Kashmir: Declare Ahmadis non-Muslims: Grand Mufti

[Thor]

Only an idiot like you can set out to compare religions.You practice yours an i practice mine.
No one's bashing Islam so don't start ranting in your eagerness for Islam defence. It is jahil's like you on the look for clash of civilisations. And yes, that Mufti can kiss my *** I don't give a damn and frankly nobody will.

Firstly, I would like to clarify the spelling error in that post you quoted, it should read "I do not feel good about" and secondly, foolishness appears to generate naturally amongst you Indians here. Who the hell do you pele think you are, you go into a thread and discuss about Islam as whim as you see it, but when I raise similar points raised by Hindus here to their religion, all of a sudden it's offensive to compare andbeyondour understanding. Please get your story correct, if you do not like Hinduism dragged in then don't but in to a conversation about Islam, and of you do, then face the debate and not cry about it you f00l

 

[SamantK]

Firstly, I would like to clarify the spelling error in that post you quoted, it should read "I do not feel good about" and secondly, foolishness appears to generate naturally amongst you Indians here. Who the hell do you pele think you are, you go into a thread and discuss about Islam as whim as you see it, but when I raise similar points raised by Hindus here to their religion, all of a sudden it's offensive to compare andbeyondour understanding. Please get your story correct, if you do not like Hinduism dragged in then don't but in to a conversation about Islam, and of you do, then face the debate and not cry about it you f00l

Dude, no one is disrespecting Islam here dude.. lets end it there!

 

[Thor]

Dude, no one is disrespecting Islam here dude.. lets end it there!

I had been very patient and concentrated my responses to the thread starter about Ahmadiyyah itself however continuous comments about molvi this, mullah that, Islam this and Islamic ways like that forced the conversation to go into the direction of Hinduism as well as Islam. All of a sudden when Hinduism was bought into play they have decided to leave quickly...... Should have thought of that first. Now I would like to apologise to Hindus if I have hurt their feelings, but to make some understand one cannot remain
Passive with no answers.

Now back to the thread starter, Meesna......... Do you have anything to say with regards to the points I raised about Mirza Ghulam Ahmadis who claimed he was Lord Krishna and the sheer insults he has made about Jesus and his family, Mulsims and Hindus in his scriptures. Maybe now you know why Ahmadis aren't seen as Muslim

 

[Lonely Hermit]

I had been very patient and concentrated my responses to the thread starter about Ahmadiyyah itself however continuous comments about molvi this, mullah that, Islam this and Islamic ways like that forced the conversation to go into the direction of Hinduism as well as Islam.

Thor you are filled with so much hatred and negativity i am sorry to dear my sympathies to you.

All of a sudden when Hinduism was bought into play they have decided to leave quickly...... Should have thought of that first. Now I would like to apologise to Hindus if I have hurt their feelings, but to make some understand one cannot remain
Passive with no answers.

Yeah Hinduism was brought into play by some of your country men and most of as responded them.

Now back to the thread starter, Meesna......... Do you have anything to say with regards to the points I raised about Mirza Ghulam Ahmadis who claimed he was Lord Krishna and the sheer insults he has made about Jesus and his family, Mulsims and Hindus in his scriptures. Maybe now you know why Ahmadis aren't seen as Muslim

When i see the state of Pakistan i can easily sum it up by seeing this post you do not understand Indian mentality do you mate.
In India it is very important that we respect each other's belief's and custom.
It is this tolerance that has kept such a diverse country united

Now coming to Ahmadis :
In India they are considered as Muslim because they say they are Muslim's and there belief's will be protected by law.

I don't know what problem you guy's have but Pakistani's i have seen see religion with very narrow mind. Instead of declaring them Muslim's and hating them reason with them if you have disagreement. I only wish good for you and your country but first people like you will have to change the attitude toward's life.

 

[Thor]

Thor you are filled with so much hatred and negativity i am sorry to dear my sympathies to you.


Yeah Hinduism was brought into play by some of your country men and most of as responded them.


When i see the state of Pakistan i can easily sum it up by seeing this post you do not understand Indian mentality do you mate.
In India it is very important that we respect each other's belief's and custom.
It is this tolerance that has kept such a diverse country united

Now coming to Ahmadis :
In India they are considered as Muslim because they say they are Muslim's and there belief's will be protected by law.

