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kalu_miah's new world order, a road map for the future

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Interesting take on many historical/social/cultural/political developments. I think you like most amateur historians fall victim to a pervasive weakness which is that I believe you are perhaps subconsciously placing undo emphasis of the world social / cultural / political situation of relatively recent world history and relating everything backwards to the distant past. Good attempt though, although common sense often needs to be used when analyzing history that is written by prominent powers of the day writing history in their favor.

May be we can get a research grant, hire some professors and their grad students in Historical Sociology, a part of Social sciences, and then collect data and do a proper research to prove or disprove this hypotheses.

As of now it is just a wild theory/hypothesis, but it seems to explain many historical and current day phenomenons.
 
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The next most powerful large system today in the world stage is rising China. How did todays China become a large system? Han Chinese who are 92% of PRC population (1.2 billion), actually became a nation in an integration process lasting for more than 1800 years, starting from Shang in 1600 BC to the end of Han around 220 AD.
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For the last eight hundred years it was subjugated twice, once by Mongols and a second time by Jurchens allied with Mongols. Mongol rule was particularly harsh, where the Han were treated as fourth class citizens and under Jurchen (Manchu) Qing, the Han were treated slightly better but still as second class citizens, with no permission of intermarriage with Manchu officials.
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You're sources for the above Chinese history concerning the Yuan and Qing Dynasties has assumptions that are wrong in the historical context of China. The Mongolian conquest of Eurasia was of the kind that you describe EXCEPT in the case of China. China was unique because Kublai Khan admired the Chinese civilization so much that he essentially adopted the Chinese social and cultural world as his own. He declared the founding of the Yuan Dynasty as having the Mandate of Heaven, which is a traditional and distinctly Chinese philosophical precept, and mostly used Han Chinese officials throughout China, except for the top officials of his government that he needed to trust. His rule was marked by adoption of Chinese social, cultural and governmental standards including existing Chinese laws. This is a major reason why other Mongolian leaders had disputes with Kublai Khan because of his obvious Sinocentric policies and why the Yuan Dynasty is considered more of an offshoot of Chinese dynasties rather than foreign rule of the kind that the British forced on India where the different languages, cultures and governments were either suppressed or destroyed by the conqueror.

Concerning the Jurchen (Qing Dynasty), this was initially considered a non-Chinese dynasty. However, the same thing basically happened to the Qing Dynasty as with the Yuan Dynasty except more slowly as the Qing gradually adopted more and more Chinese governmental, social and cultural features. What you mentioned about banned intermarriage was never actually law but rather a directive by the incoming Manchus to satisfy chauvinistic Han Ming officials into staying at their posts within the new Qing Dynasty. Ming era Han officials did not want the Manchus mixing with the Han Chinese because they considered them outsiders and barbarians while the Manchus did not want intermarriage because history told them that the appeal of the Chinese civilization would eventually completely assimilate them. However, intermarriage was common anyways which simply accelerated Manchu adoption of Chinese culture. Today the Jurchen, aka. Manchu ethnicity is a declining minority because of pervasive intermarriage with Han for so many centuries. Manchus have been acculturated to Chinese culture for centuries and for all intents and purposes as Chinese as the Han.


As of today the Han Chinese are still subjugated and under spell from this strange idea that came out of the head of two unique individuals (Marx and Angels) and modified to Chinese sensibilities and circumstances by Mao as Maoism. Lately China has been moving more towards capitalistic market economy. Sometimes I wonder if communism was a way to defeat the entrenched Manchu land owners, aristocrats and feudal lords and create a new Han elite under communist rule, may be someone more knowledgable can elaborate on this. So we could safely call Han Chinese a wounded civilization, still a little lost, but slowly getting back to its former greatness.
I'm speechless that you actually consider Communism some form of foreign subjugation. That's like saying the adoption of Christianity by Koreans or Buddhism by Chinese means they are being conquered. I'm not sure where you're getting this alternative history but it is ill-informed at best. China's aristocratic classes are not defined by ethnicity. Rather, China's history is replete with the common theme of cultural and eventual ethnic assimilation. This is how the Han Chinese identity was created over thousands of years. It is also why the nature of "racism" is different in China today vs the primarily ethnically based "racism" that exists elsewhere.


