JF17 vs Mirage2000s plus Mig 27

[blueoval79]

All i wanted to remind you of was not to make fun of others, and stick to the topic, further more, who said this thread is meant to prove the superiority of JF17 over Mirage2000 and MIG27?

Just wait and watch...... You will see all pakistani posters shouting on top of their voices....JF is superior to this and that.......and what not.......

 

[Hayreddin]

simply JF 17 is superior from your 250 MIG 21(flying coffins) ,MIG 27 ,,,,,,

JF 17 can give tough time to MIG 29 and MIRAGE 2000.

But as we talk about SU 30 mki ,That bird superior in all fields from JF 17 .

to counter SU 30 MKI we have now F16 C/D..

 

[blueoval79]

simply JF 17 is superior from your 250 MIG 21(flying coffins) ,MIG 27 ,,,,,,

JF 17 can give tough time to MIG 29 and MIRAGE 2000.

But as we talk about SU 30 mki ,That bird superior in all fields from JF 17 .

to counter SU 30 MKI we have now F16 C/D..

Yups....superiority to Mig 21 .....an end of life fighter jet is something great.....and a commendable achievement..........
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And comparison with Mig 29....which is more than 2 decades old and still flies better than JF 17......sounds great for sure....
Mikoyan MiG-29 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hayreddin]

i used the word tough time not the comparison my dear

 

[Sapper]

Yups....superiority to Mig 21 .....an end of life fighter jet is something great.....and a commendable achievement..........
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And comparison with Mig 29....which is more than 2 decades old and still flies better than JF 17......sounds great for sure....
Mikoyan MiG-29 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What the hell is happening here ... this can be a very great thread ... instead, the Indians (I am sorry but you brought it upon yourself) are dragging it towards a dung fight ...

The things to compare here should have been.

1. Range, Refueling capabilities.
2. Loiter Time.
3. Stall Characteristics, AOA, stall recovery.
4. Low speed & High Speed maneuvering characteristics.
5. Weapon Stores.
6. AA Weapons.
7. Precision Guided Weapons.
8. Standoff Weapons.
9. Targeting Pods.
10. Radar Capabilities.
11. Night Capabilities.
12. Bad Weather Capabilities.
13. Data Links
14. Pilot Load.
15. Maintanance overhead.
16. Spare Parts.
17. Possible Upgrades.
18. Special Mission Characteristics, i.e. Recon, Interdiction, Point Defence.
19. Economy, cost of platform, cost of training, cost of maintenance, fuel usage
20. RCS, low altitude, high altitude, with and w/o jamming, etc.

This is not an IMPOSSIBLE comparison.
Either debate on this ... or get lost.

 

[blueoval79]

^^^^^


Read following posts... to figure out who started the dung throwing competition.....

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-vs-mirage2000s-plus-mig-27-a.html#post523251

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...s-mirage2000s-plus-mig-27-a-2.html#post524152


And the rest is response to these superior quality posts....

 

[Wingman]

come out of this comparison ...Mirage 2000 in service longer then 15 years , Mig27 going to see junkyard...what we are comparing ?

Are they going to compare PAST with the PRESENT. The present is always better than past because so much precise work is done by learning the mistakes from the past.

Though JF17 is a medium Tech. a/c but it will be used in multiple purposes in PAF.

 

[suleman yousaf]

listen plz dis topic is a very gud topic 4 discussion.bt im sorry 2 say sum of the ppl r relly misusing it by using deir own nationalist views.Whenever anythin new appears in any field fashion,food so naturally defence.JF-17 is a new plane.it has 2 prove itself.stop fightin n talk on facts.dont giv biased views about JF-17.da plane dat is being compared with mirage 2000 and MIG-27 is being compared with tejas,rafale,eurofighter and f-35!!!!!!!!!!plz dont stray from da topics.i plead da indian nt 2 present JF-17 inferior and inferior not even worth talkin.just talk facts in a friendly atmosphere.pakistandefence is a wonderful sites bcuz everyone can post views without abusive language.JF-17 is da pride of Pakistan.After nearly 2 decades pakistan have got another multirole fighter.it own.we hav a feelin 2wards it like a parent has 2ward its first born.any parent readin my post shall understand my meaning.

 

[zavis2003]

hm still no fruitfull discusssion i saw at this thread

actually india was proud to be have mirage2000 in kargil war for dead precision strikes while mig 29 and 21 were for defending skies with limited strike and mig 27 has no laser guided sys that time

now pak has a jf17 which has laser guided sys for presion strikes and now pak be proud over it having it after f16 and mirage roses

secondly jf17 is future and mirage2000 is not going to be retired from IAF soon
third both are multi role so it is more suuitable to compare both of them then with others
as both are now natural rivals as sub conti affairs concerns

and dont understimate the jf17 , it is bvr capable its has some weaknesses but weakness can be removed main thing is that plane should fly (i am here not refering the word FLY to LCA)

 

[zavis2003]

IAF Mirages will soon be upgraded when they will be made compatible to fire the Mica

JF-17 can fire SD-10 ABVRAAM


Well for starters, the JF-17 has more room for upgrades than the Mirage 2000-series, very basic.

In contrast to the initial Mirage 2000, the initial JF-17 is better in terms of radar, avionics, ECM/EW and weapon-systems. I base this on the fact that PAF chose F-16A/B over Mirage 2000 in the '80s; and subsequently the PAF itself saying that the JF-17's radar, avionics, ECM/EW, etc, being better than the basic Block-15. Secondly, you can take a look at the weapon-systems available to each fighter...JF-17 has SD-10 and Mirage 2000 had the Magic.