I don't know what problem you guy's have but Pakistani's i have seen see religion with very narrow mind. Instead of declaring them Muslim's and hating them reason with them if you have disagreement. I only wish good for you and your country but first people like you will have to change the attitude toward's life.

Don't even know where to begin..... As above, it is people like you who think they are the most wise and best of creation in this world and as such try and show complete and utter foolishness is trying to portray India as a tolerant society. Please Blow that rhetoric up somebody else's nose. You can't even tolerate Dalits let alone people from other religions. And this is where the last debate started about religion.

As I have said before, we have black sheep in our community just like others, it does not mean that Islam should be abused. Hindus and Indians are far from being any beacon of light and just as you point out Pakistan, I can fill this thread with news flashes from around the world of Indias unfair practices which also reflects Hinduism. So please, don't try and think the light shines out of your backside, news flash........it doesn't.

Coming onto the Ahmadis issue, I do not agree with the mufti approaching the Indian authorities on segregating Ahmadis in a non muslim country. But in general, Ahmadis are not Muslim and this argument has been very well argued with even the thread starter Meesna with no reply. Pakistan is in a very unfortunate situation at the moment and going through a bad spat, and this can be seen I any different ways and reasons, nonetheless, it is as muslim country and it is Muslims in Pakistan who have declared Ahmadis as non Muslim and I have given my reasons as to why this is the case above, and an example given is that you claim we have no right by doing so, again a Hindu does not know anything about Islam to make that call, however Hindus should also look at its country first where in a "secular" state, the majority Hindus enforce ban on eating beef..........

 

[kalu_miah]

Indians have been using Big Lie theory for some time, I would say soon after 1947:
Big Lie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.[7]

They have brainwashed their population with their media and unfortunately part of our population also (1947 to today), the result was the breaking of Pakistan in 1971 and making Bangladesh a vassal state. They are pathological liars and do not even know that they are lying, that is how brainwashed they are. Whenever confronted they will squirm and attack, instead of facing the truth. They didn't destroy buddhism in a 2000 year long process by being the saint. Now they have a plan to destroy Islam from the subcontinent and then from the whole world, once they become a "super power". Cunning Indian state is the biggest deceptive govt. on the planet, engaging in a campaign of deception in their country, in their neighbor countries and throughout the world. Indian fan boys in the internet only work as echo chamber for this propaganda.

So my suggestion has always has been to deny them an international space like this website for their propaganda. They should be treated as the enemy of the Pakistani people, which they are and enemy of all Muslims, which they are (much bigger threats than Zionists, who will see sense in the end, in my opinion). And they should be banned at the slightest slip and loss of decorum.

If it was up to me, I would ban all Indians from this site, en mass, so Pakistani's and people from other countries could then have some sane discussions. The other solution is to restrict them to post only at Indian Defense section, which is important for Pakistan, but even there, all you are going to get is misinformation, as they will never provide anything of value.

It is futile to reason or try to debate with them.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Hmm i pissed somebody big time haa

Don't even know where to begin..... As above, it is people like you who think they are the most wise and best of creation in this world

Well definetly more wiser than the person i am responding to who has an unhealthy obsession wit religion and likes to handout certificate about who really deserves to be in his faith who does not.

and as such try and show complete and utter foolishness is trying to portray India as a tolerant society.

My dear if we wouldn't be tolerant do you think a country as diverse as India having many religion and language's would have broken up long time ago.
I am not saying we are some sort perfect society, but Indian's in general like to be tolerant to each other's belief. I personally have gone to a Gurudwara, Hindu temple, Muslim Sufi Shrine and also attended Church service and like me many other Indian's.
Let's take the case of Pakistan a country formed in name of religion had to be partitioned and still you guy's having ethnic clashes in all over Pakistan. Do introspect mate why is it that pPakistani society is tearing itself apart.

Please Blow that rhetoric up somebody else's nose. You can't even tolerate Dalits let alone people from other religions. And this is where the last debate started about religion.

who say's we don't tolerate Dalit's well our constitution was framed by a dalit we had a Dalit President. There is 50%reservation in Goverment and also Govt aided institution for people Daliit's and SC/ST.
and have you ever heard of this great soul
APJ Abdul Kalam the father of our missile program (no need to guess his religion)

As I have said before, we have black sheep in our community just like others,

I can sense a typical paranoid conspiracy theorist .

it does not mean that Islam should be abused.

Nobody is abusing Islam all we are asking is to have a constructive dialog with Ahmai's, Shia's, and what all folks you have disagreement with.

