ahmad says about Jesus (PBUH) and like before I wish that the thread starter Meesna himself to come and answer as he finds it useful to open such threads, sit in the sidelines, read all the posts and disappear when he has no answers. As yes Meesna, its not hard to check that as your name appears in the box below as to who is on this thread.....

So lets have your answers to the following of your MGA text and scriptures

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"It should be remembered that he (Jesus) had also to some extent the habit of lying." (Zamima Anjam Atham, Roohani Khazain Vol 11 p. 289)

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"(Jesus) had the habit of uttering obscenities and frequently using foul language." (Zamima Anjam-e-Atham, Roohani Khazain , Vol 11 p.289)

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"What is your opinion about the character of the Messiah? (it is that Jesus ) was an Alcoholic and Gluttonous person, neither Abstinent nor a Pious Worshipper, nor a Truth seeker. He was a Proud and a Self- conceited Claimant of Divinity." (Nur-ul-Quran, Roohani Khazain Vol 9 p.387)

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"The root cause of all the damage that alcohol consumption has had on the Europeans was that Jesus used to drink alcohol, perhaps because of some disease or an old habit." (Kashti-e-Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol 19 p.71)

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"(while on the cross) Jesus could not portray himself as pious man because people knew he was gluttonous alcoholic and these bad habits were not ever since claiming divinity but it seems from early age he had (these habits). Therefore to claim divinity is one of the bad after effects of alcoholism." (Satt bachan, Roohani Khazain vol 10 p 296)

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"Jesus had an inclination for prostitutes, perhaps due to his ancestral relationship with them, otherwise no pious man could allow a young prostitute to touch his head with her f1lthy hands, and massage his head with the unclean perfume purchased with the earnings of adultery and rub his feet with her hair. Let the intelligent judge what sort of character such a person must possess." (Zamimah Anjam Atham, Roohani Khazain Vol 11 p.291)

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"It is surprising that Jesus, peace be upon him, did not himself act upon the teachings of good character." (Chashma-e-Masihi, Roohni Khazain vol 20 p.346)

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"The Christians have written about many miracles of (Jesus) but the fact is that he did not perform any miracle." (Zamima Anjam-e-Atham, Roohani Khazain vol 11 p.290)

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MORE TO COME, THIS WILL SUFFICE FOR NOW and hope to see answers Meesna which when faced with silence from you then this will tell you why muslims declare you Non Muslims.............

 

[miss]

when prophet mohammad said what he thought was right, many were against him. but eventually he convinced them thru conquest and thru speech. similarly this guy can also be a prophet even without fighting.
if you believe that prophet wass spoken to by god, then why dont you believe this guy?

 

[Saif_ullah]

This is India, Not some Arab country. Here Shia, Sunni, Ahmedi, Bohra all are Muslim. If this Hatemonger want Ahmedi to be declared non Muslim, I will suggest him to learn "Pole Vaulting"..


This kind of Stupid ideas will not tolerated in "Land of free".

Due to ppl like him, Azim's father rejected Jinna's offer...

Its kashmir not India

 

[SamantK]

Religion does not boundry related..... As a muslim if you will bow infront of anyone other than Allah you are doing shirk and you are not muslim..... You calling yourself muslim sure give the idea how minority view and religion are being manipulated and the basic spirit of Islam being torn... I dont want to go deep into this because my reply can hurt hindu religion followers and i am trying to avoid that.... And i expect the same.... If you dont know about religion Islam dont discuss it.....For the starters You are not a muslim if you dont believe and act as per first kalma.


@ Austerlitz....

You are calling a religious belief "Bakwass"....

See we are not talking bout Islam here, we are talking about India as a country and its laws. If a Hindu says that he is a Muslim , constitution of India will not say no but will provide afford what is the right of a muslim in India. Please dont mix up things and bring about hatred in this thread, comment on the OP and stop going off-topic.

 

[miss]

Its kashmir not India

kashmir is india.

 

[Boobytrap]

actually kashmir valley has a large shia population. Now guess who all want to start a problem in that area

 

[Saif_ullah]

kashmir is india.

kashmir is kashmir not india nor pakistan from the first day it was a separate state indians occupied it

 

[Boobytrap]

kashmir is kashmir not india nor pakistan from the first day it was a separate state indians occupied it

Yeah that's why the maulvi is seeking a change in Indian Constitution and not pakistani/Kashmiri Constitution

#u guys can be sometimes very very funny though

 

[Thor]

Interesting to see that the thread opener Meesna who goes on PDF opening one thread after another about Ahmadiyya can come onto the thread to thank some officers but has no answers with regards to the reason as to why Ahmadis are seen as non Muslim. Well Meesna now you know why......

As for the rest if the posts by I Indians...... Before you raise a finger towards Islam think carefully, we are not the ones who worship everything around us, we are not the ones who drink cow p1ss, place dead bodies into a river which is left to rot where people bath and drink calling it holy water. We are not the ones who make an idol and start to worship it. We don't place an elephants head on a human body and talk about it being a deity. So please spare me your crap, this is the same India who does not allow beef to be eaten by others as it offends the Hindus, yet when it comes to something that offends Muslim then oh well, it's Islam.

I don't know why this Mufti asked for this change in India, as India is not a Muslim country and this should not be expected from non Muslims especially Hindus......