The early out of Africa migration went via Indian coast line to South East Asia and eventually to Australia. There were later migration from Africa who established significant communities. These were around 40,000-60,000 years ago. Since the ice age there were probable migration from Elamite areas of Persia and Mesopotamia who mixed with indigenous proto African migrants and gave rise to the Dravidian civilization.
You're delving into some murky anthropology here and relying on what have recently been found to be largely speculative DNA studies of present Human populations. The latest studies concerning the Out of Africa Theory points to a combination of this as well as heavy intermingling of preexisting populations of Asian Homo Erectus which probably never died out but rather mixed with the newcomers and evolved further.
 
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May be we can get a research grant, hire some professors and their grad students in Historical Sociology, a part of Social sciences, and then collect data and do a proper research to prove or disprove this hypotheses.

As of now it is just a wild theory/hypothesis, but it seems to explain many historical and current day phenomenons.
Speaking of theories, I recently read some findings concerning North American Indians and believe it or not, they indicate that prehistoric Europeans were the first to arrive in the new world during the Ice Age to 16,000B.C. Prior studies of North American Indians found what looked like considerable European DNA, which was at the time assumed to be mixture between European settlers after the 16th century. Turns out that admixture is prehistoric with more recent mingling within the last few hundred years. Unbelievable!
 
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Posted in another thread before, but posting here again (revised).

Arab-Israeli conflict:
Arab
A report by Strategic Foresight Group has estimated the opportunity cost of conflict for the Middle East from 1991-2010 at $12 trillion. The report's opportunity cost calculates the peace GDP of countries in the Middle East by comparing the current GDP to the potential GDP in times of peace. Israel's share is almost $1 trillion, with Iraq and Saudi Arabia having approximately $2.2 and $4.5 trillion, respectively. In other words, had there been peace and cooperation between Israel and Arab League nations since 1991, the average Israeli citizen would be earning over $44,000 instead of $23,000 in 2010.[102]
In terms of the human cost, it is estimated that the conflict has taken 92,000 lives (74,000 military and 18,000 civilian from 1945 to 1995).[1]
Sun Tzu would look at this conflict and laugh. It is my belief the main misunderstanding on the part of Arabs has been not recognizing the fact that because of the history of Jewish people in European lands, they are an inseparable part of Western civilization. Essentially Jewish people throughout history have played key roles in this civilization, not to mention have been a victim for most of history, until quite recently. So the state of Israel, as a home for this victimized population, from European lands as well as Arab lands (after 1947), will be under protection of the West, as its very own. This means that if Arab people want to beat Israel in a military conflict, they would have to eclipse the West in military power. For one thing, Arab League only has a population of about 350 million, whereas the size of the West is increasing, as it absorbs more of the former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe. Currently the West has about 1 billion people. Considering the difference in HDI (Human Development Index) in Arab lands and the West, it does not seem possible that Arabs would at any time in the foreseeable future be able to eclipse the West in terms of economic power, which translates directly into military power. Even if Arabs were to team up with the whole of Muslim world, which is about 1.6 billion in population, divided in many states and in different continents, who have little in common other than following a common religion, even then, the Muslims collectively would not be able to match the West in economic or military power for the foreseeable future. So if this is the big picture, what should be done to solve this problem?

First thing would be to recognize that this conflict is un-winnable for Arabs or Muslims by military means. So continuation of hostility is only providing opportunity to Israel to grab more lands illegally and also allowing other enemy's of Islam such as Hindu India to team up with Israel and enhance their combined ability to run a world wide campaign of Islamophobia which affects all Muslims negatively and further antagonizes Muslims against Israel and Jewish people. Not only that, it also gives lunatics like OBL and others to take up the cause and create further rift between the West and Muslims.

So my suggestion would be to analyze this situation by some responsible body such as Arab League or OIC and come to some important decisions:

1. Settle the conflict between Israel and Palestinians once and for all, even under unfavorable terms that tilts to favor Israel
2. Once the conflict is settled, maintain peace at all cost
3. No more hostility from Arab/Palestinian side
4. Gaza to be integrated with Egyptian economy and West Bank to be integrated with Jordanian economy
5. Ask Jewish groups in the US, Israel and elsewhere to cease their campaign of Islamophobia and activities to undermine the future positive developments of Arabs and Muslims of the world and end their partnerships in these activities with Hindu nationalist groups who are engaged in these same activities
 
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Good intentioned thread,kalu miah but some dreams are just dreams... alas.
Remember napoleon's quote-
'Only two things ever unite men,fear and interest.'
It is not in the interests of the ruling elite to unite and unless there is a massive xternal threat like catastrophic natural disaster or alien invasion[lolz] humnity wil not unite out of fear,for survival.
 