Hindus and Indians are far from being any beacon of light and just as you point out Pakistan, I can fill this thread with news flashes from around the world of Indias unfair practices which also reflects Hinduism. So please, don't try and think the light shines out of your backside, news flash........it doesn't.

Nobody said Hindus are saints mate and i can also fill the thread with news of radical religious fundamentalist like you who are out to destroy the very fabric of Pakistani society with your narrow thinking.

Coming onto the Ahmadis issue, I do not agree with the mufti approaching the Indian authorities on segregating Ahmadis in a non muslim country. But in general, Ahmadis are not Muslim and this argument has been very well argued with even the thread starter Meesna with no reply. Pakistan is in a very unfortunate situation at the moment and going through a bad spat, and this can be seen I any different ways and reasons, nonetheless, it is as muslim country and it is Muslims in Pakistan who have declared Ahmadis as non Muslim and I have given my reasons as to why this is the case above, and an example given is that you claim we have no right by doing so, again a Hindu does not know anything about Islam to make that call, however Hindus should also look at its country first where in a "secular" state, the majority Hindus enforce ban on eating beef..........

Now this is the stance of India, that India will always follow the constitution and no Religion is above the constitution of India.
If the Ahmadis think they are muslim's then they are by law they are considered as one and they will be protected by law.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Here comes the jamati who tries to pretend to be a saint by peddling his bogus theory

Indians have been using Big Lie theory for some time, I would say soon after 1947:
Big Lie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indeed very interesting theory thank's for the link miah it explain's a lot about human behaviour

His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.[7]

Rusty kindly read upper quote as dear Kalu rightfully pointed out this what is applicable to you and humanity as a whole the sort of delusional lie that we live in. We think that our side of story is correct and perfect.
That why people need to introspect about their behaviour and be tolerant about each other belief.

They have brainwashed their population with their media and unfortunately part of our population also (1947 to today), the result was the breaking of Pakistan in 1971 and making Bangladesh a vassal state.

Yar Kalu kabhi kabhar unknowingly badi sahi bata kar leta hai
yep it is a fact that every goverment brainwashes there population. This starts of when we are at young age heading to school.
Kids in India are brainwashed about secularism and socialism and Kids in Pakistan get more religious training and also on Evil bhartis etc

They are pathological liars and do not even know that they are lying, that is how brainwashed they are. Whenever confronted they will squirm and attack, instead of facing the truth. They didn't destroy buddhism in a 2000 year long process by being the saint. Now they have a plan to destroy Islam from the subcontinent and then from the whole world, once they become a "super power". Cunning Indian state is the biggest deceptive govt. on the planet, engaging in a campaign of deception in their country, in their neighbor countries and throughout the world. Indian fan boys in the internet only work as echo chamber for this propaganda.

typical sign of Jamti with a very distroted view of the world showing hatred toward's evil Hindus
and upon Buddhisim Hindus consider Lord Buddha as one of the Avatar's of vishnu.

So my suggestion has always has been to deny them an international space like this website for their propaganda. They should be treated as the enemy of the Pakistani people, which they are and enemy of all Muslims, which they are (much bigger threats than Zionists, who will see sense in the end, in my opinion). And they should be banned at the slightest slip and loss of decorum.

Why so that religious fundamentalist like you get to brain wash more innocent folks with your baseless lies

If it was up to me, I would ban all Indians from this site, en mass, so Pakistani's and people from other countries could then have some sane discussions. The other solution is to restrict them to post only at Indian Defense section, which is important for Pakistan, but even there, all you are going to get is misinformation, as they will never provide anything of value.

Thankfully miah the moderators in this forum are mature than the likes of you .

It is futile to reason or try to debate with them.

Yeah quite futile when you expect all reasoning to be from one side.

 

[Thor]

self delete - spelling

 

[Thor]

Hmm i pissed somebody big time haa

Well definetly more wiser than the person i am responding to who has an unhealthy obsession wit religion and likes to handout certificate about who really deserves to be in his faith who does not.

"You have pissed me off" ?????????????? please dont flatter yourself, I have dealt with many peanue size brain Hindu fanatics like you many a times, so please, stop being so childish nd just get on with the debate.......

Another instant expert. As before, discussing my religion and it's principles and laws with a Hindu is not worthwhile, especially with someone as stup1d as you, and this statement is quite clear on that. It appears that I have struck a raw nerve. I respect and believe Sunni, Shia and others as Muslim, however our Lord gives us a brain and makes clear about the threat from Ahmadiyya and as such this cult should be exposed and cast aside to prevent it from causing damage to the fabric of Islam, hence this will continue and Hindus are in no position to argue that looking at the state of Hinduism today, so please do not get carried away.

