Judge rejects minor girl's plea to skip swim class on religious grounds

[Sashan]

Sir thousands are converting to Islam in Germany every year what is your advice for them

The converts should strive to be a bridge between the muslims and others including German officials. They should try to clear up any misconception Germans have about Islam. It goes the other way as well. These converts can teach some of the German culture to the muslim immigrants making it easier for them to blend in. I do not believe that Islamic practices and German culture are mutually exclusive.

 

[mfreak]

Sir thousands are converting to Islam in Germany every year what is your advice for them

You cannot have two competing cultures in one environment, that will lead to conflicts. The idea is to integrate, not compete. No one is taking away your right ot practice your religion, but when you start demanding a different set of rules then that becomes a problem because the majority dont believe in it. In such situations, you need to practice Islam, but at the same time, be open minded enough to live by their culture and values. It isnt a problem if a muslims says that he doesnt wanna eat pork. But if you want the school to have different standards for different students, then that wont be possible. If this girl properly integrates - people will have better perception of Islam, and it will break stereotypes.

 

[Zarvan]

You cannot have two competing cultures in one environment, that will lead to conflicts. The idea is to integrate, not compete. No one is taking away your right ot practice your religion, but when you start demanding a different set of rules then that becomes a problem because the majority dont believe in it. In such situations, you need to practice Islam, but at the same time, be open minded enough to live by their culture and values. It isnt a problem if a muslims says that he doesnt wanna eat pork. But if you want the school to have different standards for different students, then that wont be possible. If this girl properly integrates - people will have better perception of Islam, and it will break stereotypes.

Sir they are forcing the lady to attend that swimming classes which is against Islam Sir and also Muslims should open up their own schools and we don't follow that rules which are against Islam Sir

 

[mfreak]

Sir they are forcing the lady to attend that swimming classes which is against Islam Sir and also Muslims should open up their own schools and we don't follow that rules which are against Islam Sir

They are not forcing her. That is the school rules. She agreed to it when she joined the school. If she doesnt wanna do it, then she should leave the school and join a school where the curriculum and activities would suit her. How can everyone in the school be taught swimming and this girl alone excluded? Plus she is just a kid. So I dont really see the problem.

As for muslims opening up schools, well, you can if you want to, but then that will strictly be only for muslims as I dont think non muslims will join. But by doing that you are again segregating yourself from society. You are standing out as the odd man out, and it will worsen stereotypes and cause more racism.

My question is this. If their ways and culture dont suit you, why are you there in Germany in the first place? Why not go back to Morocco where the culture and everything will suit your lifestyle?

 

[Last Hope]

The girl clearly mentioned that swimming is not her problem, but swimming with 'bare-chested' boys is. If her problem was to wear the typical swim dress, then the ruling would have been fine (to cover-up and carry on with classes).

 

[Zarvan]

They are not forcing her. That is the school rules. She agreed to it when she joined the school. If she doesnt wanna do it, then she should leave the school and join a school where the curriculum and activities would suit her. How can everyone in the school be taught swimming and this girl alone excluded? Plus she is just a kid. So I dont really see the problem.

As for muslims opening up schools, well, you can if you want to, but then that will strictly be only for muslims as I dont think non muslims will join. But by doing that you are again segregating yourself from society. You are standing out as the odd man out, and it will worsen stereotypes and cause more racism.

My question is this. If their ways and culture dont suit you, why are you there in Germany in the first place? Why not go back to Morocco where the culture and everything will suit your lifestyle?

First tell me where should those convert Germans should go which are converting to Islam in thousands every year and Muslims need to open up schools we have to raise our children in Islamic Environment and to integrate in society we can't become part of those things which are against Islam Sir

 

[Zarvan]

The girl clearly mentioned that swimming is not her problem, but swimming with 'bare-chested' boys is. If her problem was to wear the typical swim dress, then the ruling would have been fine (to cover-up and carry on with classes).