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You're sources for the above Chinese history concerning the Yuan and Qing Dynasties has assumptions that are wrong in the historical context of China. The Mongolian conquest of Eurasia was of the kind that you describe EXCEPT in the case of China. China was unique because Kublai Khan admired the Chinese civilization so much that he essentially adopted the Chinese social and cultural world as his own. He declared the founding of the Yuan Dynasty as having the Mandate of Heaven, which is a traditional and distinctly Chinese philosophical precept, and mostly used Han Chinese officials throughout China, except for the top officials of his government that he needed to trust. His rule was marked by adoption of Chinese social, cultural and governmental standards including existing Chinese laws. This is a major reason why other Mongolian leaders had disputes with Kublai Khan because of his obvious Sinocentric policies and why the Yuan Dynasty is considered more of an offshoot of Chinese dynasties rather than foreign rule of the kind that the British forced on India where the different languages, cultures and governments were either suppressed or destroyed by the conqueror.

Concerning the Jurchen (Qing Dynasty), this was initially considered a non-Chinese dynasty. However, the same thing basically happened to the Qing Dynasty as with the Yuan Dynasty except more slowly as the Qing gradually adopted more and more Chinese governmental, social and cultural features. What you mentioned about banned intermarriage was never actually law but rather a directive by the incoming Manchus to satisfy chauvinistic Han Ming officials into staying at their posts within the new Qing Dynasty. Ming era Han officials did not want the Manchus mixing with the Han Chinese because they considered them outsiders and barbarians while the Manchus did not want intermarriage because history told them that the appeal of the Chinese civilization would eventually completely assimilate them. However, intermarriage was common anyways which simply accelerated Manchu adoption of Chinese culture. Today the Jurchen, aka. Manchu ethnicity is a declining minority because of pervasive intermarriage with Han for so many centuries. Manchus have been acculturated to Chinese culture for centuries and for all intents and purposes as Chinese as the Han.



I'm speechless that you actually consider Communism some form of foreign subjugation. That's like saying the adoption of Christianity by Koreans or Buddhism by Chinese means they are being conquered. I'm not sure where you're getting this alternative history but it is ill-informed at best. China's aristocratic classes are not defined by ethnicity. Rather, China's history is replete with the common theme of cultural and eventual ethnic assimilation. This is how the Han Chinese identity was created over thousands of years. It is also why the nature of "racism" is different in China today vs the primarily ethnically based "racism" that exists elsewhere.



You're delving into some murky anthropology here and relying on what have recently been found to be largely speculative DNA studies of present Human populations. The latest studies concerning the Out of Africa Theory points to a combination of this as well as heavy intermingling of preexisting populations of Asian Homo Erectus which probably never died out but rather mixed with the newcomers and evolved further.

China's culture is indeed based around ethnicity though. 华夷之辨 is a central concept of Chinese culture. Some will always be barbarians, and some will always be Chinese.

Also, socialism in China is nothing like Korean Christianity. Korean Christianity is a foreign religion imposed by US occupation forces. There has never been a historical precedent for Christianity in South Korea, and Koreans have wholeheartedly absorbed Christianity, both good and bad.

Socialism is a natural modern extension of Confucian culture. The culture of 仁 and 万事和为贵 is directly compatible with the social welfare of socialism, much moreso than with the relentless market competition. That is the core of Confucianism, and what remains is to take the core, while abandoning the bad parts of it.
 
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Explain just who are these 'barbarians' in the present world?
 
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Posted in another thread before, but posting here again (revised).

Arab-Israeli conflict:
Arab

Sun Tzu would look at this conflict and laugh. It is my belief the main misunderstanding on the part of Arabs has been not recognizing the fact that because of the history of Jewish people in European lands, they are an inseparable part of Western civilization. Essentially Jewish people throughout history have played key roles in this civilization, not to mention have been a victim for most of history, until quite recently. So the state of Israel, as a home for this victimized population, from European lands as well as Arab lands (after 1947), will be under protection of the West, as its very own. This means that if Arab people want to beat Israel in a military conflict, they would have to eclipse the West in military power. For one thing, Arab League only has a population of about 350 million, whereas the size of the West is increasing, as it absorbs more of the former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe. Currently the West has about 1 billion people. Considering the difference in HDI (Human Development Index) in Arab lands and the West, it does not seem possible that Arabs would at any time in the foreseeable future be able to eclipse the West in terms of economic power, which translates directly into military power. Even if Arabs were to team up with the whole of Muslim world, which is about 1.6 billion in population, divided in many states and in different continents, who have little in common other than following a common religion, even then, the Muslims collectively would not be able to match the West in economic or military power for the foreseeable future. So if this is the big picture, what should be done to solve this problem?