Nowadays it is pretty difficult to judge without knowing JF-17's specific systems. I'd say the Mirage 2000-5Mk2 and MLU/Block-52+ are superior to JF-17 Block-1. However the Block-II will be a different story as PAF was offered not only AESA radar, but the contemporary generation of ECM/EW as well as the MICA-IR/RF set of missiles. I'm pretty sure the sub-systems used on Mirage 2000-5Mk2 & even Rafale - as SAGEM offered Gerfaut HMD - can make their way to JF-17. The PAF is also looking at next-generation weapon-systems such as the MBDA Meteor and probably Denel T-Darter for use on JF-17. In fact, if we paid enough, Thales or SAGEM may also provide JF-17's ECM/EW kit with DRFM, something our F-16s will not have...and it's likely that the AESA radar and ECM/EW will be derived from Rafale, hence 4.5 gen tech. Already there are reports of JF-17's maintenance and operation being cheaper & friendlier than F-16...imagine if we got a better quality engine like EJ200 or M88-3 for Thunder. You can see by reading the first 4-5 pages of this document.
http://www.ideaspakistan.gov.pk/ideas2008/downloads/IDEAS2008_EventBulletin_2.pdf

So I would deduce that the 2nd batch of JF-17 would at least be electronically on par with Mirage 2000-5Mk2 & Block-52+, if not superior. In terms of range and payload, the Mirage and Falcon beat JF-17. Despite this, the JF-17 will be geared to carry out the same level of air-to-surface strikes with the use of precision guided bombs, AShMs and ALCMs. Besides, with more composites - lightweight & reduced RCS (stealthiness increased) - the JF-17 in future variants will have more range & payload, in fact plans are underway to allow it to have 9-hardpoints.

 

[circuitbaba]

Somebody Asked for comparsion
1. Range, Refueling capabilities. Mirage2000
2. Loiter Time: JF-17
3. Stall Characteristics, AOA, stall recovery. Mirage-2000
4. Low speed & High Speed maneuvering characteristics. : JF-17
5. Weapon Stores. Mirage 2000H
6. AA Weapons. JF-17
7. Precision Guided Weapons.JF-17: GBU-10,LS-6 satellite guided
8. Standoff Weapons. JF-17
9. Targeting Pods.Mirage-2000H
10. Radar Capabilities. Mirage-2000H
11. Night Capabilities. JF-17
12. Bad Weather Capabilities. Rougly same
13. Data Links JF-17
14. Pilot Load.JF-17
15. Maintenance overhead. JF-17
16. Spare Parts.JF-17
17. Possible Upgrades.JF-17
18. Special Mission Characteristics, i.e. Mirage-2000H
19. Economy, cost of platform, cost of training, cost of maintenance, fuel usage :JF-17
20. RCS, low altitude, high altitude, with and w/o jamming, etc. JF-17

The Comparison is 12-7 in favour of JF-17

 

[vnomadic]

Just wait and watch...... You will see all pakistani posters shouting on top of their voices....JF is superior to this and that.......and what not.......

What's with the sarcasm? If you don't like the thread or think its unrealistic, you can present your views in better manner.

 

[vnomadic]

Well for starters, the JF-17 has more room for upgrades than the Mirage 2000-series, very basic.

Room as in? Volume? I see no reason why the JF-17 should have more room for upgrades. .

In contrast to the initial Mirage 2000, the initial JF-17 is better in terms of radar, avionics, ECM/EW and weapon-systems. I base this on the fact that PAF chose F-16A/B over Mirage 2000 in the '80s; and subsequently the PAF itself saying that the JF-17's radar, avionics, ECM/EW, etc, being better than the basic Block-15.

Well its my understanding that the pricing rather than the capabilities of the Mirage 2000 was the prime motive behind picking the F-16 rather than the M2K. Even if we do assume that the F-16 was better value for money, it doesn't follow that it was a better aircraft. In any case the Mirage-2000H is due for a better intensive upgrade pending pricing finalisation(failing which the IAF will abandon plans to upgrade it or award it to Israelis and opt for two additional squadrons of the MMRCA aircraft).

Secondly, you can take a look at the weapon-systems available to each fighter...JF-17 has SD-10 and Mirage 2000 had the Magic.

Again the MICA will be mated to the M2K so that should even things out. The MICA will possibly outperform the SD-10, owing to its being a mature platform.

However the Block-II will be a different story as PAF was offered not only AESA radar, but the contemporary generation of ECM/EW as well as the MICA-IR/RF set of missiles. I'm pretty sure the sub-systems used on Mirage 2000-5Mk2 & even Rafale - as SAGEM offered Gerfaut HMD - can make their way to JF-17. The PAF is also looking at next-generation weapon-systems such as the MBDA Meteor and probably Denel T-Darter for use on JF-17. In fact, if we paid enough, Thales or SAGEM may also provide JF-17's ECM/EW kit with DRFM, something our F-16s will not have...and it's likely that the AESA radar and ECM/EW will be derived from Rafale, hence 4.5 gen tech. Already there are reports of JF-17's maintenance and operation being cheaper & friendlier than F-16...imagine if we got a better quality engine like EJ200 or M88-3 for Thunder. You can see by reading the first 4-5 pages of this document.

At this point nothing can be said with any degree of certainty about the succeeding JF-17 versions. In fact not much can be said with certainty about the current block of the JF-17 either. There isn't much verifiable information with regard to its sub-systems. I guess we'll have to wait and see.