Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

[chitti]

Epic , just EPIC !

what a troll this reply is. Now I know where the pak genes on pdf come from LOL

OK, I dont know how authentic this is.. A telegram , usually used for quick information conveying, in those days had extremely limited verbiage unlike the paragraph above. And next a telegram sent in mid 1940 was replied to in early 1941. Very weird.

Love Quaid-e-Azam soooo much... He was such a dignified, straight forward, honorable, person..... Loved his reply to Maulana Abul Kalam Azad... Has any one read Abul Kalam Azad's "India wins freedom"?...I have read it, and hate him since....He was truly "Shah se ziada Shah ka wafadaar".....In his book, when u read, he never once stood up for Muslims...He was even more congressi, than Gandhi, I would say.....He always went out of his way, to deny Muslim rights..just to prove, how "loyal" he was..to the Congress....Read his book India wins freedom, and u will exactly know, what I am talking abt...

Truly love Jinnah..cant describe in words, my love and respect for him...He had everything, u would want in a leader... Integrity, honesty, sincerety, dignity, courage, self respect, faith........ Look, at our situation right now.. Once we had him as our our Governor General and now we have Zardari as President...

What difference between jinnah and george bush then.. He is saying either you are with me or against me ! You cant hold an opinion that differs from me. This is inlaid in the Pak foundation and India is just the opposite. Time ahs proven that congress is not a hindu org neither is india a hindu country.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

Dude ..we've had a Hindu Chief Justice.. so what?
The population is increasing because people like to have sex.. its nothng to do with them being Muslims.
What is the president's actual governing power apart from being head of state..
We've had martial law presidents.. who actually could do something.. not that it was legal..
but in an actual democratic setup that India is.. what is a president if nothing more than a "showpiece" for the people.
My mother's uncle is in politics in UP dude.. he babbles on how he is sidetracked all the time due to both religious and racial reasons....how he doesn't actually have power..
Look at your own Kerala.. Muslims actually developed some sort of an identity there..
why was one section so successful but the rest could not match it.?
Majority perhaps?

pakistan is a perhaps a unique case where minorities population is not increasing in spite of having sex !! from 15 % to 3 %.

Hindu chief ministers vs Presidents comical....ahhh I forgot that you can't have hindu president or PM.

the thing about 1971 was it was racial cleansing along with minority cleansing, didn't your PA kill HIndus of Bangladesh ??

How about it ???

Pakistan has institutionalized discrimination against minority (blasphemy laws etc..) we provide them equal opportunity.

Did your uncle tell u that he wants to come in Pakistan ? I know for sure that hundreds of hindus migrate to India from pakistan every month. What does that prove ?? Love to hear from you .....

Pakistanis should be last people who should mince a word regarding minorities.

You didn't prove that he was a show man...as u blamed him..onus is on you to prove it.

 

[53fd]

A.Kalam Azad was the kind of man who was ready to 'submit', & make compromises to ensure communal harmony & for the overall good of society; whereas Jinnah believed in liberty & equality for all, regardless of "size", color, creed. Both secular approaches, but very different ones as they were.

Two very different approaches, I cannot say I do not, on some level, admire Azad sahab & his reconciliatory/appeasing approach for the overall good of society, in the larger context of Hindu-Muslim relations. But there was no doubt, that with people like Azad on the helm, we could see Indian Muslims being 'beaten down into the ground', as it is very evident in India today.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

A.Kalam Azad was the kind of man who was ready to 'submit', & make compromises to ensure communal harmony & for the overall good of society; whereas Jinnah believed in liberty & equality for all, regardless of "size", color, creed. Both secular approaches, but very different ones as they were.