First thing would be to recognize that this conflict is un-winnable for Arabs or Muslims by military means. So continuation of hostility is only providing opportunity to Israel to grab more lands illegally and also allowing other enemy's of Islam such as Hindu India to team up with Israel and enhance their combined ability to run a world wide campaign of Islamophobia which affects all Muslims negatively and further antagonizes Muslims against Israel and Jewish people. Not only that, it also gives lunatics like OBL and others to take up the cause and create further rift between the West and Muslims.

So my suggestion would be to analyze this situation by some responsible body such as Arab League or OIC and come to some important decisions:

1. Settle the conflict between Israel and Palestinians once and for all, even under unfavorable terms that tilts to favor Israel
2. Once the conflict is settled, maintain peace at all cost
3. No more hostility from Arab/Palestinian side
4. Gaza to be integrated with Egyptian economy and West Bank to be integrated with Jordanian economy
5. Ask Jewish groups in the US, Israel and elsewhere to cease their campaign of Islamophobia and activities to undermine the future positive developments of Arabs and Muslims of the world and end their partnerships in these activities with Hindu nationalist groups who are engaged in these same activities

Wrong and self serving diagnosis can never lead to a correct remedy.

There are many in the Islamic world who hate Jews not because of the Israel Palestine conflict but just because who they are.

It is an inseparable part of the Islamic theology and has been a part of it right from the beginning of the religion. Jews were persecuted since the very early days of Islam.

The West doesn't need any instigation for this so called "Islamophobia". They are the ones driving whatever perceptions for their own reasons.

In fact much of the real Islamic history is still not part of the popular culture due to political correctness though it is well known in academia now. That is slowly changing.

Once it becomes more widely known, this so called "Islamophobia" may increase much more.
 
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The principle of first sovereignty:

That this planet belongs to humanity as a whole and humanity as a whole is sovereign on any part of planet. That when a 51% majority or more of humanity or their true and valid representative shall vote and decide upon a matter, that decision will be enforceable with force. This code of sovereignty will supersede any claimed national sovereignty based on existing nation states.

Importance of Unity:

Since the above is not a reality for humanity yet, the recourse for humanity is to find strength in numbers. That is why “UNITY” is good for people, it helps them gain more power against their adversaries.

Unity among Han Chinese ethnic group will keep China united, which is good for all Han Chinese. Unity among Hindu Indians will keep India united, which is good for all Hindu Indians. Unity among European states will keep EU united and make it expand to include more people of European descent, and this is good for people of European origin, wherever they may be on the planet.

By the same token, it is good for small states in the rest of the world to be united and create their own regional Unions. And it is not at all bad for Muslims to have some increasing levels of unity among themselves, even though they may not all are part of a single future union.

How to make it possible:

The first step for making any dream come true is to have a vision. When that vision is firmly etched in mind of enough people, then it is time to take it to the masses and create public support while at the same time study this vision for feasibility and its potential merits and demerits. Then when there is enough public support, it is time to make concrete moves to bring the vision into reality.

Dynamics of future regional Unions:

A united Latin American Union will be good to reduce harmful influence of the declining super power from the North, but it will also be helpful to reduce increasing harmful influence from emerging super powers from the Eurasian mainland (EU, China, India). Latin American Union, however, is destined to be allied with people of European descent, because of ethnic, religious and linguistic affinity, although it will have a pronounced Mestizo flavor, which will be its main difference with the group where people of European descent dominate in numbers.

Now let us look at the other regions. Han Chinese will dominate in the Chinese grouping, while Indian Hindu’s will dominate in India. In ASEAN, I am hoping that the Japanese, the Koreans and the Vietnamese will dominate, while all the others take a back seat. The Central Asian space will be dominated by various Muslim ethnic and sect groups, and it will be a complicated place to unite and resolve differences. In African Union also it will be difficult to bridge the gap between Arab North Africa and Black sub-saharan Africa. Muslim Unity has however the potential to bring these three groups (ASEAN+, Central Asian Union and Africal Union) together in alliance that might be able to dominate over any other groups. This however will mean that Muslim societies are democratized and led by more enlightened, pragmatic and less fanatic groups, just like what we see in Turkey, so they can work together with other ethnic groups in the spirit of common humanity and further their cause and the cause of global stability and peace.

