Kashmir: Declare Ahmadis non-Muslims: Grand Mufti

[timetravel]

i think Islam also says wear Burqa and that protecting decency is a must? Can anyone throw light if what I am saying is right or wrong. Thanks. Is it a must to wear Burqa for a girl in presence of outside men?

second question

is it must for men to keep beard?

third question

I think muslims need to prayer 4 times a day? Is it a must as per Qoran? Is it Right?


I hope people here give true answers only as mentioned in Qoran line by line

I think the answers to all three above questions is yes (let me know if i am wrong. but please dont lie as I dont know and only u guys can tell) . So that means any girl not wearing Burga, any men not having beard and any muslim not parying 4 times is a Non Muslim coz they dont follow a certain set of principles to become muslim.

So 80-85% of all world muslim population should be declared as Non Muslim and be killed as religions extremists. (50-60% Pak population also which i believe is conservative estimate and there must be more then that not following above 3 points)

just my two cents coz there must be many many things said in Qoran that a muslim must not do. But many do so they all should be declared non muslim and killed by extremists!! That should include the PM and President of Pak and top govt officials of Saudi and Pak as many are known to drink.

and if this is followed i am sure 90% of muslims will be non muslims coz they wont be following or acting in one way or other as required by Qoran for a muslim. So they should all be declared non muslim.

anyone answer following questions please:

Do Qoran require muslims:

1) Girls to wear burqa in front or non family men. yes/no

2) A muslim men to keep beard yes/no

3) A muslim to do prayer 4 times a day yes/no

4) Muslims not to drink alcohol yes/no

and if answer to above is YES, then can I declare all those as non muslims and deserving death who dont follow above, as they are non muslims ??

( and out of those many posting on this forum agains Ahmedis, how many follow all the above and many other things which are required from a muslim without which u cant be one..any number? like 10%,20% or all 100%)

 

[Meesna]

Please do not equate a few deviant extremists with mainstream Muslims.

Just because you call them deviant doesn’t make them so. If anyone is insignificant here that is YOU. You can not claim to hold more authority single handily than these Ulema with considerable following to the point that people are ready to kill and die for them. Your arbitrary, random and self serving statements don’t mean a thing in real life.

 

[jaunty]

The mufti should realize that religious dogmatism isn't that big on this side of the border.

 

[kalu_miah]

Just because you call them deviant doesn’t make them so. If anyone is insignificant here that is YOU. You can not claim to hold more authority single handily than these Ulema with considerable following to the point that people are ready to kill and die for them. Your arbitrary, random and self serving statements don’t mean a thing in real life.

Don't get angry if I state the obvious. What is happening in Pakistan and other places, these sectarian killings is unfortunate and must stop. I am just an individual expressing my opinion, that is how significant it is, nothing more nothing less.

Why I comment on this issue, because we also have Ahmadi/Qadiani in Bangladesh and there was extremist Mullah's trying to harass them which I will never support. But declaring them non-Muslim which is actually true, is a way to not allow Ahmadi's to gain convert among unsuspecting simple common folks.

 

[Meesna]

No other groups deny the fact the Muhammad (SAWS) was the last prophet, except Ahmadi/Qadiani.

I have given you example of Maulana Qasim Nanutwi founder of Darulaloom Deoband who was a denier of finality of Prophethood, there are more below, but you completely side stepped that and did not condemn him or Darulaloom Deoband or the Deobandis who still associate themselves with that deviant person or his madrassa. Also is there only one criteria to decide who is a Muslim and who is not? Why are all those fatwas by prominent Ulema of their sects issued against almost very sect? Why are Shias being killed by the state?

 

[kalu_miah]

I have given you example of Maulana Qasim Nanutwi founder of Darulaloom Deoband who was a denier of finality of Prophethood, there are more below, but you completely side stepped that and did not condemn him or Darulaloom Deoband or the Deobandis who still associate themselves with that deviant person or his madrassa. Also is there only one criteria to decide who is a Muslim and who is not? Why are all those fatwas by prominent Ulema of their sects issued against almost very sect? Why are Shias being killed by the state?

Now this is going beyond my knowledge and information, I will let others comment who has more knowledge and experience. Hope you understand.

 

[Meesna]

But declaring them non-Muslim which is actually true, is a way to not allow Ahmadi's to gain convert among unsuspecting simple common folks.

That would be violating their human rights and it proves that Sharia based religious states are tyrannical and a curse for the humanity.

Thankfully Bangladesh has become a secular state. Hopefully things would get better from now.

Now this is going beyond my knowledge and information, I will let others comment who has more knowledge and experience. Hope you understand.

You have not made any sense so far so I was not holding my breath. The only point your arguments provide is that religious states are a threat to humanity and something to avoid at all cost.

 

[timetravel]

Don't get angry if I state the obvious. What is happening in Pakistan and other places, these sectarian killings is unfortunate and must stop. I am just an individual expressing my opinion, that is how significant it is, nothing more nothing less.

Why I comment on this issue, because we also have Ahmadi/Qadiani in Bangladesh and there was extremist Mullah's trying to harass them which I will never support. But declaring them non-Muslim which is actually true, is a way to not allow Ahmadi's to gain convert among unsuspecting simple common folks.