Two very different approaches, I cannot say I do not, on some level, admire Azad sahab & his reconciliatory/appeasing approach for the overall good of society, in the larger context of Hindu-Muslim relations. But there was no doubt, that with people like Azad on the helm, we could see Indian Muslims being 'beaten down into the ground', as it is very evident in India today.

prove it.... he talked about the unity between hindu and muslim not for the submission of one community to the other which is the exact thing happening in Pakistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

A.Kalam Azad was the kind of man who was ready to 'submit', & make compromises to ensure communal harmony & for the overall good of society; whereas Jinnah believed in liberty & equality for all, regardless of "size", color, creed. Both secular approaches, but very different ones as they were.

And Pakistan is the epitome of that "liberty & equality for all"?

Or most Islamic countries in the world?

At any time in history?

Jaziyah, Dhimmi, booty! Do these words count as "liberty & equality for all" in your dictionary?

Two very different approaches, I cannot say I do not, on some level, admire Azad sahab & his reconciliatory/appeasing approach for the overall good of society, in the larger context of Hindu-Muslim relations. But there was no doubt, that with people like Azad on the helm, we could see Indian Muslims being 'beaten down into the ground', as it is very evident in India today.

I think it is impossible to satisfy you Arabs (and you remain an Arab even now).

You have a strange sense of entitlement that demands submission to you. You want others to submit to plunder and booty and pay you jaziyah and you want to live off that loot.

As it is not working out, you may consider returning back.

Sometimes, one tends to think that the Spain model of dealing with the Arab invaders was the right one.

They probably only understand that model.

 

[Vinod2070]

To compare the merchant muslims of Bosnia to Indian Muslims is an insult to Indian Muslims my friend.

Muslims in undivided India were Martial people who ruled India for over 1000 years. Why did we become so scared of being a huge 40% minority.

I can assure you 40% Muslims would not have faced any discrimination. Forty Percent of Population can bring the govt wheels to a screeching halt.

And that is all Maulana Azad was trying to point out.

Some factual mistakes.

Muslims were 25% at the time of partition.

Most Indian Muslims are converts from low castes (mostly Dalits), they are not "Martial people".

They never ruled anyone. They were the ruled either by invaders in some small parts or by the local Dharmic kings for the vast majority of the history of this land.

In fact, the whole period of Islamic invasions and rules over parts o India is like a minor blip in our great ancient history and civilization.

A blip that is gone now from the major portion of our Dharmic lands. We survived those barbarians and their depredations when many other great civilizations collapsed and were ruined.

May be Persian civilization will revive too soon. We hear that most people there are waking up from the long slumber and going back to their roots.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Sometimes, one tends to think that the Spain model of dealing with the Arab invaders was the right one.

I would say that the converts should be educated about the atrocities suffered by their ancestors, at the hands of invaders. They should come to come to terms with, and take pride in, their own Dharmic heritage.

I admire how the Mexicans use the the occasion of Columbus Day every year to commemorate and condemn the Holocaust perpetrated by the European colonizers.

 

[punit]

Idealogical differences are what make men..
One was convinced that a submissive bow to a majority was in the best interests of a minority..
the other showed how a minority need not live under a shadow as mice but face the sun as free human beings.

the bold part is important.. as idiots from both sides will come in and use bigotry to the hilt.

Jinnah Pakistan and its ideology failed in big way immediately after his death .. while Azad's vision of India continues to live despite all challenges.

 

[Hobo1]

Jinnah is real reason why Pakistan is in such a mess. Kalam Azad could forsee back then Pakistan would be able to sustain itself on its own and it would be a failure and so it has been.
It was Mr Jinnah who way back in 47 said this and invited America into Pakistan and rest is history.

"America needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs America," was Jinnah's reply. "Pakistan is the pivot of the world, as we are placed" -- he revolved his long forefinger in bony circles -- "the frontier on which the future position of the world revolves." He leaned toward me, dropping his voice to a confidential note. "Russia," confided Mr. Jinnah, "is not so very far away."