Sir that is exactly the problem the girl most probably meant if their would have been only girls she wouldn't have minded it but a Muslims lady can't take bath or even swim in front of Na Mehram Men that is strictly forbidden very strictly forbidden in Islam

 

[Fireurimagination]

First tell me where should those convert Germans should go which are converting to Islam in thousands every year and Muslims need to open up schools we have to raise our children in Islamic Environment and to integrate in society we can't become part of those things which are against Islam Sir

I don't think the convert Germans have any problem with swimming lessons, some immigrant parents from Morocco have..today it's swimming, tommorow it can be sharing the class with boys, then it can be Music and Dance classes, then chess classes, I have heard even pictures are unIslamic, these parents should have immigrated to Saudi Arabia and not Germany

 

[Zarvan]

I don't think the convert Germans have any problem with swimming lessons, some immigrant parents from Morocco have..today it's swimming, tommorow it can be sharing the class with boys, then it can be Music and Dance classes, then chess classes, I have heard even pictures are unIslamic, these parents should have immigrated to Saudi Arabia and not Germany

Sir Converts have far more problems with their society that those who are migrants and are born Muslims Sir because converts are far more strict on orders of Islam than born Muslims

 

[harpoon]

You have it in private schools. My friends son goes to this Greenwood High in Bangalore. They have swimming, taekwondo, horse riding!! and all kinds of stuff. When I studied there was none of that

Expensive private schools. I also went to a private school run by Christian Missionaries , eventhough we had excellent library and labs, for outdoor sports the facilities provided were dismal.

 

[mfreak]

The girl clearly mentioned that swimming is not her problem, but swimming with 'bare-chested' boys is. If her problem was to wear the typical swim dress, then the ruling would have been fine (to cover-up and carry on with classes).

Thats what am saying dude. Its HER problem. The boys (who are kids too), dont have a problem. The other girls dont have a problem.

Secondly, WTF are you going on about "bare chested" boys? They are kids FFS. 12 yrs old!!! Big deal if the girl sees their bare chests. Such insane sexualization of simple activities like swimming is the problem.

First tell me where should those convert Germans should go which are converting to Islam in thousands every year and Muslims need to open up schools we have to raise our children in Islamic Environment and to integrate in society we can't become part of those things which are against Islam Sir

I dont think many are converting. But even if they convert, the same rules apply to them. Either, abide by the native culture, or migrate to some place where the culture suits you. Like one other poster said, today it will be swimming, tomorrow it will be workplace (men and women cant work together), then it will be that men and women cant date, have consensual sex outside of marriage or even go have a cup of coffee together, let alone get a beer (IN GERMANY!!!). It just shows that Islam is diagonally opposite western culture, and therefore these guys are the ones that are out of place. They just dont belong and go around causing problems. Like that moron Anjem Choudhary who eats because the British govt gives him welfare, YET he goes on rallies and yells "**** Britain". Pffft.

Sir that is exactly the problem the girl most probably meant if their would have been only girls she wouldn't have minded it but a Muslims lady can't take bath or even swim in front of Na Mehram Men that is strictly forbidden very strictly forbidden in Islam

Like I said, anyone that feels that such conservatism is necessary, shouldnt be in a liberal society like Germany. Move back to Morocco and cover up!

 

[Audio]

Swimming is the best workout you can have in a limited period of time-criteria which fits quite nicely into school hours. Whole body works and it develops muscles very very nicely.
If you ever seen a proffessional swimmer up close you'll get the idea.

Also the idea of separating Muslim girls and teaching them on their own time is so-so. Goes against intergration but i see how a short term solution like this would work.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The girl can refuse to swim on other grounds
Such as having phobia with water...

The lawyer was lame and useless. He could have bring up many otner reasons for the girl as it may be hard for a German court to understand what shame is.

The girl demanded that she skip swim classes on account of religion, which will never be held valid..
I am sure the lawyer would have considered other options, but i think the girls family option wanted it to be a religious one...

 

[mfreak]

as it may be hard for a German court to understand what shame is.

Oh please, grow the **** up. There is no shame in swimming in the same pool as boys. You cannot attempt to justify narrow mindedness by accusing someone of liberalism.

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

Pitiful, shameful comments by members on here who are twice or even three times this little girl's age. Imposing their beliefs and their views on how she should be acting and what she should and should not do. She is simply being asked to be excused from a swimming class. She is not asking for anything more. But of course members who do make these comments do suffer from self-image and infeority complexes.