An alliance between Pakistan and China or Bangladesh and China (if it happens) for example is fundamentally an alliance of convenience, with limited long term potential. The same goes for any Japan-US, Korea-US, Vietnam-US, Japan-India, Korea-India, Vietnam-India alliance. So it is wiser for countries and people to look at the long term and create family groups for the longer term, instead of being driven by and solely focus on the need of the hour and try to get protection from some enemy of the near enemy, who automatically becomes a friend, due to temporary convenience and need of the hour.

In the far future, I am sure humanity will unite as one. So whenever we can find an excuse to unite with a potential partner for long term unity, that I believe is a fundamental win and a positive step for humanity as a whole.
 
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Some random thoughts on power imbalance in global order by large states:

When the US predominance in global power projection comes in competition with China's, which slowly but surely will happen, no matter how much both parties try to avoid it, they will become adversaries, Mearsheimer predicts as much:
http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/A0056.pdf

At present, China's biggest weakness is its unsustainable and opaque one party system of government, which is prone to nepotism and idiosyncratic/whimsical leaders who are not accountable to the Chinese voting public, but only to a small group of their elite colleague in Communist Party, PLA, PLN and PLAF etc. US and others who do not want to see China rise too much too fast, will use this weakness as a lever.

China and India are not benign powers, the term benign power and peaceful rise are both oxymoron, in my opinion. Powerful countries can never be benign, usually they will step on some toes while trying to secure their interest.

Asia is a very crowded space, there are billions of people in China and India, but around them in their neighborhood also there are billions of people in smaller countries. There are trade, transit, international water sharing, maritime space sharing and many other issues where China and India are already making neighbors nervous and jittery, it will only get worse with time.

To give some concrete examples, China, which is essentially a Han Chinese entity, have absorbed Inner Mongolia in itself, it has also occupied Tibet and Xinjiang and are engaged in demographic invasion in both of these regions to ensure that Han population there increases to more than 50-60% and eventually to 75-80%, to prevent a Soviet Union type breakup. Not only do they not share economic opportunities with the local indigenous population in Tibet and Xinjiang, they try to suppress their religious and cultural activities and try to absorb them into the Han culture, which is a form of cultural genocide. As a result you have occasional outburst of riots and mayhem, because of the suppressed rage of the locals.

If you ask the Chinese, what right do they have to occupy these regions, they mention that historically it was theirs, meaning under Yuan and Manchu dynasty rule, both of which were foreign dynasties at the time. To prevent calling them foreign, they claim them as one of their minority nations, which is true for Manchu, but not true for Mongols, who were able to save half of their country with the help of Soviet Russia. Even the area of Manchuria was a no go area for the Han Chinese during much of Manchu rule and later became a Japanese protectorate.

China is also damming up major international rivers in Tibet, such as Yarlung Tsangpo (Brahmaputra), Mekong etc., which provide sustenance to billions in downstream countries. India is damming up its shared rivers as well, at the detriment of downstream neighboring countries.

China has conflicts with Japan, Vietnam, Philippines and others about island ownership in South China Sea and Sea of Japan, there is no easy solution in sight.

India for its part, occupies half of Muslim majority Kashmir, whose population want to become either independent or join up with Pakistan. It also inherited from British Raj, the Northeastern States whose Buddhist and Christian Tibeto Burman population has more in common with Burmese tribes and are essentially much closer to South East Asians, in terms of language of ethnicity. There is insurgency in all these states to breakaway from Indian Union. India also shares border with Tibet, where China claims that India illegally occupies a portion of Arunachal Pradesh, calling it South Tibet.

China and India are able to get away with much, because they are large countries, they have competitive advantage and they are rising, so the balance of power is shifting to their favor, while the smaller neighbors cannot compete because of their smaller size.

The situation in South America is different, the population versus resource pressure is much less than in Asia. So Brazil can afford to be a benign friendly giant.

Entity of Brazil is new, but India like China are old population centers, with a lot of history of warfare, kingdoms, empires, outside barbarian invasions, just like Europe.

In the period between 80 to 150 years ago, there was rivalry mainly between European powers, Germany can be called a new European power as well I think, as well as Italy, although they were not active in colonial ventures as early and as much as Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, France and England.

USA with its huge land and increasing population, transplanted from Europe and freely intermixed, became the new great power, surpassing all other European powers in a divided, nationalistic and fragmented Europe, mainly because of its size of population, a single market, a single language, its cultural homogeneity and its "dynamism", despite the setback during civil war, due in part to the slave dependent economy in the South. USA became a more effective large country than any other and proved its performance in WW II.