My dear if we wouldn't be tolerant do you think a country as diverse as India having many religion and language's would have broken up long time ago.
I am not saying we are some sort perfect society, but Indian's in general like to be tolerant to each other's belief. I personally have gone to a Gurudwara, Hindu temple, Muslim Sufi Shrine and also attended Church service and like me many other Indian's.
Let's take the case of Pakistan a country formed in name of religion had to be partitioned and still you guy's having ethnic clashes in all over Pakistan. Do introspect mate why is it that pPakistani society is tearing itself apart.

Tolerant, a far fetched statement, if Decapitating Dalits for cycling through Brahmin villages is tolerance, demolishing the babri mosque and killing thousands of people based on religion, killing thousands over a state in Gujarat. Please there is a list going if we go through this. Pakistan too has this issue, and guess what, we too a not broken up. As much turmoil in Pakistan, we are still here........ So don't have wet dreams over It.....

I too have been to Gurdwaras, manors and Churches in Pakistan, no issues and have many friends who are of other faiths, what has that got to do with anything.

who say's we don't tolerate Dalit's well our constitution was framed by a dalit we had a Dalit President. There is 50%reservation in Goverment and also Govt aided institution for people Daliit's and SC/ST.
and have you ever heard of this great soul
APJ Abdul Kalam the father of our missile program (no need to guess his religion)

I can sense a typical paranoid conspiracy theorist .

As before, the state of Dalits is quite obvious and please let's not divert on that, and you are being daft to say the least, like Bollywood, you seems to portray India as something which it is not

Nobody is abusing Islam all we are asking is to have a constructive dialog with Ahmai's, Shia's, and what all folks you have disagreement with.

Nobody said Hindus are saints mate and i can also fill the thread with news of radical religious fundamentalist like you who are out to destroy the very fabric of Pakistani society with your narrow thinking.

I am having a constructive dialogue right now with the thread starter Meesna, who cannot even answer the points of his own scriptures, yet they expect Muslims to welcome them in open arms....... Like before Hindus are in no position to discuss that, otherwise Hinduism would not be he today in the form that it is, when you worship hundreds of different Gods amongst you, even though your own scriptures reject that.... So please let's not get carried away with a debate off Topic, as I have said, Hindus are in no position to tell us about what Islam and muslims should do.

So what makes a fundamentalist...... Someone who rejects a cult who insults your faith and tries to change your religion......err no thank you

Now this is the stance of India, that India will always follow the constitution and no Religion is above the constitution of India.
If the Ahmadis think they are muslim's then they are by law they are considered as one and they will be protected by law.

This is where your problem will always lay......... As Muslims we always respect the laws of another country unless it directly contradicts Islam and clashes, as such, if push comes to shove and Muslims decide, then Islam comes before any country, no matter where, even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.......

It was wrong of the Scholar to demand this law as it should be expected india will not understand anything about Ahmadiyyah however they Should have just continued as before and ignore the Ahmadis in India altogether, but in Pakistan, it is a different story as Pakistan is a Muslim country and as such Ahmadis will be questioned about their attacks and attempts to change Islam......

 

[Lonely Hermit]

"You have pissed me off" ?????????????? please dont flatter yourself, I have dealt with many peanue size brain Hindu fanatics like you many a times, so please, stop being so childish nd just get on with the debate.......

Another instant expert. As before, discussing my religion and it's principles and laws with a Hindu is not worthwhile, especially with someone as stup1d as you, and this statement is quite clear on that. It appears that I have struck a raw nerve. I respect and believe Sunni, Shia and others as Muslim, however our Lord gives us a brain and makes clear about the threat from Ahmadiyya and as such this cult should be exposed and cast aside to prevent it from causing damage to the fabric of Islam, hence this will continue and Hindus are in no position to argue that looking at the state of Hinduism today, so please do not get carried away.



Tolerant, a far fetched statement, if Decapitating Dalits for cycling through Brahmin villages is tolerance, demolishing the babri mosque and killing thousands of people based on religion, killing thousands over a state in Gujarat. Please there is a list going if we go through this. Pakistan too has this issue, and guess what, we too a not broken up. As much turmoil in Pakistan, we are still here........ So don't have wet dreams over It.....