This had a familiar ring. In Jinnah's mind this brave new nation had no other claim on American friendship than this - that across a wild tumble of roadless mountain ranges lay the land of the BoIsheviks. I wondered whether the Quaid-i-Azam considered his new state only as an armored buffer between opposing major powers. He was stressing America's military interest in other parts of the world. "America is now awakened," he said with a satisfied smile. Since the United States was now bolstering up Greece and Turkey, she should be much more interested in pouring money and arms into Pakistan. "If Russia walks in here," he concluded, "the whole world is menaced."

In the weeks to come I was to hear the Quaid-i-Azam's thesis echoed by government officials throughout Pakistan. "Surely America will build up our army," they would say to me. "Surely America will give us loans to keep Russia from walking in." But when I asked whether there were any signs of Russian infiltration, they would reply almost sadly, as though sorry not to be able to make more of the argument. "No, Russia has shown no signs of being interested in Pakistan."

 

[genmirajborgza786]

And Pakistan is the epitome of that "liberty & equality for all"?

Or most Islamic countries in the world?

At any time in history?

Jaziyah, Dhimmi, booty! Do these words count as "liberty & equality for all" in your dictionary?



I think it is impossible to satisfy you Arabs (and you remain an Arab even now).

You have a strange sense of entitlement that demands submission to you. You want others to submit to plunder and booty and pay you jaziyah and you want to live off that loot.

As it is not working out, you may consider returning back.

Sometimes, one tends to think that the Spain model of dealing with the Arab invaders was the right one.

They probably only understand that model.

indeed it is..... but there is only one problem you see just when the revisionist marathas thought that they had would it takes to pull down a spain alas they got a terrible reality check at the hands of "Ahmed shah abdali" my friend you can talk all the talk but when the time came you miserably failed to walk the walk
kyun sahi bola na bhau....

 

[Porus]

A never-ending senseless debate. Instead of giving the justification of the creation of Pakistan to Indians and to themselves. the Pakistanis better work towards the political stability and economic development of their country.

 

[Manas]

Pakistanis just don't understand how indebted and thankful, Indians feel to Mr Jihhah inside their hearts for the creation Pakistan.

Due to the creation of pakistan ,we don't have to live with anather 40 crores more muslims dragging country in a different direction than what majority hindus want, creating an incredible mess and giving rise to thousand mutinies resulting in bi
bigger partitions and consequential bloodshed.


Partition was a natural outcome .Thanks to Jihanah for leading the cause.

 

[SR 71 Blackbird]

Some factual mistakes.

Muslims were 25% at the time of partition.

Most Indian Muslims are converts from low castes (mostly Dalits), they are not "Martial people".

They never ruled anyone. They were the ruled either by invaders in some small parts or by the local Dharmic kings for the vast majority of the history of this land.

In fact, the whole period of Islamic invasions and rules over parts o India is like a minor blip in our great ancient history and civilization.

A blip that is gone now from the major portion of our Dharmic lands. We survived those barbarians and their depredations when many other great civilizations collapsed and were ruined.

May be Persian civilization will revive too soon. We hear that most people there are waking up from the long slumber and going back to their roots.

The model demonstrated by Mongols under mighty Chengiz Khan and Hulagu Khan against Arabs were even more effective than that of Spaniards.

 

[Rig Vedic]

indeed it is but there is only one problem you see just when the revisionist marathas thought they had would it take to pull down a spain alas they got a terrible reality check at hands "Ahmed shah abdali" my friend you can talk all the talk but when the time came you miserably failed to walk the walk sahi bola na bhau....

And thereafter the Afghans were defeated by the Sikhs. Now Abdali's people in Afghanistan are our good friends ... the wheel of Time keeps turning, the story will go on.

A never-ending senseless debate. Instead of giving the justification of the creation of Pakistan to Indians and to themselves. the Pakistanis better work towards the political stability and economic development of their country.

True, this debate is rather unnecessary.

 

[Porus]

Most Indian Muslims are converts from low castes (mostly Dalits), they are not "Martial people".
.

It's true and most of them are proud to be Dalits.