Today China and India has essentially regrouped and are on the march to regain their past prominence and glory. The long term effect of the emergence of these two giants on the Eurasian land mass is fundamentally different than jockeying for power of the mainly European powers in the earlier era, except for Japan, it was essentially an intra European affair or more correctly intra Western affair.

The re-emergence of India and China has and will put further strain among its neighbors and will motivate them to form other groups or unions to offset the coming imbalance.

The world may seem to be going back to a status quo that it held between different regions before the Renaissance and its subsequent centuries, although the world today is far more populous and technologically advanced than those years in the past. What remains to be seen is what happens in the fragmented South East Asian, Middle East, Central Asian and Latin American region and the African continent.

My guess is that people will work to create their virtual large groups or unions in these fragmented regions, even while nation states still exist, so that they can compete more effectively with status quo powers such as the West and emerging powers such as China and India.

But the question about wars and conflicts and whether such calamities and catastrophes will happen while the world balance of power shifts, I think it is entirely possible, because human nature has not changed much in a few centuries or decades, but the presence of MAD(Mutually Assured Destruction) and better communication and conflict management tools work as brakes on full scale and all out existential wars. It does not mean that full scale wars will not happen, there are as many or more short-sighted people on this planet today than there ever was in the past, but effective WMD's make full scale wars between Nuclear powers terribly expensive. So people are more careful about initiating wars and escalating them, specially when both parties have Nuclear weapons. This means that Nuclear weapons will get more wide spread and every region will have its latest and greatest array of Nuclear arsenals, pointing at rivals and "enemy" nations. It is also possible that WMD's in the future will be less dirty than than they are today and may be more effective at killing just human beings and not render the land unusable for generations, so victors can come in and make use of the land.

Although large scale wars, between large systems will be less common, there will continue to be insurgencies and low scale conflicts in many volatile regions that are not yet able to form effective large systems, as there is today. It is also possible that new insurgencies will be initiated and sustained in the following areas to cut to size the threatening large countries, namely India and China:

- Muslim majority Kashmir and Christian majority North Eastern States in India
- Xinjiang and Tibet in China

A nation is like an army, economy is the field of war in times of peace. A bigger nation, even if its malnourished like that of India, or a China even if its not as well equipped like that of the US, can change with time and be a threat. Because the size of the Army always matter in war.

Lets look at the size of the countries of the world:

List of countries by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now if you look at this list, there are only two countries bigger than the US, China and India, both around the same size in population and both around 4 times the size of the US.

EU may become a country in the future, so it is premature to talk about it now. Even if it becomes a country, even if it includes Russia, it would still be half the size of China or India, in population.

Whenever a developed country like the US, Germany or Israel engages in extensive trade with a big country like China or India, it becomes net loss for the countries with higher income and net gain for the countries with lower income, until the differences in income become smaller and smaller. This mainly happens because of technology transfer and the advantage the bigger countries have in acquiring technology.

Why should the US or EU help in the emergence of their own strategic competitors and then be defeated by these competitors, and is there a way to avoid it?

The political class in the West is serving the billionaires and their goals of earning more billions for their corporations. The nature of the corporation is to maximize profit, if a country is defeated in the process, it is apparently not their concern.

But when a country or set of countries are defeated, then the eco systems that helped these companies succeed, are compromised fatally, because these corporations and their share holders are usually controlled by a particular country, so although there are multi-national corporations, ultimately all corporations are national and they are one of the vital strategic weapons of a nation that determines their rise or fall. I will list some companies and their nationality, all of which are MNC's:

Toyota Japanese
Samsung Korean
Huawei Chinese
Reliance Indian
Rover-Tata Indian
Jaguar-Tata Indian
Cisco US
Intel US
Oracle US
Microsoft US
Boeing US
Airbus EU
Daimler Germany
BMW Germany

Why is size so important, many reasons, economies of scale, size of market, political stability, pool of extra-ordinary talent (leaders) etc. Also please consider why US and Soviet Union became two competing superpowers after WW II, the other colonial powers were not just devastated internally, they also lost their colonial possessions or were in the process of doing so, loosing the advantage of size, which left US and Soviet Union the two greatest countries in population. China and India just came out of colonial and imperial domination and their journey had just started as independent entities, so they have not entered the arena until very recently.