I too have been to Gurdwaras, manors and Churches in Pakistan, no issues and have many friends who are of other faiths, what has that got to do with anything.




As before, the state of Dalits is quite obvious and please let's not divert on that, and you are being daft to say the least, like Bollywood, you seems to portray India as something which it is not



I am having a constructive dialogue right now with the thread starter Meesna, who cannot even answer the points of his own scriptures, yet they expect Muslims to welcome them in open arms....... Like before Hindus are in no position to discuss that, otherwise Hinduism would not be he today in the form that it is, when you worship hundreds of different Gods amongst you, even though your own scriptures reject that.... So please let's not get carried away with a debate off Topic, as I have said, Hindus are in no position to tell us about what Islam and muslims should do.

So what makes a fundamentalist...... Someone who rejects a cult who insults your faith and tries to change your religion......err no thank you



This is where your problem will always lay......... As Muslims we always respect the laws of another country unless it directly contradicts Islam and clashes, as such, if push comes to shove and Muslims decide, then Islam comes before any country, no matter where, even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.......

It was wrong of the Scholar to demand this law as it should be expected india will not understand anything about Ahmadiyyah however they Should have just continued as before and ignore the Ahmadis in India altogether, but in Pakistan, it is a different story as Pakistan is a Muslim country and as such Ahmadis will be questioned about their attacks and attempts to change Islam......

Another useless rant repeating the same statement again and again good day to you sir i do not have the patience to reply to post of every deluded person.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

Religion does not boundry related..... As a muslim if you will bow infront of anyone other than Allah you are doing shirk and you are not muslim........ If you dont know about religion Islam dont discuss it.....For the starters You are not a muslim if you dont believe and act as per first kalma

MJ Naushad,

You are right, just calling yourself "Muslim" does not make you one.

But the problem is that Ahmadis do follow "first kalma" and Ahmadis do not bow down before anything other than ALLAH.

So then what is the Problem?

The problem is that they are ambiguous about "Khatme Nabuwwat", and so a lot of Ulema feel that they cannot be called "Muslims" because Khatme Nabuwwah is a central tenet of all sects of Islam.

To return to the issue you raised about bowing down before anything other than Allah, I would recommend the following as reading:

--

First they came

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak out.

--

First they came for the Hindus, because they said ALL creation was God and bowed down before it,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Hindu.
http://www.islam-watch.org/MarianaBaabar/HindusInPakistan.htm

Then they came for the Christians, because they said that God had a Son and bowed down before Isa,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Christian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWcv7wu5Hm8

First they came for the Ahmedis, because they did not follow Khatme Nabuwwat,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't an Ahmedi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVMzYRMIZMk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDV48iL99fs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VJnNab2zYI

Then they came for the Shia, because they bowed down before their Imams and Ali as Allah,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Shia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESJzCY14Mc8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1VDPMPFTb8

Then they came for the Barelvis, because they bowed down before their dead saints,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Barelvi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfIKbmRQBbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8TYIP0mQ4w

Then they came for the Sufis, because their murshids bowed down before their Pirs,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Sufi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tbfnGy6E5w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUQLstMsEU8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwQAvcnhths

Then they came for the Deobandis, because they bowed down before seers of the Prophet,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Deobandi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oueahM7NcA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tITUpGoBEFw

Then they came for all of us, because we areclueless about what we worship,
and they was no one left to speak out--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bGyhf7HD6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqXdcZjHKNM

 

[Icewolf]

We don't hate Ahmedis, but any educated person that had atleast knowledge about Islam would know that Ahmedis are not Muslim. NO, we do not want to kill Ahmedis, we are just saying that the Ahmediyya are a different religion.

If INDIA wants to truly respect the feelings of Indian Muslims they would declare Ahmediyyas as non-Muslims, simple. It doesn't hurt your stance of a secular state in India.

 

[Jade]

How the Indian government define Muslims is our Internal matter. What is this thread doing in world affairs?

 

[Hulk]

We don't hate Ahmedis, but any educated person that had atleast knowledge about Islam would know that Ahmedis are not Muslim. NO, we do not want to kill Ahmedis, we are just saying that the Ahmediyya are a different religion.

If INDIA wants to truly respect the feelings of Indian Muslims they would declare Ahmediyyas as non-Muslims, simple. It doesn't hurt your stance of a secular state in India.

In India state does not have any role in religious issues and rightly so.