Jinnah, secularism and Islamic modernism: YLH

[magra]

So what is your interpretation?
There was more to Indian subcontinent than just religious differences, the caste and social structure itself had the population divided, there is a reason why India in its current form didn't exist and historically religion plays only a small part of that reality.

You are correct that historically kingdoms were divided on other factors as well, and not just religion.
British did use all differences - religion, caste, language - to its disposal. Religion turned out to be the most potent tool. Obviously as a colonizing power, Britain did what was good for it.

 

[Invicta]

You are correct that historically kingdoms were divided on other factors as well, and not just religion.
British did use all differences - religion, caste, language - to its disposal. Religion turned out to be the most potent tool. Obviously as a colonizing power, Britain did what was good for it.

So I take it that you agree with my interpretation - that history has been distorted and the fantasy of a United India is a recent phenomena that has not been addressed by either the Pakistani side or the Indian side.

 

[El Sidd]

That Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a secular state is an undeniable fact whether Pakistanis or Indians deny it, for their own very different reasons.

It's not even an established conspiracy let alone fact.

Jinnah had written to Lord Mountbatten to make changes to Pakistani oath of office. He had asked for the reference to God to be removed from his oath of office and also that of the ministers.

The oath was to the Crown in Dominion of Pakistan.

Much of Jinnahs daily routine is well documented in a military fashion. I am sure such letters are there in the national archive for cross examination.

Then again contradicting Jinnah is a bit of a habit for Pakistanis. As I have written on numerous occasions, in 1944, in response to a question about Ahmadis, Jinnah had famously said “Who am I to declare someone a Non-Muslim, if he professes to be a Muslim”

ask a rhetorical question, get a rhetorical answer.

On 7 February 1935 Mr. Jinnah declared “religion is a matter merely between man and god and should never be allowed in politics”. This was a life long position.

by becoming leader of MUSLIM LEAGUE?

 

[magra]

So I take it that you agree with my interpretation - that history has been distorted and the fantasy of a United India is a recent phenomena that has not been addressed by either the Pakistani side or the Indian side.

United India is an idea born from common experience and common culture.
Those people who did not subsrcibe to this idea formed Pakistan.

 

[El Sidd]

United India is an idea born from common experience and common culture.
Those people who did not subsrcibe to this idea formed Pakistan.

United India is a foreign ideology.

Colonials and conquerors see India as one entity.

The Brahman class conquered India in 1947 as one entity.

Pakistanis don't subscribe to fallacies of lust and greed.

 

[magra]

United India is a foreign ideology.
Colonials and conquerors see India as one entity.
The Brahman class conquered India in 1947 as one entity.
Pakistanis don't subscribe to fallacies of lust and greed.

Foreigners dont care if India remains united or gets divided.
Pakistanis dont subscribe to the idea of United India and separated.

The rest of us believe in the ideology and will continue to believe so.
My last post on this topic before I get warned for derailing the thread.

 

[Hiptullha]

Foreigners dont care if India remains united or gets divided.

Hindu lie. The British spent the years in the run-up to partition begging Jinnah to reconsider because they preferred a united subcontinent for strategic reasons. Hindus often lament that had Jinnah died earlier, they likely wouldn't have to deal with partition because the British were very eager to hand off everything to the Congress and avoid seeing the subcontinent's military assets divided between two countries instead of one.

 

[El Sidd]

Foreigners dont care if India remains united or gets divided.
Pakistanis dont subscribe to the idea of United India and separated.

The rest of us believe in the ideology and will continue to believe so.
My last post on this topic before I get warned for derailing the thread.

you would understand the gravity of this when you move to South Africa like that naked fekir shot dead for being 10 mins late to a prayer.

 

[magra]

you would understand the gravity of this when you move to South Africa like that naked fekir shot dead for being 10 mins late to a prayer.

What are you actually trying to explain to me? Please say directly.

 

[El Sidd]

What are you actually trying to explain to me? Please say directly.

That you should balkanise and push for progressive human development if you are sincere to yourself and those around you.

 

[magra]

That you should balkanise and push for progressive human development if you are sincere to yourself and those around you.

Thanks but no thanks for your advice. Why dont you try your own advice instead. Break up into Balochistan, Sindh, Fata, Punjab, Gilgit-Baltistan, Pak Kashmir etc.

 

[Invicta]

Thanks but no thanks for your advice. Why dont you try your own advice instead. Break up into Balochistan, Sindh, Fata, Punjab, Gilgit-Baltistan, Pak Kashmir etc.

You are taking the wrong end of the stick, the discussion was on perceived notions around nation states as current media and wider population in Pakistan and India are led to believe.
No one is saying go divide yourself into smaller states back to how things were. The point is that the narrative of United India was a fantasy - at least historically. What you have now, you are free to keep.
Hope that explains.

 

[magra]

You are taking the wrong end of the stick, the discussion was on perceived notions around nation states as current media and wider population in Pakistan and India are led to believe.
No one is saying go divide yourself into smaller states back to how things were. The point is that the narrative of United India was a fantasy - at least historically. What you have now, you are free to keep.
Hope that explains.

I was just responding to El Sidd who said India should balkanize.

 

[El Sidd]

Thanks but no thanks for your advice. Why dont you try your own advice instead. Break up into Balochistan, Sindh, Fata, Punjab, Gilgit-Baltistan, Pak Kashmir etc.

220 million strong nation is manageable.

A mob of 1500 million is a nuisance.

 

[The Eagle]

NO more YLH BS here.