So it was the right strategy for the US to engage in trade with Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, South East Asian countries like Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, some became spectacular successes, like Japan and then S Korea and Taiwan, but none could eclipse the US. So even if Japan reached its maximum potential with high GDP, strategically it remained under US umbrella, along with EU and ANZ countries.

US engaged with China to defeat the Soviet threat, but it should have disengaged as soon as Soviet Union fell apart in early 1990's.

So the club of developed countries should disengage China now and they should never engage India, no matter how much the corporations salivate for the big markets there. The US also must reach an agreement with EU, Oceania, Japan, S Korea and Israel (who has a habit of selling restricted technology) not to engage China or India. It does not have to be total disengagement, but anything that can be done somewhere else, should be done there, so that their growth level is brought down from 8-10% to 4-5%, at par or less than other smaller countries which are to be engaged.

Instead of engaging bigger nations such as China or India, the developed countries should engage smaller nations from the list who appear below the US. There are plenty of nations with cheaper labor than China in this list to produce what US, EU, Oceania and Israel need, plenty of nations that can provide the back end services cheaper or better than India. This engagement also means that people in these countries will stay where they are and not migrate as much to the developed countries.

There are only few nations in this world that already has the technology, highly developed man power and industrial infrastructure, these must have an agreement and understanding to ensure a stable order for the future of the world.

Thomas Friedman, Ayn Rand and their promoted free market is a recipe for disaster. We know and can see what they bring. We need to control the outcome of our trade and our engagement.

These two nations which are bigger in size than the US, are a threat not just for the US, but for Japan, Korean peninsula, South East Asia, every nation that are around them or even far away from them in Africa or South America.

Europe has been the colonial master of the planet, the planet does not need another two new neo-colonial masters. Their relative size is a threat that cannot be met by any other way than disengagement, as their size provide them with competitive advantage, which is a threat for all other countries in the world, not just the US, EU, Oceania, Japan, Korean peninsula.

When all other countries reach a sufficient momentum and parity in competitive advantage and can be grouped together in some form or fashion, to counter-balance these two large countries, only then they should be engaged again, by the developed countries, so that they can develop and progress without being a threat for other smaller nations in the globe.

I ask forgiveness to people of China and India with whom I have no enmity, who are but fellow human beings. But power imbalance is a recipe for chaos and destruction which should be avoided, and I prefer an orderly evolution of humanity, which is my motivation in presenting these ideas.
 
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I think India has the potential to be benign power and provide the kind of spiritual leadership to the world that it so much needs.

The Western civilization while brilliant is too materialistic. Indian civilization can provide the counterweight and help make the world a better place for all.

In an ideal future world, one should be looking to integrate everyone and not create opposing blocs. That can only lead to more of the same.

Frankly, I see the world coalescing around cultural/civilizational groups.

This big nation/small nation grouping is unrealistic.
 
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Even if one assumes for argument's sake that small nations have common interests vs. big nations, there would be factors at play that would make such a grouping impossible.

One obvious issue would be the prisoner's dillema.

dilemma.jpg


Second is the obvious fact that the smaller nations would be more competitive vis a vis each other than the larger ones.

Then defining smaller nations may be a problem. E.g. Brazil is a huge country in Latin America but small compared to India and China. Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh are massive in comparison to most other countries.

Where does it stop?

Why would a Korea or an Israel not take advantage of the massive markets of large countries? If they don't, their own population loses out as they have smaller local markets.

What is it about their technology levels that other countries like India and China can't reach if they make enough effort and enough investments?

Let me speak for India only and many of the same things apply for China. It is impossible to contain India. it has enough momentum, enough resources and enough skilled manpower to continue the journey. In fact it can take along quite a few, neighbors as well as other countries who are smart enough to take the advantage that our markets and skilled and abundant manpower provide.

It is a win win for everyone.

The smaller nations would definitely have apprehensions. Regarding their genuine apprehensions of security and defense, it can be dealt with by appropriate multilateral frameworks. Regarding their competitiveness, they have to find their niche and excel at it. They likely can't compete at everything.

They should look at the rise of larger countries as an opportunity and tag along for their own growth. Australia and Korea and Japan are already doing it with China. It's a matter of time before some countries in South Asia do the same with India as the regional integration improves.
 
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India and China should have nothing to fear from small countries Union idea. Whether they create Union or not, it is their business ONLY, as they are sovereign countries and have every right to do what they see fit with their future.