Meesna has a point here.... those people u call deviant has a following in lakhs (and maybe crores) of muslims.... so u may not agree to them doesnt make any difference... similarly Ahmedis dont agree to you... similarly those being called as deviant by you dont agree wid you..... what is ur view is meaningless for them and their countless followers....

u call them devaint.. they call u deviant.... who is right.. who will decide.. and even if someone decide... how will u change those u call deviant.. they are not 100s, they are crores ? if you kill them alll... that is one solution. BUT THEY ALSO THINK OF THIS SAME AS THE SOLUTION TO remove you - coz u r their deviant, if they are ur deviant.

nothing wrong in what I say. when u say them as deviant, u r their deviant. and both side people are innumerous and ready to kill for their belief. But no one is ready to accept that how to interpret religion should be best left to individual, if the person is in fault with Allah, Allah will make that person pay after death. Or u think Allah is not capable of punishing those who are not his true followers and therefore need to go out n kill others? but then again maybe u r not the true follower and whom u call as deviant is the real follower. !!

Sorry but I am more leaning towards the Idea that you are not the true follower of Islam and need to be declared non muslim, coz u preach intolerance. Whatever Qoran is, it must be 500% against a muslim killing another person(any religion) and against promoting intolerance. SO when u preach such ideas you have become non muslim.

 

[kalu_miah]

That would be violating their human rights and it proves that Sharia based religious states are tyrannical and a curse for the humanity.

Thankfully Bangladesh has become a secular state. Hopefully things would get better from now.



You have not made any sense so far so I was not holding my breath. The only point your arguments provide is that religious states are a threat to humanity and something to avoid at all cost.

I agree with you there, I do not believe in religious states either. Secular is better. But people should decide that using their democratic will, it should not be imposed from outside.

Mensa has a point here.... those people u call deviant has a following in lakhs (and maybe crores) of muslims.... so u may not agree to them doesnt make any difference... similarly Ahmedis dont agree to you... similarly those being called as deviant by you dont agree wid you..... what is ur view is meaningless for them and their countless followers....

u call them devaint.. they call u deviant.... who is right.. who will decide.. and even if someone decide... how will u change those u call deviant.. they are not 100s, they are crores ? if you kill them alll... that is one solution. BUT THEY ALSO THINK OF THIS SAME AS THE SOLUTION TO remove you - coz u r their deviant, if they are ur deviant.

nothing wrong in what I say. when u say them as deviant, u r their deviant. and both side people are innumerous and ready to kill for their belief. But no one is ready to accept that how to interpret religion should be best left to individual, if the person is in fault with Allah, Allah will make that person pay after death. Or u think Allah is not capable of punishing those who are not his true followers and therefore need to go out n kill others? but then again maybe u r not the true follower and whom u call as deviant is the real follower. !!

Use logic my friend, Muslims reading this thread know what I am talking about. Majority Muslims would agree to what I said, Sunni or Shia.

They believe in one, true God.

They believe in the unseen (heavens, hell, angel, afterlife).

They believe in Koran, Prophet Mohammed, bible, torah and other scriptures and prophets

They pray, fast, go to pilgrimage and give charity.

Only difference is that they believe the prophecy of Prophet Jesus coming back has been fulfilled with Golam.

Since they have the characteristics with which Koran identifies a believer, I say they are Muslims. The rest of it: Leave it to God for judging.

THey should have equal right as any other Muslims.

From what I know, your opinion above is not correct, because almost all of 1.6 billion Muslims believe that the prophet was the last prophet and anyone denying that may not be a Muslim. But I will let more expert scholars (Ulama) on Islam decide that.

 

[King Solomon]

From what I know, your opinion above is not correct, because almost all of 1.6 billion Muslims believe that the prophet was the last prophet and anyone denying that may not be a Muslim. But I will let more expert scholars (Ulama) on Islam decide that.

Well, if you take socalled "ulama" as your guides...

Better take the Koran as guide than everything else. And I sympahise with Meesna who is being attacked by everybody here

 

[kalu_miah]

Well, if you take socalled "ulama" as your guides...

Better take the Koran as guide than everything else. And I sympahise with Meesna who is being attacked by everybody here

S-19, this is a serious doctrinal issue in Islam, if the last prophet thing was not there, any Tom, Dick and Harry could declare that they are a new prophet, which is actually what Mr. Gulam Ahmad of Qadian did in todays Punjab, India during British rule, and the rest, as they say, is history. Some allege that the British had some hand in this as well.

Having said that I think every human being has the right to believe whatever they want to, but they cannot force 1.6 billion Muslim Ummah to accept them, if they don't want to.

But because of this non-acceptance, I don't think they should be persecuted or have any less rights.

 

[saleen_s7]

I don't understand the Sunni and Shia or any divisions within the religion. When you consider yourself as a Sunni or Shia, you are disassociating yourself from the religion which staunchly opposes any form of division within the religion. Most people would be better off if they just do their own research and follow the doctrines they understand, rather than call other people non Muslims and kafirs. The religion also does tell us to keep our religions to ourselves. Having a Sunni state or Shia state completely opposes the idea of what the religion really meant to preach. Just my two cents.

 

[yyetttt]

Hi KALU_MIAH:

We should not listen to what these Indians say because in Islam's rules, Ahmadi's are not considered Muslim because they do not consider Muhammad PBUH as last prophet... INDIANS get that through your thick skulls!

BTW, whoever says Shia get killed in Pakistan, please talk to me because I am Shia.

 

[Meesna]

BTW, whoever says Shia get killed in Pakistan, please talk to me because I am Shia.

Shias are kafir according to Sunni fatwas who are in larger numbers so Shias must accept themselves as non-Muslims according to the principal of majority.

 

[King Solomon]

Shias are kafir according to Sunni fatwas who are in larger numbers so Shias must accept themselves as non-Muslims according to the principal of majority.

True. I have seen a lot of Wahabis calling Shias non muslims in the forum itself.