If anything it will increase dynamism, increased economic activity and trade and reduce barriers within the region, which is also helpful for not just bigger countries but for the world and humanity.

Of course it will make them a little less vulnerable to pressure from big country's, but it will be more fair and just world than what we have today.
 
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India and China should have nothing to fear from small countries Union idea. Whether they create Union or not, it is their business ONLY, as they are sovereign countries and have every right to do what they see fit with their future.

If anything it will increase dynamism, increased economic activity and trade and reduce barriers within the region, which is also helpful for not just bigger countries but for the world and humanity.

Of course it will make them a little less vulnerable to pressure from big country's, but it will be more fair and just world than what we have today.
Miah i must say you are to idealistic aankh mey assoo aajata hey hai:cry:.
But human greed is such that man will always try to divide whether on the basis of gender, skin colour, religion or language .
Though for the sake of humanity i hope mankind unite and a new global order follows.

PS:Out of curiosity are you Communist/Socialist.
 
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Updated road map

current status:

1. China: ancient union of nations, first cobbled together by Han Wu Di, recreated by Yuan Mongol, one written language (spoken becoming standardized as well)
2. India: ancient union of nations, first created by Ashoka or Murya dynasty, recreated by Mughal, but remains multi-lingual
3. EU: European nations first unified by Romans, but now working towards a United States of Europe
4. USA (recent union of states formed after European migration to North America)
5. ASEAN: 10 nations of South East Asia
6. UNASUR: all nations in Middle and South America, Mexico is contemplating to join
7. GCC and Arab League
8. Eurasian Economic Community (Eurasian Union with former Soviet countries except Georgia)
9. African Union
10. SAARC

important points:
- all customs or free trade areas will not end up in the future as a full political union, but some may
- EU, ASEAN, UNASUR, GCC, Eurasian Union and AU may become the starting point of new unions that may end up as future political unions
- people will choose their future when they find their voice through more and more democracy and ideally using internet based online direct democracy
- economic system will be decided by majority opinion, but my guess is that people will choose Nordic model of democratic socialism or social democracy to develop full nutritional and as a result creative potential of their human resources
- I promote as much trade and commerce possible among neighbor nations, but nations will group together according to their own priorities and have preferential arrangements within their own group
- groups may start out as preferential trade groups, may gradually move towards military and strategic alliance and then finally may form federated political unions with single market, currency and defence structure

Stage 1:

1. China+Taiwan
2. India+Nepal+Bhutan
3. EU
4. USA+Canada+Israel
5. ASEAN+Japan+Korea (Maldives, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, East Timor and Papua New Guinea may want to join this group)
6. Latin American Union: UNASUR+Mexico
7. expanded GCC to include all non-Maghreb Arab countries
8. Eurasian Union (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey and Mongolia may want to join this group)
9. African Union (Maghreb will remain part of Arab League, but due to economic and geographic reasons, it will form political union with rest of African continent, Nile river usage being the main reason for Egypt and the rest for geographic proximity)

Stage 2:

1. China+Taiwan (China+, leading state: PRC)
2. India+Nepal+Bhutan (India+, leading state: India)
3. EU+USA+Canada+Israel+Oceania/ANZ (EU+, leading states: USA, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Poland)
4. ASEAN+Japan+Korea+Maldives+Sri Lanka+Bangladesh+PNG+East Timor (ASEAN+, leading states: Japan, unified Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar, Thailand and Bangladesh)
5. Latin American Union: UNASUR+Mexico (LAU, leading states: Brazil, Mexico, Columbia and Argentina)
6. expanded GCC to include all non-Maghreb Arab countries (GCC+, leading states: KSA and Iraq)
7. Eurasian Union+Iran+Pakistan+Afghanistan+Turkey+Mongolia (Eurasia+, leading states: Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Iran and Pakistan)
8. African Union (AU, leading states Egypt, Ethiopia, Nigeria and South Africa)

Comment: I am sceptical that ethnic Russians will remain with Eurasia/Asia in the long run, but considering the current trend among elites in former Soviet countries, the above is a revised and updated version which is slightly different from the one in OP. Further updates will be made from time to time, as trends shift with time.

I would appreciate opinions from people of different countries and regions who would like to see this future reality for their country and region.

Regionalism (international relations) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regionalism is a term used in international relations. Regionalism also constitutes one of the three constituents of the international commercial system (along with multilateralism and unilateralism).[1] It refers to the expression of a common sense of identity and purpose combined with the creation and implementation of institutions that express a particular identity and shape collective action within a geographical region.
 
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